David Remnick: The President continued his frenetic campaign last week to bolster Republican candidates in states where they should be coasting. He was in South Carolina, in Iowa, Florida, Kansas. Those would have been unthinkable for Democrats even a year ago. In Texas, Democrat James Talarico is maintaining a slight lead in the Senate race. Now, if you're following the state, you might say, well, that's only because Talarico's opponent, Ken Paxton, has a huge pile of baggage behind him. There might be some truth in that.

Take a look at the governor's race. A Democrat, Gina Hinojosa, is running neck and neck with Republican Greg Abbott, all within the margin of error. Abbott is a three-term incumbent. He's known for flying migrants on chartered planes to Chicago and New York, a move that gained him a lot of attention. Texas favors Republicans, of course, and has for a long time. Gina Hinojosa is leading among independents by as much as 23% in one poll. She served in the Texas Legislature from 2017 from a district in Austin. If elected governor, she'd be the third woman ever to govern Texas and the very first in more than 30 years.

We spoke this past week. You come from a very big political family. Your dad was big in Democratic politics in the state of Texas. You seem to be on the brink of, in your own race, the possibility of winning the governorship and James Talarico winning a Senate seat in Texas. This would represent a real earthquake. What happened causing the eclipse, and why are you on the ascent now?

Gina Hinojosa: I frankly haven't been engaged in politics to know enough about what happened. I can tell you why we're on the ascent. I can tell you the reason I didn't want my husband to run for office is because I grew up in a political family, and I didn't want that for my family. I wanted to escape that. I knew how to make change happen through politics because I grew up seeing it happen. That's how I got where I am, really, is trying to make those changes happen. It was always public schools that drove my work. Really, being a mother and knowing that I had to do everything that was in my power to make this world better for my sons.

David Remnick: I think some outsiders would say that James Talarico is ahead in the polls, not least because he's facing a pretty inept opponent. How would you assess your own opponent who's ahead in some polls and you're ahead in some polls? It seems very, very tight. In terms of the qualities of Abbott and Paxton, I think I'd rather be running against Paxton. Where do you find difficulty running against the current governor?

Gina Hinojosa: The current governor is deeply unpopular in Texas. People now have seen the in-our-face corruption. He's given a billion dollars in no-bid contracts to his donors. I just filed a lawsuit this week because he's refused to release emails between himself and Elon Musk. Elon Musk has given just to Greg Abbott's campaign a $500,000 and has received 1.7 billion in property tax breaks, tens of millions of dollars in just cash grants.

Over the summer, we learned that Greg Abbott intervened to redirect a $100 million broadband contract to Elon Musk's business. Data centers have emerged as an in-our-face physical manifestation of that reality. There's no bigger pushback against data centers than MAGA. These data centers have descended into rural Texas. We have more data centers than any state in the nation. It's created a real opportunity.

That and public schools, again, have created this opportunity for Texans to set aside partisanship and evaluate a candidate on that candidate's own merits. I think at a time when Texans are frustrated, frankly, with both parties, there is an opportunity to forge a new way forward that is free of that partisanship.

David Remnick: How has the state changed, demographically or otherwise, in the last decade or more, to help the Democrats in some way?

Gina Hinojosa: The Latino vote has grown tremendously. We saw the Latino vote went for Trump last time. That is--

David Remnick: That was my next question.

Gina Hinojosa: Yes, yes, right. There's no guarantee Latinos will vote for Democrats, but Latinos are voting for a candidate who is good for their pocketbooks, a candidate who facilitates an environment for prosperity. In this high-cost economy, what we're hearing on the ground across the state is that Latinos are angry and want change.

David Remnick: They're angry for economic reasons, not because of immigration policy.

Gina Hinojosa: Both. It's both. Yes, absolutely, because of the high-cost economy. It's also because we are a deeply patriotic people, and we have racial profiling happening in Texas. We had two young men on their way to enlist in the Marines in South Texas, where I'm from, be pulled over and beaten by ICE. We've had Latinos who are undocumented killed by ICE in Texas. We had an American, the first ICE killing under Trump in this term happened in South Texas.

There is anger, there is fear. Many of us come from mixed-status families. My own mother was born in Mexico. My grandmother never became a citizen. These ICE raids are literally hitting home. While we all want border security, strong border security, these ICE raids are making us less secure, not more secure. Most people in Texas don't believe we should be treating people who have been in our communities, who are part of our communities and have been for 20 years, who are law-abiding, hard-working members of our communities. We shouldn't be treating them like we're treating somebody who's just crossed the border and should be thoroughly vetted. There should be a path to legalization that doesn't currently exist for so many members of our families.

David Remnick: Tell me this. Greg Abbott is outspending you by a tremendous rate. How can you overcome that imbalance? What I assume is a pretty significant imbalance in terms of money. With just a couple of weeks to go.

