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Melissa Harris-Perry: Hey, y'all. It's The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry.

Tariq the "Corn Kid": For me, I really like corn.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: What do you like about corn?

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It's corn, a big lump with knobs.

It has the juice,

It has the juice.

I can't imagine a more beautiful thing.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Do y'all remember this viral moment from last summer?

Tariq the "Corn Kid": I mean, then look at this then. I can't imagine a more beautiful thing. It's corn. Look at this.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Oh, it is pretty hard to forget Tariq the "Corn Kid" from the popular digital series, Recess Therapy. It's an interview-style show where kids hold the spotlight and talk about everything from their favorite foods.

Tariq the "Corn Kid": Big lump with knobs. It has the juice. It's the part that mostly makes me like the corn.

Melissa Harris-Perry: To the candid ways they experience and understand the world around them.

Child 1: The internet is good because knowledge is power, and power is powerful because you can look up the answers to your math homework.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Have you done that?

Child 1: No. Just one time.

Melissa Harris-Perry: They share some wholesome advice for strangers.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: What do you want to say to all the weird kids?

Tariq the "Corn Kid": I want to say stay weird. That's how you stay cool because once you're weird, you get cool when you're older.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Today, we are talking with the person who holds the microphone and conducts all those memorable interviews.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Hey there, my name is Julian Shapiro-Barnum. I'm a comedian and the creator and host of Recess Therapy.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Welcome to The Takeaway, Julian.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

Melissa Harris-Perry: There is wild excitement just shooting through The Takeaway community, family, friends, because we are hype about talking to you. Everybody wants me to start with one moment in particular, and that is corn.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Oh, it is the thing, the Recess Therapy's thing. That was our biggest interview that we've ever done on the show and it totally shocked us all, I think I can say.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. What do you think it was about this kid who loves corn, who has this adorable childhood mispronunciation of corn because he's, if I remember right, toothless, basically because of being that age when you lose all your teeth, and then they all grow back?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: I think it was just this interesting thing where his absolute honest and unfiltered joy for something very sweet and simple, really touched people. I think people were just so happy to see him so happy and it somehow flourished into this big TikTok sound and song. It was this really exciting moment where people were just celebrating this kid for being a really positive person. It was a very special and sweet experience.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love that language, that it's sweet, it's earnest at a time when we traffic so much, and particularly in social media, in the opposite of being earnest, sweet, just genuinely enthusiastic. Talk to me about the initiation of Recess Therapy, which was during the pandemic when maybe we needed a little bit of good news. What did you mean by Recess Therapy in that context?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: I mean, what you just said about the internet not always being such a sweet and positive place was something that I was definitely thinking about when I started the show. I was in college at the time and was in Zoom School and was feeling inundated with bad news and stress. I really just wasn't finding myself very happy. I very spontaneously, as part of my senior project at Boston University, interviewed these kids about how they stayed happy during a time that felt very joyless.

They had so much to say. They were really honest that it's unrealistic to be happy all the time. They had some really good tips and tricks. What I started as a funny video turned into something very sincere and very sweet. I think I very quickly realized that I'd sung special on my hands. The name Recess Therapy, the idea for it, was going to kids to bring very adult complicated ideas and getting their picks on them and seeing if they can offer some insight even though they haven't been around as long as we have.

Melissa Harris-Perry: On exactly that point, let's listen to a little conversation about facing fear.

Caden: I have the fear of actually never achieving things when I grow up, to be honest.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Really?

Caden: Yes.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Where do you think it comes from?

Caden: I don't know. Deep down you just think, "Oh, I don't got it. I don't have grip of what I'm doing."

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Do you think adults have different fears than kids?

Caden: I don't know. Maybe the fear of getting old or taxes. Adults, you need to face your fears in order to get through in life.

Melissa Harris-Perry: [laughs]

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Oh, my gosh. That's my friend, Caden. He is fantastic. Every time we talk, I get something like that.

