Rebeca Ibarra: You're listening to The Takeaway. I'm Rebeca Ibarra, in for Tanzina. Over the past two weeks, negotiations have taken place in Vienna between Iran and officials from other nations still signed on to the 2015 Iran nuclear deal. Diplomats from the US are also in the city to negotiate a potential reentry into the deal, but so far have not sat down face-to-face with the Iranian representatives. After several days of talks, both the US and Iran, indicated that discussions were moving in a positive direction, but an explosion at an Iranian nuclear facility on Monday could derail negotiations.
Iran's government has been tight lipped about the full extent of the damage of the facility, but multiple outlets are reporting that Israel was involved in the attack. While the Israeli government has not officially confirmed their role, Iranian officials are vowing retaliation in response to the explosion. This all leaves the Biden administration in a complicated position since its close alliance with Israel could make Iran more resistant to negotiating with the US. Here's what the White House Press Secretary, Jen Psaki, told reporters about the situation on Monday.
Jen Psaki: We of course have seen the reports of the incident at the Natanz enrichment facility. The US was not involved in any manner. We have nothing to add on speculation about the causes or the impacts. I will say on your first question, though, we are focused on the discussions that we expect to proceed this Wednesday in Vienna. The diplomatic discussions that have been taking place and took place last week, we expect them to be difficult and long. We have not been given any indication about a change in participation for these discussions.
Rebeca: Here with us now is Golnaz Esfandiari, a senior correspondent with Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, who covers Iran. Welcome back to the show Golnaz.
Golnaz Esfandiari: Thank you for having me.
Rebeca: What information have Iranian officials put out so far about the explosion?
Golnaz: Well, first they said there was a power outage at the Natanz nuclear facility, which is a nuclear base in central Iran and its underground. Later they said there was an explosion. A spokesperson with the country's Nuclear Atomic Energy Agency said it was a small explosion and that the explosion caused some damage, but as you said, we don't know exactly the extent of the damage at Natanz.
There were reports and The New York Times cited two intelligence sources saying that the operations there had been set back for at least nine months, but Iranian official claim that the outage has been fixed, and that they're replacing the damaged centrifuges with more advanced machines. Today, Iranian Foreign Minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, spoke about the incident and he also said that Natanz is going to move forward with more advanced centrifuges in the near future.
Rebeca: What is the significance of the nuclear site that was attacked this week?
Golnaz: Well, this is a key nuclear site in Iran. The purposes Iran uses it is for uranium enrichment, and its underground. This site was also targeted in the past. Last July, Iranian officials reported a fire at Natanz and later they said that the cause of the fire was a sabotage act. They blamed again, Israel, saying that Israel was involved in that incident. Natanz has been also hit by cyber attacks in the past by Stuxnet. It's not the first time that it's been targeted.
Rebeca: Golnaz, at the moment how much do we know about Israel's involvement in the explosion?
Golnaz: Well, as you said, Israel has not confirmed nor denied any role in this incident, but unnamed intelligence sources have been quoted by Israeli media as saying that Mossad was behind this latest incident, but I don't think that- Israel has a policy of not confirming or denying having a hand in these actions, but we know that Israel has been accused also in the past of actions that are aimed at delaying or damaging Iran's nuclear program, which Israel sees as an existential threat. As I said, there was this fire in Natanz, there's been the assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist. A top nuclear scientist was killed last year, last November near the capital, Tehran. Again, Iranian official pointed this accusation finger at Israel.
Rebeca: Tell us more what Iranian officials have said they're going to do in response to this attack.
Golnaz: Well, today, Iranian Foreign Minister said that Iran will retaliate if it determines that Israel was indeed behind this attack, but even before that, some said that Iran should take revenge. We've heard from the hardliners. For example, there was an op-ed piece in the hardline news agency Tasnim, which is close to the powerful Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps, and that it calls for Iran to leave the nuclear talks, saying that they're taking place under the shadow of terror, because Iranian officials have called this latest attack on Natanz, nuclear terrorism.
Others said that Iran should retaliate, but they said that not for now, that Iran should remain in the talks, and that leaving the talks is actually what Israel would want. As you know, Israel has opposed the nuclear deal, and the aims of these talks is an attempt to basically revive the nuclear deal by getting the US to rejoin and Iran to come back into full compliance.
Rebeca: What has the Biden administration said about the attack?
Golnaz: The Biden administration had said that it didn't play any role in this attack. It distanced itself and said it remains focused on the nuclear talks that started last week in Vienna and are due to resume later this week again. These talks are the first time that the Iranian side and the representatives from the Biden administration are holding indirect negotiations.
The European countries are working as intermediaries between the two sides. It looks like the talks are very complicated and they're very difficult. It could take months or weeks, we don't know, but it seems that there wasn't any breakthrough yet, but all participants said that the atmosphere was constructive.
Rebeca: Golnaz, what's the likelihood of this attack making it more difficult for the US and Iran to reach an agreement regarding the nuclear deal?
Golnaz: Well, I don't think that this means the end of the talks in Vienna, but it's likely that it's going to make it more difficult. It's going to make it more difficult because it's going to make it less likely that Iran will be willing to compromise. There are already people in Iran saying that there's no way that the US didn't know about this attack that. They claimed that Israel had coordinated with the US or had at least given advanced warning to the US that this is going to happen.
In that sense, the talks, which are already very difficult and complicated, could become more complicated. For now, the two sides seems to be willing to go back to Vienna and just see if they can reach an agreement. For that, both sides would need to be pragmatic. We can't expect Iran to get everything that it wants, and the same for the US. There are tough days ahead, I think.
Rebeca: Looking beyond the attack, what have been some of the sticking points when it comes to the US agreeing to re-enter the nuclear deal?
Golnaz: Well, Iran has been calling for the lifting of all the sanctions that the Trump administration put in place after leaving the 2015 nuclear deal. The Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister, Abbas Araghchi who is the chief negotiator, said there are about 1,500 designations so it's going to be a very complex task to undo all these sanctions. Also, it's not clear if the US is willing to basically remove all the sanctions.
The US is likely to want to have some leverage over Iran, but it seems that they're on the right path. I think what's going to be very difficult is that the Biden administration has expressed interest in making this deal longer and stronger and that's going to be a major problem, because I don't think Iran would be willing to talk about its missile program and also its regional ambitions.
Rebeca: You mentioned sanctions. Why is sanctions relief so important to Iran?
Golnaz: Iran's economy is in dire straits. These sanctions have crippled the Iranian economy. Iran cannot sell its oil, or it's been very difficult for Iran to sell its oil, which is a major source of outcome for the country. There's also growing frustration on the parts of Iranians who took to the streets last November, because the government suddenly increased the price of petrol, and that anger, very many people who said the poor is going to become even poorer. The government responded with force, killing a few hundred people, even some of those who were not basically participating in the protest.
There's lots of tensions in Iran and as I said, the economy is in a very bad shape and they definitely need sanctions relief. They're also facing a fourth wave of the pandemic. The number of people who are dying everyday is increasing very fast. Today it was nearly 200 people, 291, which is the highest in weeks. The situation is very bad and they need to be able to sell their oil. They need the sanctions to be lifted.
Rebeca: Golnaz Esfandiari is a senior correspondent with Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty who covers Iran. Thank you so much, Golnaz.
Golnaz: Thanks for having me.
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