Transcript
BROOKE GLADSTONE: As we examine trial you media here at home, an extraordinary case is convened across the ocean. This week the Economist magazine called the media court to order with an open letter to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi asking for answers to 28 questions about allegations that he bribed judges to block the sale of a state-owned food company in the mid-80s and other dodgy dealings throughout his political and business career. Most recently the courts have ruled that Berlusconi will be exempt from prosecution until he leaves office, and "So," wrote the Economist, "since the courts can no longer judge him, we invite the readers to decide whether his version fits the facts." The magazine's Editor in Chief Bill Emmott joins us now from the Economist's office in London. Bill, welcome to On the Media.
BILL EMMOTT: It's a pleasure to be with you.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: You wrote, and I have the quote here, "The Economist is concerned about Mr. Berlusconi both as an outrage against the Italian people and their judicial system and as Europe's most extreme case of the abuse by a capitalist of the democracy within which he lives and operates." These are pretty strong words!
BILL EMMOTT: They are, but I think he's a pretty strong case. Normally the right place to deal with these sort of things is the court. He has managed to use his political power to stop that, so that brings him back, if you like, into the court of public opinion and of the media. But second, he is someone who attacks something that's dear to The Economist's heart, namely capitalism and democracy. We're backers of business, but we think that people like Mr. Berlusconi discredit the very thing that we stand for, and by abusing democracy to further their business interests, they threaten faith in capitalism.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:You explained that you were printing the open letter because, and I have this quote, "We believe that having made claims that appear to be at variance to the evidence, Mr. Berlusconi must explain publicly why that evidence is wrong." Now, with regard to the controversy around Iraq intelligence, especially in the European press, might this also apply to our own president? And should we be expecting to see an open letter to Bush?
BILL EMMOTT: Well I think that George Bush does have to be answerable to the public for the claims that he made. I wouldn't say that it's right yet to judge whether they were false or not. But one question is whether or not there are plenty of other critics, and in the case of the White House, frankly I think there are plenty of them. In the case if Italy, Mr. Berlusconi himself owns quite a lot of the press; he controls the state television networks. So there is something of a gap of media criticism and challenge to him.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Last week the Italian newspaper La Stampa printed a commentary that suggested The Economist isn't applying the same harsh scrutiny to other European heads of state, and it mentions French President Jacques Chirac who enjoys immunity from prosecution as well as Tony Blair who, as we know, is currently at the eye of a political storm over pre-war intelligence. So is The Economist dealing with an even hand here?
BILL EMMOTT: Well I think so. Recently we had a cover which said "Tony Bliar? -- Is He a Liar?" Jacques Chirac we campaigned against the dropping of the corruption charges because of the immunity law. But neither he nor Tony Blair is actually as in as extreme a case as Berlusconi. Berlusconi is Italy's richest man with huge conflicts of interest. He is running through a communications law in Italy that directly benefits his own businesses. Chirac has never done that.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:What do you make of the other charges that have been levied against you by that Italian newspaper, La Stampa? For one thing it lists a number of cases that suggest that The Economist basically has a grudge against Italy, having attacked a long line of Italy's leaders. And it also stated that The Economist is trying to emulate the Watergate era Washington Post and seeks to, quote, "pass into history as the paper that made a foreign head of state capitulate." What say you?
BILL EMMOTT: Whoever wrote those pieces has drunk too much Chianti I think. [LAUGHTER] Frankly, we're not trying to "emulate" Watergate, but I think that Watergate was a noble investigative endeavor and all newspapers should do it, including La Stampa. Second, do we have a campaign against Italy? No! I don't think so. We love Italy. We write a lot of positive articles about Italy. Italy has had a lot of prime ministers in the last 40 or 50 years, rather a lot of corruption; and therefore there's been quite a lot of events and times in which it's been right to criticize it.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now this isn't the first time The Economist has gone after Berlusconi. After you launched your first salvo in 2001, declaring him "unfit to lead Italy," he sued The Economist for defamation, and now his company, the company allegedly at the center of the bribery scandal that you detailed in the magazine, has declared its intentions to sue. So -- are you worried?
BILL EMMOTT: Not particularly. He has sued on a previous occasion. He sued us jointly with an Italian newspaper called La Republica, which is owned by one of his opponents, and I'm told that he has got more than 300 lawsuits outstanding against Republica. He's just got one against The Economist and we might soon have two. So I've got a long way to go.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now Berlusconi has said repeatedly that he is the "victim of a political vendetta by left-leaning prosecutors." I have to ask you --how does it feel to be part of a "left-wing conspiracy?"
BILL EMMOTT: Well, it's new. [LAUGHTER] I'm usually considered to be part of a right-wing conspiracy.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Well, thank you very much, Bill.
BILL EMMOTT: A great pleasure.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Bill Emmott is the editor in chief of The Economist.
BOB GARFIELD: Coming up, spicing up commercial breaks with mini-movies and Big Brother breaks records abroad.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: This is On the Media from NPR.