Gina Hinojosa: We don't have to spend as much as Greg Abbott does, because what you do with campaign cash is you tell people who you are and what you're about. That's actually his problem. People know who he is, what he is about. His name idea is something like 98% of Texan.

David Remnick: What is yours?

Gina Hinojosa: Mine now is probably hovering around 80. When I launched, it was probably under 20%. We spent this year just working hard, reaching Texas voters, crisscrossing the state several times over. We made up that gap. That's why the polling has gone from having us 9 to 10 points down when I launched to having me-- now we got six polls in five weeks that show me beating Greg Abbott, but we haven't had a poll in the last two months that had me outside the margin of error. You're right, it is neck and neck, and it's all about turnout.

David Remnick: Texas has 4 of the 10 biggest cities in America. California has only two. New York has my own humble city. How does the urban-rural divide play out in a state like Texas electorally, politically, culturally?

Gina Hinojosa: Texas is a country, right? Our size and diversity is like that of a nation. It has been the source of political and partisan division. Democrats have wondered for years, how do we do better in rural Texas, for instance? Really, it is this environment we're operating in, where data centers and public schools loom so large in rural Texas that is helping Democrats, helping me to be given a chance in this race by Republicans in rural Texas.

It's the same language, frankly. The way I describe my politics is economic populism. That is the same message that motivates urban voters versus rural voters. People want a leader, a governor who will work to make their lives easier. Nobody in 2026 in Texas has the luxury of fighting culture wars. We've been doing that for 10 years, and we're all worse off in Texas. The only winners of the culture wars are 15 billionaire tech dudes.

By the way, you should know that populism has its roots in Texas. LBJ's grandfather was part of the Farmers' Alliance that organized against big railroads. In much the same way, it is this power imbalance we're experiencing in Texas between the people, which is 99% of us, and tech giants. At this moment in time, it is the same message that has appeal across party lines.

David Remnick: As an editor, I was just reading a piece that one of our reporters did in the state of Alaska, and the report he's written is basically telling me that we may think we know something about Alaska, but that Senate race there is all about, wait for it, king salmon and the disappearance of that fish. It means that much economically and culturally to those-- what is it? 750,000 Alaskans. What is it that we in New York or California or Chicago who are interested from a distance about what's going on in Texas politics, what are we missing? What is really at the center of the political conversation in Texas?

Gina Hinojosa: It is a fear of a future where we don't have control. Young people in Texas fear opportunities in light of AI and advancements. I come across young people who can't even apply for a job because they are blocked by an AI interview system, and they're trying to figure out how to hack the algorithm to get their application through to be able to be considered for a job. There is an economic frustration and anger, and anxiety about the future, and about the present, frankly.

I'm coming across Texans who are having to donate plasma two to three times a week to have enough money to pay their bills. Middle-class Texans, teachers--

David Remnick: They're giving blood?

Gina Hinojosa: They're donating plasma, yes, to be able to make ends meet.

David Remnick: Are you in agreement with somebody like Bernie Sanders who thinks there should be an extended moratorium where AI and data centers are concerned?

Gina Hinojosa: My position is there should be a moratorium until we can pass laws to protect Texans. What it is not for is to replace human beings. It is not to replace teachers. It is not to replace nurses. It should not be making life-and-death decisions. It should not be blocking opportunities for jobs. I was in Amarillo, the panhandle of Texas, where they are building the world's largest data center. It's called Project Matador. It is on state land. The biggest investors are former governor Rick Perry and his son.

They negotiated a deal with the municipal water authority to get all of their water for the largest data center in the world from the municipal water source in an area that struggles with drought pretty regularly. At a community meeting, residents asked the spokesperson for Amarillo Water, "What happens if there is drought and there's not enough water for both the data center and the people? What do you do?" When I say there are no protections right now in Texas, there's nothing.

David Remnick: I want to dig into immigration again. Greg Abbott might be most memorable for our listeners for his plan to send more than 100,000 migrants to Sanctuary cities. You remember that well. Did Texas Republicans see that as effective immigration policy? How is Operation Lone Star, as it was called-- how is that viewed by Texans today?

Gina Hinojosa: There are mixed reviews on Operation Lone Star. It was very expensive. Just financially--

David Remnick: How did you view it?

Gina Hinojosa: As a boondoggle, frankly. We spent billions of dollars prosecuting immigrants who were charged with trespassing and detaining these immigrants. We spent the same amount of money paying for their defense because that is the law. The vast majority of them were released from detention and back out into the community. We applied for 11 billion in reimbursement. We spent so much more than that. I think we just got a $7 billion check from the federal government. Much of this money spent in no-bid contracts, much of it to Greg Abbott's donors. It was a whole dog-and-pony show political theater to achieve nothing. Border crossings are significantly down. It's not because of Greg Abbott. It's because of Donald Trump, frankly.

