Outfoxed
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BOB GARFIELD: Much as this news might surprise you, there are those who don't believe the Fox News Channel is fair and balanced. In fact, there are those who believe Fox News was conceived by News Corporation's Rupert Murdoch to be a house organ for the Republican Party. One such skeptic is Robert Greenwald, producer of Uncovered and more than 50 other documentaries whose new film, Outfoxed, propounds a theory of political propaganda in cable news clothing.
ROBERT GREENWALD: The hypothesis I went into this movie with was what would come out would be a conservative bias --although they claim to be fair and balanced, but at other times they say well we're a conservative network and we're balancing the other liberal networks. However, what I found, and I was actually quite troubled by it, is it's not a conservative network, it's a partisan network. They are not advocating a philosophy --conservatism. They are advocating the party in power -- Republican Party. That's dangerous in a democracy. It's particularly dangerous when it's hidden. And it is consistent with what News Corp. has done throughout the world -- there is a pattern to this which is, whether it's in Britain or Communist China, the News Corp., in an effort to maximize their funds, tends to align with the predominant party.
BOB GARFIELD: Now your film provides at least two kinds of evidence to support this premise. One is memo traffic from Fox News executives.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Correct. People have written about this a little bit, but it's kind of been like this semi-secret in the news world, that Fox News reporters, the writers, the producers get daily memos from John Moody which essentially guides them in how to look at the news and how to interpret the news. Why don't we play a few of these memos that we show and read in the movie now. [MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
MAN: Let's spend a good deal of time on the battle over judicial nominations which the president will address this morning -- nominees who both sides admit are qualified are being held up because of their possible, not demonstrated, views on one issue: abortion. This should be a trademark issue for FNC today and in the days to come.
MAN: The so-called 9/11 Commission has already been meeting. This is not "what did he know and when did he know it" stuff. Do not turn this into Watergate.
MAN: Let's refer to the U.S. Marines we see in the foreground as "sharpshooters," not "snipers," which carries a negative connotation.
ROBERT GREENWALD: They are being told how to look at news events, and that takes away, if you will, the freedom, the individuality of the news reporter, the writer, of the producer to look at material and say here's what I think is going on, because they were given guidelines.
BOB GARFIELD: And then there is the physical evidence itself -- the bloody glove. Does the glove fit?
ROBERT GREENWALD: I'm afraid that the glove fits all too well and fits uniquely to Fox News. Let's play the "flip-flop" section. In the film, what I do is I show the Republican National Committee website where they talk about "flip-flops," and then we go to, I don't know, 20, 30 of these quick clips where people are all saying "flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop."
MAN: He's flip-flopped on all these issues...
MAN: ...beneath Kerry's flip-flopping...
MAN: ...is an opportunistic flip-flopper.
MAN: You're talking flip-flops.
MAN: ...new brand of summer footwear, John Kerry flip-flops.
MAN: They say that he flip-flops a lot.
MAN: Well, he's flip-flopped now on every major issue...
WOMAN: Would those be the flip-flops?
MAN: Cause he's flip-flopped on everything else.
MAN: Is Senator Kerry guilty of flip-flopping on the issues?
MAN: He flip-flops like crazy.
MAN: First of all, flip-flop...
MAN: You've seen him flip-flop on a whole variety of issues...
MAN: ...opportunistic flip-flopper who doesn't have any principles. Is that a little harsh?
ROBERT GREENWALD: Iraq -- there's a section in the movie called "Happy Iraq," because for months, all you got on Fox News was "Happy Iraq." The reason? The president had said, as you may remember, "The good news is not getting through the (quote) "filter." Well, Fox made darn sure that that wasn't a problem for them, and over and over again -- almost, if it wasn't so tragic, almost to the point of humor -- you would see examples of, you know, two people having a good time someplace in Iraq, and that would be the story. [MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
MAN: The Baghdad Equestrian Club is open for business, and yes, [CROWD CHEERING BACKGROUND] you can play these ponies. It's the Iraq you don't hear about -- falling unemployment, rising wages, interest rates down, foreign investment up.
MAN: Life, for 95 percent of the Iraqis, is already immeasurably better than it was under the decades of Saddam's rule. You go to the markets -- they're thriving -- big, fat fish coming out of the Tigris and the Euphrates River.
BOB GARFIELD: Now, Robert, of course it is very easy for us on this show to pick a handful of what seems to be incriminating examples out of context of everything that Fox News Channel broadcasts 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Are you satisfied that, from your point of view as an advocate, that you are fairly representing the bulk of Fox News Channels coverage, or have you just selected the nastiest bits of tape to paint them in the worst possible way?
ROBERT GREENWALD: No, I actually didn't select the nastiest bits of tape, because that would have almost been unbelievable. There is no other news ch-- I defy anyone to try to do this with another news channel, cause they don't do it. You don't have your newscasters and your commentators, Sean Hannity, going on camera and saying "Only 220 days till George Bush is re-elected." [TAPE PLAYS]
SEAN HANNITY: Only 217 days and counting until George W. Bush is re-elected...
ROBERT GREENWALD: You don't have people cutting off microphones, you don't have people insulting people...
