John Hockenberry: Continuing now with Patrik Henry Bass, Essence senior editor and Takeaway contributor. Race, beer, two professors, one president, the White House, a cop from Cambridge, Massachusetts -- is there any buzz in the African American community, and not that you represent everyone, that this is going to actually contribute something here?

Patrik Henry Bass: I don’t know if our numbers are going to go up for Oktoberfest. We’re having Oktoberfest in August here. What’s surprising and fascinating is the lack of outreach that you hear within the African American community around l'affaire Gates. Professor Gates is not Rosa Parks. Racial profiling is an extremely, extremely sensitive issue with great historic and systemic challenges.

John Hockenberry: When you say Professor Gates is not Rosa Parks, what do you mean?

Patrik Henry Bass: I mean that once the details of what happened with the arrest, once the details began to spring out in barbershops, I have a barbershop and beauty parlor and I use that as ground zero for everything that happens in the African American community.

John Hockenberry: That’s good.

Patrik Henry Bass: But as details began to spring out it appeared that there was an overreaction on both sides. And I believe what happened with Professor Gates was there was an over-estimation of his celebrity. We’ve seen this before with Cynthia McKinny in 2006 on Capitol Hill where she wasn’t wearing her lapel pin and she ended up punching an officer in the chest because he didn’t recognize her because he tried to stop her. We had Oprah Winfrey and Gayle King in France at a Hermes store, they were turned away because Hermes thought they were Northern Africans, and I’m not sure whether Oprah and Gayle were wearing fezes but…

John Hockenberry: The store they said they were closed or something…

Patrik Henry Bass: They said they were, well, right. It became an international incident and an affair. Someone who’s recognizable as a billionaire who’s watched by hundreds of millions of people around the world can have a moment where she is turned away or every light doesn’t turn green for her every day. And for Professor Gates, every light didn’t turn green for him that day. Once he stepped outside his house and continued his anger with the police officer, all heck broke loose. And I think more and more African Americans once, as well as all Americans, once the details began to spring out, it was understandable Gates’s reaction, but it was also understandable Crowley’s reaction.

John Hockenberry: You want to get Gates’s grad students in here to see what they’d think of his demeanor. They’ve probably seen him up close and personal.

Amy Holmes: So you’re saying Professor Gates, he’s not necessarily popular in the African American community?

Patrik Henry Bass: I’m not saying that. I’m saying he might be overestimating his popularity. I think his appearance on CNN and Black America 2. Many people were looking forward to Part 2 of Soledad O'Brien and CNN’s documentary investigating what it means to be African American today. And he started it off with a 15 minute live interview with Soledad O'Brien, and it was surprising because many people think that Professor Gates is a historian and he’s not, he’s a literary critic. So it was surprising his response. He was stunned that this could happen to him. He was stunned that this could happen in the United States of America especially given all the narratives that would take place on CNN and Black America 2. I think that then he began to start losing some support in the African American community, because this police racial profiling, police brutality are serious issues and the challenge with many Americans with President Obama is he was so silent throughout the campaign about issues of race, particularly around Jena Six. So the one moment that you speak about race after an extraordinary appearance in front of the NAACP, extraordinary appearance, it’s about Professor Gates in an incident that everybody didn’t fully know the facts.

John Hockenberry: But does this squander that sense of having settled questions or deeply and emotionally dealt with questions at the NAACP convention? Does it squander that that we’re having a beer in the backyard?

Patrik Henry Bass: I think any conversation about race is an important conversation. I just think that this is now lapsed into a photo op. And is this going to be neatly packaged with the weekly news. And for many African Americans who have had children that have been murdered by police officers, like the gentleman in Oakland who was murdered by police, their lives have to go on, it’s not about a photo op, a beer, a Red Stripe or a Blue Moon.

John Hockenberry: Robert Gibbs at the White House said it right at the top of the segment, it is going to be a photo op. I wonder if that contributes to any sense that something constructive can happen. Amy?

Amy Holmes: Sure, let’s bring in Sheila Heen, author of “Difficult Conversations,” and a lecturer on negotiations at Harvard Law School to weigh in. Sheila, thanks for joining us.

Sheila Heen Hello.