Melissa Harris-Perry: So perfect. I love that he knows we're afraid of taxes, which feels perfect right at this moment in the calendar. [laughs]

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: I know. Seriously, it's a well-timed clip. I go to the park every weekend and I never have any fear of not getting some special nugget of wisdom or something absolutely hilarious because I think that's what-- Kids are very unfiltered in that. I can put any topic under the sun in front of them and they'll put it back in front of me in a way that I just wouldn't have come to myself.

That's just been such a beautiful experience for the past two years of getting to look at things that I have built my own ideas about and getting to see them in a completely new light has been very special.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Another fan-favorite, Komodo dragon. Let's take a listen to a little bit from that interview.

Dillon: I really like Komodo dragons.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: If you could talk to Komodo Dragons, what do you think you'd say to them?

Dillon: I love you. You're so nice.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: What do you think they'd say to you?

Dillon: I think they would just say thank you.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Do you think they'd say, I love you back?

Dillon: Oh, yes, maybe.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: What would you do if you went to Panega?

Dillon: I would just ride on all the Komodo dragons, but I know that Komodo dragons eat people.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Wait, what?

Dillon: They eat people.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: I've thought and talked about this interview so much, but I think hearing it now, I just had maybe a new idea about it, was just the creativity in it. This little boy, Dillon, I feel like is able to, I don't know, take something that might be scary or off-putting and you can just hear in the way he's talking about it, the way those ideas are just exploding his imagination, which is just so fun. I think Recess Therapy just allows you to hear kids in an unfiltered way. I think a lot of adults just don't have that luxury every day. That's such a fun interview.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Stick with us. We've got some more interviews from kids on Recess Therapy when we get back from a break. We'll also hear from some Takeaway caller kids offering advice to grownups. Stay with us. It's The Takeaway.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: It's The Takeaway. We're back with more from the creator and host of Recess Therapy, Julian Shapiro-Barnum. When I heard that last name, I just had to ask if he's related to the famous Barnum of Barnum & Bailey Circus?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: [laughs] I am. He's a great, great, great something or another.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Before the break, we heard an interview with Dillon about his love for Komodo dragons.

Dillon: They could eat people, which is so special.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Do you want to see an animal eat people?

Dillon: Actually, definitely, yes.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Why?

Dillon: Because it's like I never seen an animal eat a person.

[collective gasp]

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: You want to?

Dillon: Yes. Even though they might eat me, I still love them.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Now, do you hear that sound design, how it's punctuating the interview in just the right way? It's not just allowing us to hear it, it's encouraging us to hear it. I asked Julian about that.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Oh, of course. I work with a fantastic, brilliant editor named Will Halbert. He's been doing it with me since the very first episode. I send him hours of footage every week, and he does distill them to these very sweet, potent, exciting minute, minute and a half of video audio. I think what he is able to do so well is condense a through line or an idea and pinpoint, I don't know, all the meaningful moments of it.

It definitely is a little bit more condensed than it is when it's happening live. I think what we're able to do with that is create this highly concentrated moment that is just so fun to be dropped right into. I feel like you can open one of these videos and meet this whole little person and very quickly be acquainted with all their thoughts and ideas in a very fun way.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Big ups to sound designers. Can we just point out how critical that is for our storytelling?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Truly.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I want to take a listen here to a different topic. You spoke to some kids last year at Pride. Let's take a listen.

Child 2: It's a really fun experience being a part of the LGBTQ+ community.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Do you have any advice for adults who are figuring out who they are right now?

Child 2: Of course. If you're not sure who you are, it's okay. Tell your parents, your friends, or anyone. I bet you they're going to support you a lot. Everyone have a fair place in this world.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I just want to put that baby under glass and like, "Please never change."

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: I know. I've done two Pride episodes and they're incredibly important to me. I hold those episodes very near and dear to my heart. I come from a queer family. I have five gay parents and conversations about identity, may that be gender, sexuality, racial identity, have always been part of my upbringing even from a very young age. In that, I feel very passionate about giving kids that opportunity to share their thoughts and ideas about these subjects because they're obviously thinking about it, it's all over.

