Covering Israel
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Covering Israel
April 6, 2002
BROOKE GLADSTONE: From WNYC in New York this is NPR's On the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD: And I'm Bob Garfield. Another disastrous week in the Middle East dominates the news despite an extraordinary effort by the Israeli government to close off the flow of information. Journalists have been banned from the cities of Ramallah in Bethlehem, expelled, threatened with government lawsuits and subjected to bullets, tear gas and stun grenades. Press organizations around the world have decried the clampdown charging censorship and calling for investigations.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Last Sunday Israeli authorities announced that they would begin enforcing existing rules under which journalists must submit reports about defense matters to a military censor. They have also routinely denied press credential to Palestinian journalists including those working for foreign news agencies. Nasser Atta has been a producer for more than a dozen years for ABC News. He's on the line from Jerusalem. Welcome to the show.
NASSER ATTA: Thank you.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Your press pass runs out in a couple of weeks. You are alternately regarded as a Palestinian by the Israeli government. Also you have an American passport. ABC will certainly grant you a new press pass, but will the Israeli government approve it?
NASSER ATTA: I hope they will give it to me. And I hope that they will give it to my colleagues that they don't have it. But I mean I know more than one journalist; there is a producer who is the desk news manager of Reuters. He's from Ramallah, and his press pass was denied for the last two months. I know another --two friends from [...?...] Press, that they were denied, and that has been going for the last 4 months.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Yeah, do you think Palestinians are singled out for this kind of treatment?
NASSER ATTA:We have [...?...] [fortunately] that ABC News - all the press cards arrive in the beginning of the year. The Israelis, they have their press cards. Our American colleagues and our foreign colleagues working at the office, they have their press cards, and the Palestinians have-- no press cards.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Last Sunday on Israeli radio Danny Seaman [sp?] the director of the Government Press Office said that Palestinians employed by foreign networks were no doubt employed by the Palestinian Authority. What do you say to that?
NASSER ATTA: We were employed by the foreign agency before the existence of the P.A. and before the Oslo Agreement, so basically what I want just to say that we are not employed by the P.A. The P.A. will never force [an] American network to hire any Palestinians. All the Palestinians who are hired have a B.A. or a Master's degree or some of them have PhD -- they are very professional, and I think this is when the campaign becomes dirty.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Do you think that people outside Israel are sufficiently aware of the press crackdown there and how difficult it is to report the truth?
NASSER ATTA: You know I don't have to say to you that what is going on is really bad, and if it happened in any other country, nobody will accept that, but nobody, nobody from Europe or the United States talk about the [...?...] measures against the press that's been going on for the last 2 or 3 weeks in the West Bank and Gaza. We would like Colin Powell to speak about this like in the case of Zimbabwe when they prevented the press from covering the election, like the BBC. But here we are prevented, all of us, not only the BBC -- and we think it is violation of the freedom of the press.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:And your objections aren't just limited to restrictions on Palestinian journalists. You're talking about all the journalists trying to get the story out of the region now.
NASSER ATTA: Yeah! No, I'm not talking of the Palestinian journalists. I'm telling you actually in the last 2 or 3 weeks we are finding it very difficult, and it's becoming very dangerous to cover this story, and when we know that the army and the Israeli government is against our coverage, we do not feel safe in moving around, because everybody now in Israel is against the foreign press and against the journalists going to Ramallah and going to Bethlehem and going anywhere to cover the story.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:And so are you suggesting then that the American press is allowed to cover events that happen against Israelis with more thoroughness and access than they can in the occupied territories?
NASSER ATTA: That is the case in the last 3 weeks, actually, you know because we are not allowed to have access. I think we should cover the Israeli side and we should cover the Palestinian side, and we should be given all the access and all safety and all guarantee --not as a statement by the Israeli government which is saying that we cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. It makes me very scared because you know there are 5,000 soldiers in Ramallah, basically they are in control of the town, and-- so it is giving us a message.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:A correspondent from another network told us that these press crackdowns happen regularly and once the Israeli government comes under fire from outside organizations like the Foreign Press Association they'll back down. Has this been your experience of working in Israel? [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
NASSER ATTA: The Foreign Press, the Foreign Press Association issued a statement urging the Israelis to allow access, and they - actually they are thinking of going to the High Court. But it seems that this time the Israelis are insisting that-- this is their laws and this is the way they are doing it and they are not really paying attention any more to the press organizations that issuing statement urging the Israeli government to allow free access to the press to cover the story in the West Bank and Gaza.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Okay. Thanks very much.
