Speaker 1: Not so long ago, we produced an episode called If Roe V. Wade Goes, What Next? Now, according to the draft Supreme Court opinion that was leaked last week, a majority of the justices want to end federally protected abortion rights altogether. The specific case being argued is known as Dobbs V. Jackson Women's Health Organization, and it will decide whether Mississippi officials can shut down the state's only remaining abortion provider.

Rachel Monroe: We are standing here on a beautiful Friday, outside the Jackson Women's Health Organization. It's funny to think that that all is going to center on this one building, which is a pretty unremarkable building, except for the fact that it is quite pink, it is a beautiful pale pink. I believe they call it the pink house. Yes, let's go in.

Speaker 1: As the case came before the Supreme Court last fall, our reporter Rachel Monroe visited Jackson Women's Health and she met the director, Shannon Brewer.

[crosstalk]

Rachel Monroe: Lovely office.

Shannon Brewer: You're okay. [unintelligible 00:01:14] right in. Hey, how are doing [unintelligible 00:01:15]?

Rachel Monroe: Shannon Brewer, she's the clinic director.

Shannon Brewer: We've been seeing a lot of patients this week. The Louisiana clinics are full, and then of course, with Texas, you got the SBA going on. Literally, the same week it came into effect, the very first day, our phones rang from eight o'clock until we left that day. It was Texas people and they were on panic mode. They were crying, they were upset, they were going through so much. Normally, we see patients three days a week, we're now seeing patients five and some weeks six days a week.

Rachel Monroe: Oh my gosh.

Shannon Brewer: Yes, for some weeks. I have been here, it's going to be 21 years. I started out part-time as a sterilization technician. It was like just another job, "Good, I got me a job, I'm happy." Once I started learning the political aspects of it, it changed to I'm a part of something that's a little bit deeper than just clocking in every day. A lot of women really don't know what's going on out here, they don't know about the fight, they don't know that we're dealing with these new laws that they're trying to put in place and we're fighting all of these laws. They're amazed by it.

Rachel Monroe: Can you talk a little bit about who are the patients who come here?

Shannon Brewer: We serve all types of women. There is no one type of women. Of course, because we're here in Jackson and we're the only facility in Mississippi, we do serve predominantly a lot of African American women here, a lot of women who are really struggling as far as healthcare and stuff like that, they all are really having issues with that. We serve a lot of those women, actually, we really do. Quick question. Rachel, it says-

Rachel Monroe: The New Yorker.

Shannon Brewer: -The New Yorker, and they want to know if you wanted to talk to them.

Speaker 4: I would prefer to remain anonymous.

Shannon Brewer: Yes. Most of our doctors do.

Rachel Monroe: That's totally fine.

Speaker 4: I've been coming here to Jackson Women's Health Organization for almost three years.

Rachel Monroe: Can you, I guess, maybe talk about some of the security stuff that you have to do, even just that you were trying to figure out today?

Speaker 4: Yes. For safety purposes, we always use a rental car so that our personal car isn't able to be tracked or located. Just with the history of violence against abortion providers in this country, we try to take every precaution to be as safe as possible. Actually, back in March of this year, my identity was somehow made known to the protestors and then they ended up harassing the clinic where I work. That made me stop coming here for a little while and then I ultimately found a new job, so I'll be leaving Mississippi-

Rachel Monroe: Oh gosh.

Speaker 4: -but continuing to come here.

Rachel Monroe: What are you thinking about and watching with this Supreme Court case that centers on this clinic? A 15-week ban, what is that? I guess, as a medical professional, is there any scientific basis to that as a--

Speaker 4: Absolutely not. It's basically just drawing a line in the sand. In general, first trimester abortions are a little bit safer than second trimester abortions, but all abortions are much safer than carrying a pregnancy to term. Pretending like this is in a woman's best interest is just a farce.

Speaker 5: Ma'am, they just want to kill your baby. You got a little woman or a little man that deserves to live.

Rachel Monroe: The first patients of the day are starting to leave the clinic, a hectic vibe here at the pink house.

Speaker 6: [inaudible 00:05:09] For these innocent little children who are having to die at the murderous knife of this abortionist doctor and all of these evil wicked supporters, Father, Lord Jesus, I pray that you would just open the floodgates of terror in such a way that it would help them see that they are going to die and go to hell if they do not trust you as their Lord and Savior. Lord, that there would be--

Rachel Monroe: I'm wondering if I could see the literature that you're handing out to folks.