As this clip shows, they have some very beautiful and necessary things to say about these subjects. I think talking to kids about complicated things is necessary and very meaningful to them, and on the flip side, can be very meaningful to hear what they have to say.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Although this is not a partisan or political show, Recess Therapy isn't, there's a message there about in this moment when there's so much legislation to presumably protect kids from these conversations. Part of what you show us is, "No, no, no, no. Young people, they're full of ideas and ready to have these conversations and maybe actually should be in the role of teacher," in many of these conversations.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Totally, totally. I always say this, but kids are thinking about it. They're talking about it with each other. It is wrong to try to limit those conversations because it makes things taboo. It makes things feel wrong or shameful when they should be celebrated. There's so much straight washing in media and hetero representation that I think people don't even realize. I think it's very important to have conversations about queer identity with kids as well.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You were recently named to Forbes 30 under 30 in the social media category. Now, I must say, I actually think it might be more of an achievement to be named to Forbes 30 over 30 when it comes to the social media category but given that you're in this really lovely crew of people, tell me how did that strike you? What does it mean for you thinking about especially where this initiated?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: It was an absolute honor and a total surprise, I'll say. I just woke up and it was published. I'm only two years out of college. I will have been doing Recess Therapy for two years, April 10th, so this has been a real whirlwind experience. I don't know. It was very touching and very meaningful to be recognized for the work I've done with and on Recess Therapy. Me and the two women, Charlotte Wineman and Julia Ty Goldberg that I film it with every single weekend, we just care so deeply about this, and it's just meant so much that people have celebrated it in the way that they have. It's built a very special and vibrant community of people who love and celebrate Recess Therapy too.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let's end this on a little bit of advice-giving. Here's a clip that I think a lot of us need to hear.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: If you're an adult and you're watching this, here's how you can have fun play in the new year.

Kingston: Surf, make a rock connection. Go traveling. Find new places in the world that you love. Don't just work all day and have no fun, because that's just mad.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: That's my friend Kingston, he is another inspirational king. Always telling us how we can do better.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Do you have other best pieces of advice that you have learned from the young people you've interviewed that maybe you've really personally yourself taken to heart?

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Yes, I think something that I got from the very first day of interviewing I ever did was a kid said, "I want to be happy all the time. I want to be happy every day, but I'm not happy every day. Actually, I cry every day." You can't be happy all the time. That's one that I really hold near and dear. I think just a more general thing that I've taken from Recess Therapy and working with thousands of kids is kids let their emotions run through them in real-time.

I think adults really pick and choose when they want to feel the feelings they're feeling, and how big or small that is. I think there's a lot to be learned from kids in the sense of letting your feelings run through you and not holding onto them for longer than they need to be there. That's something that I've really tried to take into my life. It's worked. It's hard.

Melissa Harris-Perry: It is. I wonder why it gets so much harder. Just this enthusiasm for life, the understanding that you got to have a little fun, the willingness to feel your feelings, including your feelings of fear, even if it's of taxes, it does get much harder. It's a nice moment to remember we could go back and recapture the parts where it's not as hard.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Totally. I think it's just really important to play and take time out of your schedule to do things that bring you joy because kids certainly will take any opportunity to do something that makes them happy. I think adults can do that a lot more.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Julian Shapiro-Barnum is a creator, comedian, and host of Recess Therapy. Julian, thanks for joining us today.

Julian Shapiro-Barnum: Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: It turns out that some of your kiddos have golden nuggets of advice for us adults as well.

Adam: Hi, my name is Adam. I live in Florida. I want to give advice to a grownup to make money and get a house.

Kennedy: Hello, this is Kennedy and Ethan, and my choice of wisdom is remember when we used to be kids and it was just full of joy and it can still be.

Andreas Daniel Dippolito: Parents. Don't worry about your phone or anything else, just worry about your kids. Andreas Daniel Dippolito from Windham City, Oregon.

Aurelia Martin: My name is Aurelia Martin. My advice for adults is give your children lots of fun and protect them from strangers and danger.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right, good people. We love hearing from you and from your smart kids, so remember, you and they can always give us a call. Call us about anything at 8778, my take. That's 877-869-825-3, or send us a tweet at The Takeaway. Thanks so much for being with us. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry, and this is The Takeaway.

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