David Remnick: You're giving Donald Trump some credit here?

Gina Hinojosa: I think it would be hard to claim that Donald Trump isn't the reason why crossings are down. I will tell you the way I dealt with border security issues in Biden's-- The December before his last year in office, I got a call from one of our border members in Eagle Pass who said, "Gina, this is the week before Christmas. They have shut down the international bridge to all commerce. We rely on that commerce to get us through the year. I need help." I called the Biden administration. We got on the phone. We had our border members on with the Biden administration. They heard an earful.

The next week, the Biden administration sent a delegation to Mexico to begin enforcing border security on the Mexican side. Crossings plummeted. If you check the numbers, crossings plummeted. Now, that wasn't spending billions of dollars that wasn't this whole political theater dog and pony show. That was about old-school, old-fashioned leadership where you just talk to people, you roll up your sleeves, and you get things done.

David Remnick: According to a new Marist poll, 61% of likely Texas voters say that undocumented immigrants should stay in the United States if they meet certain requirements. 35% say they should leave. Mass deportations have been a big part of the Trump brand, the Republican policy in the last couple of years. Is the mood shifting?

Gina Hinojosa: I don't know if the mood has shifted, but I just think people did not think border security was what is happening now with these ICE raids where people are being killed. Public safety should be nonpartisan. Public safety should be about keeping everybody safe. What is happening is not that. It is distorted into something else entirely. Most Texans know it, and they see it, and they don't like it. I think what you're seeing is just a reaction to a policy that is an abuse of people's rights and that is, frankly, a security threat to each and every one of us in Texas.

David Remnick: Gina Hinojosa, a Democrat, is running to be governor of Texas. We'll continue with our conversation in just a moment. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour.

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David Remnick: This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick, and I'm speaking with Gina Hinojosa, the Democratic candidate for governor of Texas. She's running a very close race against the incumbent Republican, Greg Abbott. Hinojosa is a civil rights lawyer and entered politics on the Austin school board. She's been in the state legislature for five terms and was one of a number of Democratic lawmakers who fled the state in 2025, trying to delay passage of a new voting map, a maneuver known as a quorum bust, a move that made national headlines, though it failed to stop the new map from being voted in.

Has gender played a role in your race against Governor Abbott? Texas, obviously, has had Ann Richards in the past as governor. It's not unknown, however rare. Is there any dynamic there?

Gina Hinojosa: My role as a mother is something that many mothers identify with, PTA moms, whether they're Democrats or Republicans. In fact, it is my role as a mother that drove my education policy. I've always come to education policy from the perspective of a mother. In that way, over the last 10 years, I have formed alliances and even friendships with MAGA moms, who see in my fight for public school-- I still have a son in public school who see, in my fight for public Schools, the same thing they want for their kids because MAGA moms love their kids too. They want a good education for their children as well.

David Remnick: Where do you find common ground with MAGA moms or dads or whatever, and where is it less possible?

Gina Hinojosa: When I was in Red Oak, Texas, where they're fighting seven data centers that are coming into their community, we had conversations about culture war issues. They knew they had been sold out by Greg Abbott on data centers, but they weren't sure about me because I'm a Democrat. They asked to meet with me, and it was really a privilege to engage in conversation. They asked me about do I support constitutional carry? I responded. I said, "No." I said, "What you call constitutional carry, I call permitless carry."

I think people should have a background check to carry again. I voted against that. I voted against what you call constitutional carry. They asked me about Sharia law, and I said, "Well, I don't really know what Sharia law is."

David Remnick: What does that term stand for? In other words, when somebody from MAGA says, "I'm worried about Sharia law," what, in your interpretation, do they mean or think they mean?

Gina Hinojosa: I think they think it means a religious law that is not their religion that would supersede American and Texas law. What I told them was, I'm for American law, I'm for Texas law. I don't really know what Sharia law is, but I don't want Muslim Texans to be painted with it and be discriminated against.

David Remnick: This fear is coming from somewhere, and sitting in Texas as you are, where is it coming from?

Gina Hinojosa: It's being driven by our leaders. It is being driven by Greg Abbott, is being driven by elected leaders who have really turned the culture wars into this way to distract away from people's economic struggles. When I sat down with these people and I said, "This is my fear," they said, "No, we don't mean regular Muslims." I think maybe I moved them. I think they might have when we first started that conversation. I think they moved me because I said, "Well, I'll learn about what Sharia law is."

They said, "You need to know about Sharia." I said, "Okay, fine, I'll learn about what Sharia law is." We agreed that these culture wars have been tearing us apart. The culture wars are not winnable because the culture wars are about our differences. They are about our lived experiences. In that way, they are not winnable.

