AUDIO RECORDING OF PRESIDENT OBAMA: The important thing is getting the thing passed. And I’ve done extraordinary outreach, I think, to Republicans because they have some good ideas and I want to make sure that those ideas are incorporated.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Outrage, bipartisanship, that's being tested on Capitol Hill this week. Also the nature of the stimulus package itself is being debated and joining us now we are grateful to have Senator Charles Grassley, the U.S. Republican Senator from Iowa. Senator Grassley it is so nice to talk to you again.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Yeah, John glad to be with you and Adaora.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Let me just ask right off the top here: Is it possible that the bill, as its coming together, is looking a little bit more like an opportunity for lawmakers to get involved in programs that maybe they wouldn't have be able to do without the cover of this crisis and so that's why this bill is looking as complex as it is as this point?

SEN. GRASSLEY: The extent to which there is money or tax policy in here that goes way beyond the two year period that we want the stimulus to stimulate. Or to the extent that there are projects that are just personal for a single district, the answer is yes. And it goes beyond the purpose of a stimulus package which is to create jobs. maybe some of those other things I talked about create jobs, but if you create jobs for two years and the programs ongoing and at the end of two years you are going to eliminate those jobs I think we ought to concentrate on projects that can be done and over and most of those would fall into the category of infrastructure.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Alright let’s talk about the difference from the Republican perspective, and I know you don’t speak for all Republicans, but in so far as you can, the difference between something you feel is just purely for some individual lawmaker’s district and something that actually has legitimate economic stimulus value.

SEN. GRASSLEY: For instance if you’re going to sod the grass on the Mall in Washington DC and that would be done anyway, then should that be in the stimulus package? There is certain upkeep that government has to do every year. Why would you use a stimulus package for an excuse? Or if you’re going to extend the Head Start program for 55,000 kids, which probably needs to be done, and you’re going to hire teachers, but why would you do that in a stimulus bill if at the end of the stimulus bill its not going to be continued beyond that. Should not a head start program decision to increase the number of kids and to hire more teachers be done in the regular appropriations process where it would get long term consideration and where it would be prioritized against other programs as opposed to sticking it in the stimulus package. No. I think it is being in the stimulus package just because it wouldn’t otherwise get done.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Let’s look at an example that some Republicans have criticized and that is Medicaid budgets that the stimulus package would reimburse states for their strapped Medicaid budgets. Isn’t it stimulative for states to get the Medicaid cash that they need because it would free up resources for state business and state workers and state projects to actually get completed?

SEN. GRASSLEY Yeah. Let’s say there is a very important reason to put more money into Medicaid. There are X number of people who are going to be unemployed they don’t have health insurance and they turn to Medicaid and we ought to provide that service for them. That’s about ten billion dollars out of the 86 billion dollars that’s in the bill. Okay then let’s accept your argument, and I do, that there are certain aid that ought to be given to states then why don’t we give that aid to states and not use the subterfuge of Medicaid to get the money to the states. If the states need money for education, give it for education. If they need it for building roads, give it for building roads, but not do it through the Medicaid program.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY But isn’t it the same mathematics? The same arithmetic?

SEN. GRASSLEY Yeah, but isn’t it a little bit deceitful to the taxpayers to give money for health care for the unemployed when you only need about one-tenth of the money? Isn’t that deceitful? Shouldn’t we be above board and very transparent? In fact isn’t that why we have the present economic crisis we’re in? There’s a credit crisis because there wasn’t transparency in the banking business and the securities business.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Good point. Let’s talk about what Barack Obama said in the clip we played He was speaking during a pre-Super Bowl interview with Matt Lauer so everyone in the universe saw the interview probably. He said that Republicans have good ideas and he wants to see them incorporated into this bill. Are any of your good ideas in this bill, Senator Grassley?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Yeah, we have every year we have a tax problem with the alternative minimum tax where middle income people are going to be hit by a tax that was only supposed to hit millionaires and the committee adopted my amendment so that we don’t’ hit those 24 million middle income people. Now is that stimulus? Not exactly, but when you have indefinite and uncertainty in tax policy it is not good for the economy. Now the only difference between Republicans…well there may be a lot of differences between Republicans and Democrats on spending money. But a major difference is that Republicans like to make sure we have tax policy that encourages investment so that you create jobs in the private sector because those jobs in the private sector are going to be long term jobs whereas the jobs we’re talking about by spending money are only be two-year jobs.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Well certainly…well, very very quickly are you going to vote for it as it stands now?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Oh no. I didn’t vote for it out of committee. But because of what the president is saying and his desire to have a bipartisan bill, which Democrats in Congress didn’t desire to have, with President pressure we can probably put together a bipartisan bill that Republicans can vote for.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY Well, certainly part of the debate and you’ll be right in the middle of it. Charles Grassley, U.S Senator from Iowa, Republican Senator from Iowa thank you so much for giving us a hint of the debate to come. Thank you, Senator.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Thank you, John. I appreciate being with you.