Speaker 4: Yes, sure.

Speaker 7: I was just telling John about this campaign that Live Action [unintelligible 00:05:50], what is 2363.

Rachel Monroe: What is 2363?

Speaker 7: It's the average number of babies that are aborted in America every day. Our thing is, scientifically, DNA says it's a human being from the very beginning of conception. Now, it might not look like you and me, but it is a human being. At what point is it okay to abort that? 20 weeks, where they've got some hair and eyelashes and everything's working everything's present? It's just a matter of, do you believe that it's a human being from the beginning or not? We do.

Rachel Monroe: How long have you been coming out here? How long have you been up to this?

Speaker 7: I think about 12 years.

Rachel Monroe: Oh gosh. Wow. Are you paying attention to the Mississippi law that's now being heard by the Supreme Court case? Oh, you're smiling at that.

[laughter]

Speaker 7: I can I say I don't have time to really-- My heart is here. My heart is trying to help women here. I do pray that Roe V. Wade gets overturn. I would love to see it go back to each individual state. I think that's where it belongs.

Rachel Monroe: If this clinic does get shut down because whatever happens in the courts, do you all get to retire or you move on to-- What happens next?

Speaker 7: There's still going to be women to help and babies to help. I would love to see us have maternity centers ring up, where we could minister to these women mind, body, and soul.

Speaker 8: I know everybody's outside picketing and wanting me to love your child. I do love the child that I have, but I just don't feel like I can go on with the pregnancy. What brought me here are the severe laws in Texas. I had to drive here to be able to make my own decision as a woman. This clinic is a lifesaver. I am extremely sick. I am not able to function. I'm not able to drink any water and I'm not able to hold any food down. I'm not able to care for my other child. It's just not ideal for me to have another kid.

Rachel Monroe: Did you come here from Texas?

Speaker 8: I did. I'm from here, I'm from Mississippi. I just live there, better opportunities, living a better life with my kid, but I'm so glad to be able to come home and do this. That's it. I'm married. It's not like I'm having a kid and my husband doesn't know, it's by somebody I'm just randomly having sex with. No, we are both business owners, we're married and we know the type of life we want to live. We don't want a bunch of kids. I can't handle it, my body can't handle it, and it's a decision we made.

Rachel Monroe: What impact did the Texas law have on your life?

Speaker 8: I couldn't make my own decision. I feel like that's taken away from me. I feel like somebody else is telling me what I should do with my body and it's not right. It's my body, it's my decision, it's my choice, it's my life. It's my soul if it's going to heal. I just feel like they don't have the right to do that, especially a man, you all have to do nothing. We have to do everything, and you have a decision on what I'm going to do? I think not. I drove all night. I left at 2:30 in the morning with my six and three-quarter year old. We drove all night, dropped him off with grandma. I'm here and I don't feel bad one bit about it.

Rachel Monroe: Thank you so much for sharing that.

Speaker 8: No problem

Rachel Monroe: Have a good day, everybody. Appreciate you. Thank you for letting me to come in and bother you. Do you think there's a chance that you all will have to close?

Shannon Brewer: I don't see us closing, but we don't know. Like I said, this is probably the first time when people ask me about it that I don't have a definite answer because of the fact that it's the Supreme Court took it, because I still can't believe it. I'm usually like, "No, we're going to fight this today, and we're going to do this, we're going to do this." This time, you really don't know what's going to happen.

Rachel Monroe: Are you going to go for the arguments? Are you going to go up there?

Shannon Brewer: Yes. We're going.

Rachel Monroe: That must be-- If it goes not in your favor, then it's like the case has the name of this clinic. Does that bother you at all or is that all good?

Shannon Brewer: No, that doesn't bother me the fact that it has the name of the clinic, because whichever direction it goes in, every pro-choice person in America, they'll know that we were here and we fought all the way to the end. They will know that we were here for them at all times. I don't have a problem with that at all.

Rachel Monroe: If they rule in a way that's not in your favor, then what happens next?

Shannon Brewer: The next day is, we figure out how to help women in whatever way we can. The next step is not to just, "We lost." The next step is always, "How do we make this work?" That's what women do, we figure out how to make something work.

[music]

Speaker 1: That's Shannon Brewer at the Jackson Women's Health Organization, speaking last November. Last week, after the draft opinion from the Supreme Court was made public, Brewer said that the clinic might relocate to New Mexico if abortion in Mississippi is criminalized.

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