Porn and Comics Self-Regulation



April 14, 2001



BROOKE GLADSTONE: For example: Paul Cambria is an attorney who represents some of the biggest players in the field of pornography: VCA Pictures, Vivid Video, Hustler and Video Team. Mr. Cambria, welcome to the show.

PAUL CAMBRIA: The adult entertainment field-- [LAUGHTER]

BROOKE GLADSTONE: I stand corrected. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

PAUL CAMBRIA: -- as opposed to the [LAUGHS] pornography field. [LAUGHTER] Thank you.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Now in these times when conservatives, notably Attorney General John Ashcroft, hold the reins of power, there has been an urge to do a little self-policing. You've helped at least one company draw up a list of box-cover and movie production guidelines.

PAUL CAMBRIA: One of my clients had asked me can you tell us the subjects that are the most frequent subjects for prosecution. And the next thing you know, they produced a written list which included some of the things that I said and a number of things that they put on the list themselves.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Keeping in mind that this is a family program, sort of, can you go over some of the elements that at least one company has posted and said that they'll try to avoid.

PAUL CAMBRIA: They were things such as group sex; pictures of individuals engaging in so-called bondage or sado-masochistic activities. It seems as if the more unusual variety of sexual activities that occur, the more likely it'll be selected for prosecution.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Isn't pornography-- excuse me - isn't adult-- [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

PAUL CAMBRIA: Adult -- there you go. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

BROOKE GLADSTONE:-- entertainment the place where, beyond all others, the market is arguably supposed to prevail? I mean what's the point of a list like this?

PAUL CAMBRIA: The point of the list was to advise my clients the things that may get prosecuted! Whether or not they're successfully prosecuted's a different story! I think that's what you're referring to is, you know, if it doesn't offend the law, what's the point? Well, because you may still get charged even though the jury ultimately says you did not violate the law, and some people want to avoid even being charged.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:And so as you say what some of your companies are anticipating or trying to forestall is a step up in what amounts to these nuisance suits in the Bush administration.

PAUL CAMBRIA: They really don't know what's going to happen with the Bush administration. Whether or not the people in the administration will realize that the general public does not have prosecution of adult materials for adults as a high priority, and we can see that by the literally billions, with a B, of dollars spent each year on adult material. I think that's a pretty strong message to any administration that you know the, the adult public feels that this material is legitimate for them to consume, and the government should spend their money, you know, fighting street crime, drug crime and violent crime rather than trying to tell people what movies they can watch at home on their VCR or on their satellite station!

BROOKE GLADSTONE: How much of the industry do you think will take notice of this list?

PAUL CAMBRIA:Oh, I think the whole industry has taken notice of it. Some people have decided that the list really means don't do this. Other people have decided the list means this is obscene. Other people have taken the position that the large companies made up this list because they don't produce any material with these subjects in them, and so they're just trying to put the small companies that do produce this kind of material out of business. I mean it seems like everybody has decided for themselves what they're going to do with this so-called list.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Well thank you very much.

PAUL CAMBRIA: Okay!

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Paul Cambria is an attorney who represents the adult entertainment industry.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Self-regulation is almost always motivated by self-preservation. One of the best examples is the creation of the Comic Books Authority. In 1954 the entertainment industries were feeling the chill of McCarthyism. Enemies of the comic book were testifying on Capitol Hill. Retailers were getting nervous. So the industry self-imposed a content code to be monitored by the Comics Code Authority, still operating today. Michael Silberkleit is the publisher of Archie Comics. He remembers when his father helped to create the Comics Code Authority.

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: What happened was that the retailers who handled comic magazines and the distributors who handled comic magazines were so worried that the government, the Senate committees would come down on them similar to what they did with the blacklisting of Communists, that they refused handle all comic books. In those days, every comic book that was printed and sold to the distributor, thence to the retailer was fully returnable. So you lived on the percentage of the sales of your magazines, and you know you had a breaking point, and if you sold less, you lost money.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Hence the Comics Code Authority.

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT:There's no doubt in my mind that overnight the industry would have been wiped out. Absolutely gone. Cause people didn't want to handle comic books.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:But the bar has been raised enormously on violent media, even violent media for children. Why is there still a need for a Comics Code?

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: Well you have to segue now from 1954 to 2001. I mean things have changed dramatically over the years. The original code you could not show a tiger jumping out of the bushes at a hunter with his claws and his fangs showing, which is kind of ridiculous by today's standards but it certainly wasn't ridiculous by 1954 standards. If you look at the current code, it has reference to things like you should not denigrate the police department, the teachers, your family, the government, you shouldn't make fun of any ethnic groups or any kind of sexual preferences and things like that. We at Archie feel that we are definitely responsible publishers. We feel that we have an obligation to the children of America and the world who read our comic books to see that there is nothing objectionable to children.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Okay, but the fact is, is that Archie doesn't need a Comic Code Authority. You don't expect to see Veronica and Reggie, you know, going at it in the back of the family Chevrolet. But some of the code doesn't seem to relate at all to the sorts of comics that are out there that might actually feel constrained by a code. For example the Code says that female characters should be drawn realistically without any exaggeration of physical qualities, and meanwhile characters like Catwoman or, or the She-Hulk seem to personify such exaggerations. Does anybody really follow this code?

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: Oh, yes. As far as Catwoman being a little sexually explicit or whatever you want to call it, or provocative, I guess you have to say that we're -- these are drawn characters --they're not real characters. Look at the 6 o'clock news; what do you see 6 o'clock news when everybody's watching television? [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Wait a minute, wait a minute -- you have a Comics Code. This code is supposed to ride herd over comics! Comics are drawn characters! That's what you're supposed to be looking at when the code talks about exaggerating character-- physical characteristics, and you have a picture that exaggerates it naturally! Comics are pictures!

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: Well the only answer I can give to that then is if it is in violation of the code, the code administrator, their responsibility is to show this to the editor and say you have to tone it down! You have to change it, or you cannot put the seal on it!

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Okay. What about the rule that says scenes of excessive violence shall not be presented. Some of the most popular Comics Code Authority-approved titles are characters such as Wolverine, Dead Pool, The Punisher --they're incredibly violent!

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: They're - they may be violent, but I don't believe they're excessively violent. Pick up some of the books that don't have the seal on it and you'll see the difference. You'll see people ripping people's hearts out! Ripping heads off. I don't think you'll see that in code-approved adventure - what we call adventure comic books.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:How much is the code an effort of the comics industry to self-regulate and how much of it is a reaction to the demands of retailers such as Wal-Mart that will carry the titles.

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: Well I think a lot of the code is to protect itself from the over-reaction. I can tell you that most retailers like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Walden Books will not handle comic books that do not have the Comics Code of s--the Comics Seal on it! First of all we're all in business to stay in business and not be put out of business.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Thank you very much.

MICHAEL SILBERKLEIT: Well thank you! It's been a pleasure to talk to you, Brooke, all about comic books.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Michael Silverkleit is the publisher of Archie Comics and the former head of the Comics Magazine Association of America which created the Comics Code Authority. [MUSIC TAG]