NASSER ATTA: You're most welcome.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Nasser Atta has been a producer for ABC News for 12 years. He spoke to us from Jerusalem. Now we turn to Mark Regev. He is a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC. Mark, welcome back to OTM.
MARK REGEV: It's a pleasure to be back.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: In recent weeks we've seen an escalation in the restrictions imposed on reporters trying to cover the conflict. The Israeli government press office has threatened legal action against CNN and NBC whose correspondents continued broadcasting from Ramallah after the city was declared a closed military zone. Does the government plan to follow through on those legal threats?
MARK REGEV: It's not clear to me, but I do know that we are in our legal justification to declare a, a zone closed to the press. It's not without precedent. I think the Americans have done it in Afghanistan. I think it's been done in Yugoslavia by NATO forces. When there are bullets being exchanged and shells going off and, and military operations being conducted, the area is a dangerous area. I think we often close it to civilians as best we can, and press is civilians.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:There was an article not long ago in Ha' Aretz that complained about the lack of information that even the Israeli people were able to get from the Israeli press -- that the clampdown is affecting the flow of information inside the country as well.
MARK REGEV: I think Ha' Aretz which is-- a quality daily similar to the New York Times -- its job is to keep the government on its toes; its job is to keep the government off-balance - to challenge the government - that's the whole point of a free press, and it's only natural that they would tell the government that you're not giving out enough during military operations. I believe the [...?...] imposed on the New York Times to do the same to the Pentagon every day!
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And do you think that complaint is valid?
MARK REGEV: It's as valid as the complaint here is made against the Pentagon!
BROOKE GLADSTONE: There have been complaints against the Pentagon, however I don't think the situations are analogous.
MARK REGEV: Why not?
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Because this is happening right next door! The, the level of tension and the need for information in Israel now must be hideously acute!
MARK REGEV: I feel exactly my point. You see if you're -if, if American journalists complain that the Pentagon isn't giving out enough information about a war that's going on thousands of miles away in Afghanistan, Israeli operations are going on two miles from Jerusalem! Next to neighborhoods where we live! Surely the military's need to keep some sort of operational secrecy is just as important if not more important.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Okay. With regard to the safety of journalists, you say the government has restricted the movements of journalists there in order to protect their safety. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe expressed concern Thursday over attacks on foreign journalists by the Israeli Army! The Brussels-based International Federation of Journalists on Tuesday criticized Israel. The Foreign Press Association in the UK. The Committee to Protect Journalists here in the U.S. -- even the BBC have all lodged complaints against the Israeli government!
MARK REGEV: I'm aware of those complaints, yes.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And there have been a number of incidents in the last few days that would support the notion that in some cases it seems as if journalists may actually be targeted!
MARK REGEV: I don't, I don't believe that the, that Israel deliberately targets journalists and in fact I know the contrary is the truth. I know that the army's standing orders deliberately forbid that. The army's standing orders say you have to let journalists conduct their work; that the chief of staff of the Israeli Army, the most senior Israeli man in uniform recently released an order and he re-stressed those orders once again that a free press is an integral part of a democratic society, and soldiers have to safeguard the press and allow them to do their job.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:If a person such as Colin Powell were to speak out against the current press crackdown, would it make a difference to the Israeli government?
MARK REGEV: First of all, we want there to be a free press. But to close in selected zones of fighting the area to civilian traffic including the press -- this is something that everyone does! I just can't see Colin Powell talking about this. There is no -- you know, the United States does reports about civil rights and press freedoms all around the world. These are regular reports that are published by the State Department on a yearly basis. No one claims that Israel muzzles the press. No one serious claims that!
BROOKE GLADSTONE:We can't ignore the, the stack of complaints from respected press organizations that are piled up here on my desk! Everyone is currently complaining about the crackdown in the West.