David Remnick: Let me ask you about the struggle within the Democratic Party itself. You described yourself as an economic populist, but at the same time, I don't hear you associating yourself with the DSA stream of the Democratic Party. How would you place yourself in that battle for ideas and politics at the Democratic Party?

Gina Hinojosa: I think the reason young people in parts of the country are souring on capitalism is because the capitalism they experience is this crony capitalism. It is not the pure and original capitalism that my grandfather built a business in.

David Remnick: What kind of business did your granddad build?

Gina Hinojosa: He had a plant in a seed business, and he supported our entire family with the income he made on that business. Now my uncles run that business. Our small businesses are really struggling to hang on. Sometimes it's because government is subsidizing these big multinational corporations that are putting our small businesses out of business. Yes, people are soured on that. I think that is what is missing in this political debate, that capitalism, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. It can be a good thing. It used to be a good thing in this country. It's just that it has been so distorted.

David Remnick: Would you agree that the most outstanding or glaring example of crony capitalism is the President of the United States himself, especially in this second term?

Gina Hinojosa: Yes. It's bad. It's bad. I will tell you also, Greg Abbott has been engaging in crony capitalism for a long time.

David Remnick: It sounds to me your eagerness to discuss Greg Abbott is understandable. You're running against Greg Abbott, but you don't seem to want to dwell too much on Donald Trump. Am I wrong?

Gina Hinojosa: When I started this campaign, I made sure my whole staff understood we have one enemy. It is Greg Abbott. I've spent a year focused on Greg Abbott. I will say, listen, I have to win Trump voters to win this race. Latinos went for Trump in Texas last year.

David Remnick: It's dangerous, a little bit, for you to attack Donald Trump in a way, while running for governor of Texas.

Gina Hinojosa: People are angry at Donald Trump and again, maybe regret their support of him. I don't think it is helpful to rub their noses in his failures. I think at a time when most Texans, probably most Americans, are recognizing that it's really, really bad, we need to bring those people along and say there's a better way forward. It's a way forward that is maybe even almost post-partisan, where, because of the disappointments in both parties, because, let's be honest, while it's nowhere near as blatant as Donald Trump's corruption, corporate influence has corrupted both political parties.

David Remnick: Can you give me an example on the Democratic side?

Gina Hinojosa: I can give you examples of elected Democratic leaders who will grandstand on culture war issues only to vote with corporate interests again and again. I won't name names because--

David Remnick: Why not?

Gina Hinojosa: [laughs] Because, again, David, I have one enemy in this race.

David Remnick: You're holding fire. For years we've been looking at Texas politics and thinking, "Well, here comes Beto O'Rourke. Now Charlie Brown is finally going to kick the football right through the goalposts." The Democratic Party is going to make a big comeback in the state of Texas. Then Lucy pulls the football away and Beto O'Rourke loses and loses again. Give me your prediction for what's going to happen on election day.

Gina Hinojosa: I am Catholic, Mexican, superstitious, so I don't want to jinx myself, but I will tell you that I'd rather be sitting where we are than where Greg Abbott is right now. The difference between where Beto was in 2018, when we came so close, is that even Beto will tell you he thinks he would have won had he had a strong candidate running for governor. We have a ticket this year. We've had in the past Beto, or Colin Allred. We've had one star, but not a ticket. We have for the first time, not just me and James Talarico, we have Democrats running every up and down the ballot in every state. House seat, state Senate seat, congressional seat. We haven't had that in 50 years in Texas.

David Remnick: What I'm hearing is a prediction for a blue wave in the state of Texas.

Gina Hinojosa: I think there's no doubt a blue wave is coming, and our job is to maximize it because it's an opportunity of a generation, really. This is not going to be a normal election cycle. People are angry at status quo. For good reason. Yes, we have an opportunity to win that, if we don't, they're never going to let us get this close again, I will tell you. We know here in Texas that Republicans are already planning to redraw congressional maps next year now that the US Supreme Court has gutted the Voting Rights Act.

David Remnick: For the Democrats, an optimistic prediction from you, followed by a very gloomy one, it sounds.

Gina Hinojosa: When they redraw maps, when it's all said and done, we'll lose 10 Democrats from Congress because we'll lose five next year. Two years later, the U.S. census will show Texas gains another four to five seats bause we're growing faster than all the other states. When that happens, that's about 10 seats off the table for Democrats in Congress. There is no Democratic control of Congress when that happens. Texas becomes too big. The math no longer works, and those are the stakes. We need a governor in Texas who will veto rigged maps whether they are rigged for Republicans or rigged for Democrats. I will be that governor.

David Remnick: Thank you so much.

Gina Hinojosa: Thank you.

David Remnick: Gina Hinojosa is the Democratic candidate for governor of Texas.

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