BROOKE GLADSTONE: Across the country citizens have been forming Bill of Rights defense committees to fight what they consider the most pernicious curbs on liberties contained in the Patriot Act. Nancy Talanian is director of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee of Florence, Massachusetts and she joins me on the line from Northhampton, Mass. Welcome to the show!

NANCY TALANIAN: Thank you, Brooke.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: So I understand now about 92 cities have passed resolutions condemning the Patriot Act. What does your organization, if anything, have to do with that.

NANCY TALANIAN: We provide tools, advice and information to enable cities and towns that are interested in protecting their local residents' civil liberties to take action as part of a broad national movement.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:So far we're up to 92 that have become civil liberties safe zones. Do you know of any other cities that are working on the issue?

NANCY TALANIAN: Yes. There are more than 125 right now that we are aware of.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Additional cities.

NANCY TALANIAN: Yes.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: But doesn't federal law trump local law? Even if they pass these resolutions, aren't they pretty much symbolic and irrelevant in terms of a practical effect?

NANCY TALANIAN:Well a city or town government has an obligation to protect its residents and citizens, and it can do so by saying that our local law enforcement will not engage in racial and ethnic profiling as the basis for questioning people or detaining them without charges and without probable cause.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: And in so doing they would then basically be disregarding the instructions of federal law enforcement.

NANCY TALANIAN:Well the federal law enforcement could still come in if it had reason to and do the questioning and detentions themselves, but it's comforting to a lot of communities that their own tax dollars and their own local law enforcement won't be used to take their civil liberties away.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:We've been told that most Americans support what the government is doing to protect us. Do you sense a rising tide of dissent on this issue?

NANCY TALANIAN: Yes, I do by the number of cities that are passing resolutions and starting efforts in their communities. We are not dictating to communities what to do; they're coming to us of their own volition. They're educating their communities and they're deciding among themselves whether they're satisfied with the level of surveillance.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Ultimately it's up to Congress though to change the law. Do you think that this local action can have any impact on Congress?

NANCY TALANIAN:Definitely. I think that the strongest thing that we can do is ensure that there is a debate. There was no debate back in October of 2001, even in Congress, and also we hope we can have an impact on making sure there's a national debate before Patriot II-- the Domestic Security Enhancement Act is voted on by Congress.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: The contents of Patriot II-- were leaked to the press. What in that bill is particularly egregious in your opinion?

NANCY TALANIAN:There's a lot of secrecy involved. The opportunity for secret arrests, secret detentions and even secret executions doesn't sound like what we're used to when we hear liberty and justice for all. There's also the possibility of taking away citizenship and deporting even citizens -- not necessarily for terrorist acts, but it could be for people who disagree with the government.

BROOKE GLADSTONE:Most of the cities now involved in passing these civil liberties safe zones are clustered on the coasts -- what we always have called the blue parts of America. It seems that the red center stands squarely in favor of all these curbs to civil liberties if they think it's in the service of defense. Do you think there's any way in reaching the American mainstream or is this mostly a Democratic coastal phenomenon?

NANCY TALANIAN: I think that that's changing. When we first started, it's true that Massachusetts and California had the most resolutions passed. But now we are seeing more mainstream communities working on this. Already Minneapolis, Detroit, University City, Missouri are among the cities that have passed resolutions, and so I think that more communities are going to be taking action when they see what's happening to their rights.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: How did you get involved with this issue?

NANCY TALANIAN:I had worked to help end apartheid, and I had done work to help bring democracy to Nigeria, and when I heard terms like "military tribunals" it was reminiscent of what happened to Ken Saro-Wiwa and the Agoni activists who were hanged by the Nigerian military dictatorship, and when I heard about detentions without charges, without trial, it was reminiscent of how the apartheid government of South Africa treated the African people who were fighting for their freedom and felt this was not my country if this was the direction that we were going in, and I had to take action.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Nancy Talanian, thank you very much.

NANCY TALANIAN: Thank you, Brooke.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Nancy Talanian is the director of the Bill of Rights defense committee.

BOB GARFIELD: Coming up, how free speech is invading China on the back of a virus and why moviemakers keep returning to the Holocaust.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: This is On the Media from NPR.