MARK REGEV: I'll, I'll, I'll tell you exactly what happens, and I see it every night on cable television. The area is closed to the press, and then of course every good journalist - and this I what they have to do cause this is what their professional responsibilities are - is they try to find a way in nevertheless. I've seen a number of the networks do that. And then the Israeli authorities have to say no, you can't go in, and sometimes there's an exchange between soldiers and journalists, but-- the same thing happens in any other situation. Once again, these - this is the rules of the game. This is the - how it's played, and I'm saying this is not without precedent that when there is fighting going on you close areas for the press!
BROOKE GLADSTONE:In, in response to your statement, any reporter worth his salt in order to fulfill his professional obligations would have to break Israeli law in order to cover the story of immense global importance and then risk getting tossed out of the country as a result is, is a country where a free press is not being allowed to operate!
MARK REGEV: I-- beg to disagree; and I'll a question -- we pull out of Ramallah tomorrow -- okay? We pull out of Ramallah tomorrow and we will pull out shortly - that's part of-- the operation's a limited operation. So the, the, the - the press can report freely what goes on in Ramallah when Mr. Arafat's in charge? Please.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: The foreign press will report what it sees!
MARK REGEV:What it sees and its eyes and ears there are Palestinian stringers who are Palestinian nationals who have all these constraints on them which, which everyone knows exist. Palestinian society is authoritarian society. Mr. Arafat is a dictator; it's - and as a result, the press is part of that authoritarian mechanism! And there are rules there to be taken. I think if you look at what Israel is doing under very difficult conditions of war and terrorism, I, I am - the press has remarkable access, remarkable freedom; I haven't seen a serious impediment on American journalists doing their job. I see hours of footage every night from Israel. That we close a specific area for operational needs -- this is legitimate. As I said, it's done by the Americans. It's done by the British-- and it's, and it's within the framework of the law.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And too m-- [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
MARK REGEV: And if it's not I urge the press organizations to take the Israeli to the Supreme Court --maybe they'll win.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: All right. Mark Regev, thank you very much.
MARK REGEV: My pleasure.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Mark Regev is the spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington. [MUSIC]
April 6, 2002
BROOKE GLADSTONE: From WNYC in New York this is NPR's On the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD: And I'm Bob Garfield. Another disastrous week in the Middle East dominates the news despite an extraordinary effort by the Israeli government to close off the flow of information. Journalists have been banned from the cities of Ramallah in Bethlehem, expelled, threatened with government lawsuits and subjected to bullets, tear gas and stun grenades. Press organizations around the world have decried the clampdown charging censorship and calling for investigations.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Last Sunday Israeli authorities announced that they would begin enforcing existing rules under which journalists must submit reports about defense matters to a military censor. They have also routinely denied press credential to Palestinian journalists including those working for foreign news agencies. Nasser Atta has been a producer for more than a dozen years for ABC News. He's on the line from Jerusalem. Welcome to the show.
NASSER ATTA: Thank you.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Your press pass runs out in a couple of weeks. You are alternately regarded as a Palestinian by the Israeli government. Also you have an American passport. ABC will certainly grant you a new press pass, but will the Israeli government approve it?
NASSER ATTA: I hope they will give it to me. And I hope that they will give it to my colleagues that they don't have it. But I mean I know more than one journalist; there is a producer who is the desk news manager of Reuters. He's from Ramallah, and his press pass was denied for the last two months. I know another --two friends from [...?...] Press, that they were denied, and that has been going for the last 4 months.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Yeah, do you think Palestinians are singled out for this kind of treatment?
NASSER ATTA:We have [...?...] [fortunately] that ABC News - all the press cards arrive in the beginning of the year. The Israelis, they have their press cards. Our American colleagues and our foreign colleagues working at the office, they have their press cards, and the Palestinians have-- no press cards.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Last Sunday on Israeli radio Danny Seaman [sp?] the director of the Government Press Office said that Palestinians employed by foreign networks were no doubt employed by the Palestinian Authority. What do you say to that?
