BROOKE GLADSTONE: Joel Cheatwood is vice president of news for all CBS stations. Mr. Cheatwood, is there a difference between what people say they want and what they really want?

JOEL CHEATWOOD: I think to some degree, sure. You know it's when you look at research about news content and see that everybody wanted to see stories on the environment and on education and yet station after station would program to that end and nobody would watch!

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Well Mr. Cheatwood you, you've caused the ratings to soar at station after station, and you've done it in ways at various times that may very well have been misconstrued and, and certainly criticized, but it's worked! So what have you done that's worked?

JOEL CHEATWOOD: Well let's take-- let's take Boston, for example. It was clear that really the, the market had kind of been on auto pilot. We went in and really determined that an aggressive news approach where we really covered major stories wherever they took place, as long as they had a New England connection, we would travel, we would cover them. The O.J. Simpson trial was going on. We felt it had high interest. We weren't comfortable with just having our network provide us with coverage. We had a reporter there for two months! We identified that there was a real need for health reporting in the market, and consumer investigative reporting, and really those three elements, I think, helped the station rise to, to where it is today!

BROOKE GLADSTONE:You gave them more O.J. -- you gave them more health coverage -- and you gave them more consumer coverage. It sounds like there's a certain amount of carrot and stick happening there.

JOEL CHEATWOOD: No, I, I don't think there is, but I also think that there are ways to present those stories -- and most people would look at and say that's not a TV story. I will tend to put a touch to things or a spin to things that make them aesthetically more attractive to watch.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:The Project for Excellence in Journalism came out with a massive study -- thousands of hours spent watching local newscasts, and in a nutshell, it said that quality news begets higher ratings. Did this survey cause any ripples within the stations?

JOEL CHEATWOOD: You know I, I don't always agree with the criteria that goes into the sorts of ratings systems like that one, but I do think that it's important because it provokes question and discussion. We need to take a hard look at crime reporting. We can't just use the old standard of - you know - if a siren is blasting or a red light is flashing, we're going to put a camera to it.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: If it bleeds, it leads. Is it true?

JOEL CHEATWOOD:You know I - I'll tell you - moreso than ever, it's not true. The best thing that local television news does is, is provide up to the minute coverage of breaking news stories. But what's happened is we've kind of become the one-trick pony. We do it well; we provide it; people respond to it, so we, we've overdosed on it. People have said look - enough is enough. You know the shtick doesn't really work for us any more. It's old hat. So give us some substance.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Isn't if it bleeds, it leads the way that you made your name?

JOEL CHEATWOOD:I think when that criticism was attached it was in Miami. It was a time in, in that city's makeup where crime was the number one concern among the citizenry. You know when I am asked to defend my, myself I always point out that during the time at that station, we increased the level of investigative reporting, education reporting and health reporting to a greater extent than anyone had ever done. But again, we had, we chose to present it in a - a flashier style I think overall than, than local television had been accustomed to. So people gravitated to the glitzier elements of the presentation. The critics forgot about the substance that was there.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Is there a siege mentality out there among the stations that of course J schools and media pundits are going to criticize them and those people just don't understand the bottom line!

JOEL CHEATWOOD: There is a certain sense of idealism when it comes to this business. This is a business. We do have - we are accountable to budgets. We're accountable to profit-making companies. You know the days of news divisions being loss leaders -- they're over.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Joel Cheatwood is vice president of news for all CBS stations.