Speaker 1: Two weeks ago supporters of abortion rights won a surprise victory maybe the first victory of the post Roe era. It was in Kansas, not a state normally known for its progressive politics. A proposed constitutional amendment would've allowed state lawmakers to enact a total ban on abortion, but it was defeated by a very wide margin. Democrats around the country of course, wanted to know how they did it. The ads featured voters in Kansas, like a woman who identifies herself as a Catholic grandmother.

Catholic grandmother: It could ban any abortion in Kansas, even when a mother's life is on the line or with rape or incest. If it were my granddaughter, I wouldn't want the government making that decision for her. Vote no.

Speaker 1: An interesting twist to the pro-choice messaging is that they borrowed a familiar theme from conservatives, government overreach.

Speaker 2: This confusing constitutional amendment is a slippery slope for Kansas. It gives government more power over your privacy and your personal medical decisions. Don't let politics--

Speaker 1: Peter Slevin covered the Kansas vote and he talked about the politics of privacy with Ashley All, a spokesperson for the coalition called Kansans for Constitutional Freedom.

Peter Slevin: Did you ever think as a Democrat, you'd be running an anti-government overreach campaign?

Ashley All: No, but I think it's actually like a much more complicated message. If you think about some of the slogans for pro-choice organizations bands off my body, my body my choice, those are absolutely variations on the same topic and we can talk about personal freedom, equal rights and personal liberty and those are all absolutely values that Democrats share, moderate share, progressive share.

Peter Slevin: We'd love to talk about the ads, tell us what the process was in choosing the characters for the ads.

Ashley All: I think for us it was really critical that we find diverse messengers for a lot of these ads. We wanted to make sure that people could see themselves or really identify personally with either the individual who is in the ad or the situation. That is really what we focused on and we were able to work with folks from communities across the state to participate.

Peter Slevin: Let's hear one of those ads

Ad: As a pastor for over 50 years, I council and pray with individuals facing difficult personal decisions. Sometimes those conversations are about abortion. As Christians we are instructed to love one another. We do so when we respect and trust women as God does. I'm voting no on the proposed amendment because it replaces religious freedom with government control. It restricts women's rights and it puts their very lives at risk. Join me in thousands of Christians in voting no.

Peter Slevin: What was your thinking Ashley in that message and in choosing a retired pastor to deliver it?

Ashley All: In Kansas, it was really important for us to have someone of the faith community participate in these ads because for a lot of Kansans that is core to who they are and for us, we wanted to make sure that people of faith understood that you could both be religious or be spiritual, but also support access to abortion. We actually released a long list of pastors and clergy from numerous denominations who supported access to abortion and we are encouraging people to vote no.

Peter Slevin: Let's listen to another one and perhaps you can tell us the backstory.

Ad: They call it a constitutional amendment, the truth it's a strict government mandate designed to interfere with private medical decisions, a slippery slope that could put more of your individual and personal rights at risk. The ballot language is confusing, but one thing is clear, Kansans don't want another government mandate so on August 2nd, send a message, say no to more government control, vote no on changing the constitution.

Peter Slevin: Now that ad doesn't mention the word abortion, why did you do that?

Ashley All: I'm not sure that that was particularly intentional with that ad. I really think that we were focusing on the government interference portion of it. This definitely picked up on some cultural cues that really resonated with Kansas voters and things that they were concerned about and were an easy way to demonstrate just how problematic government interference with personal decisions can be.

Peter Slevin: Just to be clear those cultural cues, what visuals stood out in that ad to you?

Ashley All: We were just talking about faith and there was, I think, a sign that says something about churches being closed and mask mandates and things like that. We were intentional about that and I think for some Kansans that was something that they did not care for. Other Kansans, I think were less bothered by it but for us we wanted to make sure that we were connecting with a broad set of voters across the political spectrum who had differing opinions on government interference with private medical decisions.

Peter Slevin: In devising this ad campaign, you got a lot of attention. There was an extraordinary amount of coverage of what went on in Kansas and I understand that you have heard from advocates and people working on campaigns in other states who want to know what you've learned and what they might be able to use. I believe Kentucky was one of those.

Ashley All: Absolutely. There has been an incredible amount of outreach to us about what we did here and how unique it was, how successful it was. One of the things that we really learned and I found maybe the most interesting was when you talk to real people about this issue it is not partisan. It is something that people find to be incredibly personal, incredibly complicated.

To some it's a private medical decision, to others it's a moral and religious issue and so you have to be able to have a conversation where you give people space to have their own personal views, but also at the same time ensuring that they want to join you in supporting access and protecting constitutional rights for their neighbors to make these decisions for themselves.

Speaker 1: Peter Slevin is based in Chicago and you can find all his reporting on the Kansas Vote and much more at newyorker.com.

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