NASSER ATTA: We were employed by the foreign agency before the existence of the P.A. and before the Oslo Agreement, so basically what I want just to say that we are not employed by the P.A. The P.A. will never force [an] American network to hire any Palestinians. All the Palestinians who are hired have a B.A. or a Master's degree or some of them have PhD -- they are very professional, and I think this is when the campaign becomes dirty.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Do you think that people outside Israel are sufficiently aware of the press crackdown there and how difficult it is to report the truth?
NASSER ATTA: You know I don't have to say to you that what is going on is really bad, and if it happened in any other country, nobody will accept that, but nobody, nobody from Europe or the United States talk about the [...?...] measures against the press that's been going on for the last 2 or 3 weeks in the West Bank and Gaza. We would like Colin Powell to speak about this like in the case of Zimbabwe when they prevented the press from covering the election, like the BBC. But here we are prevented, all of us, not only the BBC -- and we think it is violation of the freedom of the press.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:And your objections aren't just limited to restrictions on Palestinian journalists. You're talking about all the journalists trying to get the story out of the region now.
NASSER ATTA: Yeah! No, I'm not talking of the Palestinian journalists. I'm telling you actually in the last 2 or 3 weeks we are finding it very difficult, and it's becoming very dangerous to cover this story, and when we know that the army and the Israeli government is against our coverage, we do not feel safe in moving around, because everybody now in Israel is against the foreign press and against the journalists going to Ramallah and going to Bethlehem and going anywhere to cover the story.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:And so are you suggesting then that the American press is allowed to cover events that happen against Israelis with more thoroughness and access than they can in the occupied territories?
NASSER ATTA: That is the case in the last 3 weeks, actually, you know because we are not allowed to have access. I think we should cover the Israeli side and we should cover the Palestinian side, and we should be given all the access and all safety and all guarantee --not as a statement by the Israeli government which is saying that we cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. It makes me very scared because you know there are 5,000 soldiers in Ramallah, basically they are in control of the town, and-- so it is giving us a message.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:A correspondent from another network told us that these press crackdowns happen regularly and once the Israeli government comes under fire from outside organizations like the Foreign Press Association they'll back down. Has this been your experience of working in Israel? [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
NASSER ATTA: The Foreign Press, the Foreign Press Association issued a statement urging the Israelis to allow access, and they - actually they are thinking of going to the High Court. But it seems that this time the Israelis are insisting that-- this is their laws and this is the way they are doing it and they are not really paying attention any more to the press organizations that issuing statement urging the Israeli government to allow free access to the press to cover the story in the West Bank and Gaza.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Okay. Thanks very much.
NASSER ATTA: You're most welcome.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Nasser Atta has been a producer for ABC News for 12 years. He spoke to us from Jerusalem. Now we turn to Mark Regev. He is a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC. Mark, welcome back to OTM.
MARK REGEV: It's a pleasure to be back.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: In recent weeks we've seen an escalation in the restrictions imposed on reporters trying to cover the conflict. The Israeli government press office has threatened legal action against CNN and NBC whose correspondents continued broadcasting from Ramallah after the city was declared a closed military zone. Does the government plan to follow through on those legal threats?
MARK REGEV: It's not clear to me, but I do know that we are in our legal justification to declare a, a zone closed to the press. It's not without precedent. I think the Americans have done it in Afghanistan. I think it's been done in Yugoslavia by NATO forces. When there are bullets being exchanged and shells going off and, and military operations being conducted, the area is a dangerous area. I think we often close it to civilians as best we can, and press is civilians.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:There was an article not long ago in Ha' Aretz that complained about the lack of information that even the Israeli people were able to get from the Israeli press -- that the clampdown is affecting the flow of information inside the country as well.
MARK REGEV: I think Ha' Aretz which is-- a quality daily similar to the New York Times -- its job is to keep the government on its toes; its job is to keep the government off-balance - to challenge the government - that's the whole point of a free press, and it's only natural that they would tell the government that you're not giving out enough during military operations. I believe the [...?...] imposed on the New York Times to do the same to the Pentagon every day!
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And do you think that complaint is valid?
MARK REGEV: It's as valid as the complaint here is made against the Pentagon!
BROOKE GLADSTONE: There have been complaints against the Pentagon, however I don't think the situations are analogous.
MARK REGEV: Why not?