Amy Holmes: Hello. So we’re talking about this millennial brew at the White House. In Washington, they’re calling it “the audacity of hop.” Is there really an opportunity here for real reconciliation or is it just a photo op?

Sheila Heen That’s one of the challenges in this case which is, I think there is opportunity for reconciliation if they can get a real conversation going, but doing so under the shadow of the media is hard, because it’s really two negotiations going on at once. There are obviously negotiating with each other and with the President, as the mediator by the way. But really what’s going on is they’re negotiating their reputations in the broader community. Even that night there was an audience, and whenever there’s an audience issues of identity, reactivity and defensiveness go way up.

Amy Holmes: That’s interesting that you say President Obama is the mediator. Isn’t he actually one of the antagonists given the press conference last week when he said the officers had acted stupidly?

Sheila Heen That’s one of his challenges, which is that as the mediator, of course, as someone who’s trying to convene a conversation, the parties want to know are you neutral. And I think that he unintentionally actually tipped his hand in a way that at least the perception is that he’s not necessarily neutral, and whether or not he is, which I actually think is one of his gifts, he’s really pointing out what’s legitimate about two sides to a conflict. In this case, he tipped his hand in a way that changes the perception.

Amy Holmes: I’ve got to tell you, I’m really skeptical about how much reconciliation can happen when you’re sitting there in front of the President of the United States, leader of the free world, what are you really going to say to his face? I would show up to this invitation if he had Charlie Manson waiting in the waiting room.

Patrik Henry Bass: I’ve got to disagree with you there, Amy.

Amy Holmes: You know, what kind of sincerity can we expect when basically, when the president beckons, you come?

Patrik Henry Bass: Right. It’s a brew-ha-ha.

John Hockenberry: Sheila, I guess what Amy’s question is, if there is reconciliation even between these three guys, does it have any relevance to any sort of broader reconciliation out in the country? Sheila?

Sheila Heen That I think is one of the interesting things. I do think that there’s an opportunity here, it’s just that there’s a couple of big hurdles to get there. In other words, if they can actually prepare for this conversation, and I mean Crowley and Gates, in a way that sets them up to be constructive, then there’s actually an opportunity for the three of them to do something interesting together. But it’s kind of a long road to get there.

Patrik Henry Bass: I just want to interject that when President Clinton was in office, he convened a conversation about race with the esteemed John Hope Franklin as the moderator, and the media laughed at it. People looked at it as quite cynical. This was a real probative look at the African American narrative, our place in American history…

John Hockenberry: With no beer.

Patrik Henry Bass: That would have made it really good. Our contribution to the world. And people cynically laughed at the attempt to do that. This notion of Skip Gates and Crowley reconciling, I didn’t understand they had a fallout over something personal, given all the important issues that are taking place right now like health care and other issues like unemployment, is this the very best way for the President to spend his time?

Amy Holmes: I keep circling back, and Sheila, maybe you can answer this, how do you have a candid discussion when the mediator is someone of such dazzling celebrity and power, do you really have…will either Crowley or Skip Gates feel like they can be candid?

Sheila Heen I think it depends on how they negotiate with themselves ahead of time. In other words, race makes this a particularly hot issue. But I think everybody listening can identify with the situation when you walk into a conversation with somebody and you don’t expect it to escalate, you don’t expect it to be a difficult conversation, and suddenly it’s 15 minutes later, the thing has escalated beyond anything you could have intended. I don’t think either Crowley or Gates that evening wanted to be in the center of a media firestorm. The particular trigger for it is related to race because Skip Gates doesn’t know that asking for ID is a standard procedure. I’ve lived in Cambridge for 10 years, I’ve had my house robbed. When the cops came they asked me for ID.

John Hockenberry: I guess we can only hope that this episode…

Sheila Heen …I don’t wonder, I don’t have to question…

John Hockenberry: Sheila, hold on one second because we’re going to end the segment. But we can only hope that this will escalate to the level of mooning and food fighting but in fact you raise a great point. There are challenges ahead and this cast of characters makes it very difficult.

Sheila Heen I have one more thing to say…

John Hockenberry: We don’t have time, we have to leave it there. Sheila Heen is author of “Difficult Conversations,” a lecturer on negotiations at Harvard Law School, and Patrik Henry Bass, our friend and Essence senior editor.