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Because this is happening right next door! The, the level of tension and the need for information in Israel now must be hideously acute!
MARK REGEV: I feel exactly my point. You see if you're -if, if American journalists complain that the Pentagon isn't giving out enough information about a war that's going on thousands of miles away in Afghanistan, Israeli operations are going on two miles from Jerusalem! Next to neighborhoods where we live! Surely the military's need to keep some sort of operational secrecy is just as important if not more important.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Okay. With regard to the safety of journalists, you say the government has restricted the movements of journalists there in order to protect their safety. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe expressed concern Thursday over attacks on foreign journalists by the Israeli Army! The Brussels-based International Federation of Journalists on Tuesday criticized Israel. The Foreign Press Association in the UK. The Committee to Protect Journalists here in the U.S. -- even the BBC have all lodged complaints against the Israeli government!
MARK REGEV: I'm aware of those complaints, yes.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And there have been a number of incidents in the last few days that would support the notion that in some cases it seems as if journalists may actually be targeted!
MARK REGEV: I don't, I don't believe that the, that Israel deliberately targets journalists and in fact I know the contrary is the truth. I know that the army's standing orders deliberately forbid that. The army's standing orders say you have to let journalists conduct their work; that the chief of staff of the Israeli Army, the most senior Israeli man in uniform recently released an order and he re-stressed those orders once again that a free press is an integral part of a democratic society, and soldiers have to safeguard the press and allow them to do their job.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:If a person such as Colin Powell were to speak out against the current press crackdown, would it make a difference to the Israeli government?
MARK REGEV: First of all, we want there to be a free press. But to close in selected zones of fighting the area to civilian traffic including the press -- this is something that everyone does! I just can't see Colin Powell talking about this. There is no -- you know, the United States does reports about civil rights and press freedoms all around the world. These are regular reports that are published by the State Department on a yearly basis. No one claims that Israel muzzles the press. No one serious claims that!
BROOKE GLADSTONE:We can't ignore the, the stack of complaints from respected press organizations that are piled up here on my desk! Everyone is currently complaining about the crackdown in the West.
MARK REGEV: I'll, I'll, I'll tell you exactly what happens, and I see it every night on cable television. The area is closed to the press, and then of course every good journalist - and this I what they have to do cause this is what their professional responsibilities are - is they try to find a way in nevertheless. I've seen a number of the networks do that. And then the Israeli authorities have to say no, you can't go in, and sometimes there's an exchange between soldiers and journalists, but-- the same thing happens in any other situation. Once again, these - this is the rules of the game. This is the - how it's played, and I'm saying this is not without precedent that when there is fighting going on you close areas for the press!
BROOKE GLADSTONE:In, in response to your statement, any reporter worth his salt in order to fulfill his professional obligations would have to break Israeli law in order to cover the story of immense global importance and then risk getting tossed out of the country as a result is, is a country where a free press is not being allowed to operate!
MARK REGEV: I-- beg to disagree; and I'll a question -- we pull out of Ramallah tomorrow -- okay? We pull out of Ramallah tomorrow and we will pull out shortly - that's part of-- the operation's a limited operation. So the, the, the - the press can report freely what goes on in Ramallah when Mr. Arafat's in charge? Please.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: The foreign press will report what it sees!
MARK REGEV:What it sees and its eyes and ears there are Palestinian stringers who are Palestinian nationals who have all these constraints on them which, which everyone knows exist. Palestinian society is authoritarian society. Mr. Arafat is a dictator; it's - and as a result, the press is part of that authoritarian mechanism! And there are rules there to be taken. I think if you look at what Israel is doing under very difficult conditions of war and terrorism, I, I am - the press has remarkable access, remarkable freedom; I haven't seen a serious impediment on American journalists doing their job. I see hours of footage every night from Israel. That we close a specific area for operational needs -- this is legitimate. As I said, it's done by the Americans. It's done by the British-- and it's, and it's within the framework of the law.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: And too m-- [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
MARK REGEV: And if it's not I urge the press organizations to take the Israeli to the Supreme Court --maybe they'll win.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: All right. Mark Regev, thank you very much.
MARK REGEV: My pleasure.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Mark Regev is the spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington. [MUSIC]