BILL O'REILLY: I'm asking you to shut up about sex. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
MAN: ...African-American student...
BILL O'REILLY: No, no, no, no -- shut up.
MAN: Want to know what I was doing?
BILL O'REILLY: Shut up.
MAN: Oh, please don't tell me to shut up. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
BILL O'REILLY: ...respect is respect -- why did you have to tell them you were an atheist, if you didn't have any trouble reading the oath -- why didn't you just shut up?
ROBERT GREENWALD: You don't have the statistics that Fox News comes up with that nobody else has. This is a consistent way that they tell the news.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, so from your perspective an embarrassment of riches. But interestingly enough, an embarrassment of riches that belongs to News Corp. and Fox News Channel. Have you gone to the network and asked for permission to use this material in your film?
ROBERT GREENWALD: I have not gone to Fox News and asked for permission to use this material.
BOB GARFIELD: Which raises the legal issue of fair use, and whether, as a documentarian or a journalist or a satirist or whatever you are in this role, you have the permission to liberally co-opt this material for your purposes. What do your lawyers tell you?
ROBERT GREENWALD: Well, this film cannot exist without those clips. Writing them down and putting them - a book wouldn't do it. You've got to see it -you've got to hear the voice, the music, the way it's cut -- all of those things are essential to telling this story. And to me, in my limited knowledge, that is fair use, if you will, and also the only way that the film could possibly happen. I didn't ask Fox for permission, because I was certain they would turn me down, and they're not known for being shy about lawsuits, which I did not want until at least we were able to finish the film. Now that the film has been completed, I'm happy to do whatever I can so that it can receive the widest possible audience.
BOB GARFIELD: Well Michael Moore has won the Palme D'Or at Cannes and got rather extraordinary distribution theatrically for Fahrenheit 9/11. I guess you're not quite so fortunate. You're taking a slightly less conventional route to getting your film into the hands and minds of your audience.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Yes. When I did Uncovered, I discovered that this alternative distribution is wonderful. Uncovered went out through screenings set up by the Center for American Progress, on line through Move On and other groups, and then after all of that, it wound up getting theatrical, so Uncovered will be in the movie theaters this summer. Who knows what will happen with Outfoxed? But my first goal is to get it out quickly to as many people as possible where the gatekeepers don't slow me down or stop me, and from that point of view, this alternative distribution is a really terrific tool that we have available to us. So for me, it's actually a cause for celebration.
BOB GARFIELD: Oh, shut up. Sorry, I've, I've always wanted to, to say that too. [LAUGHTER] Robert, thank you very much. Good luck with your film.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Okay.
BOB GARFIELD: Robert Greenwald is director and producer of Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism. [MUSIC]
BOB GARFIELD: That's it for this week's show. On the Media was directed by Katya Rogers and produced by Janeen Price, Megan Ryan and Tony Field, and edited by Brooke. Dylan Keefe is our technical director and Jennifer Munson our engineer. We had help from Anne Kosseff and Mike Vuolo, and editing help from Sharon Ball. Our webmaster is Amy Pearl. Arun Rath is our senior producer and Dean Cappello our executive producer. Bassist/composer Ben Allison wrote our theme. You can listen to the program and get free transcripts and MP3 downloads at onthemedia.org, and email us at onthemedia@wnyc.org. This is On the Media, from NPR. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD: And I'm Bob Garfield. [MUSIC TAG]
ROBERT GREENWALD: The hypothesis I went into this movie with was what would come out would be a conservative bias --although they claim to be fair and balanced, but at other times they say well we're a conservative network and we're balancing the other liberal networks. However, what I found, and I was actually quite troubled by it, is it's not a conservative network, it's a partisan network. They are not advocating a philosophy --conservatism. They are advocating the party in power -- Republican Party. That's dangerous in a democracy. It's particularly dangerous when it's hidden. And it is consistent with what News Corp. has done throughout the world -- there is a pattern to this which is, whether it's in Britain or Communist China, the News Corp., in an effort to maximize their funds, tends to align with the predominant party.
BOB GARFIELD: Now your film provides at least two kinds of evidence to support this premise. One is memo traffic from Fox News executives.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Correct. People have written about this a little bit, but it's kind of been like this semi-secret in the news world, that Fox News reporters, the writers, the producers get daily memos from John Moody which essentially guides them in how to look at the news and how to interpret the news. Why don't we play a few of these memos that we show and read in the movie now. [MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
MAN: Let's spend a good deal of time on the battle over judicial nominations which the president will address this morning -- nominees who both sides admit are qualified are being held up because of their possible, not demonstrated, views on one issue: abortion. This should be a trademark issue for FNC today and in the days to come.
MAN: The so-called 9/11 Commission has already been meeting. This is not "what did he know and when did he know it" stuff. Do not turn this into Watergate.
MAN: Let's refer to the U.S. Marines we see in the foreground as "sharpshooters," not "snipers," which carries a negative connotation.
ROBERT GREENWALD: They are being told how to look at news events, and that takes away, if you will, the freedom, the individuality of the news reporter, the writer, of the producer to look at material and say here's what I think is going on, because they were given guidelines.
BOB GARFIELD: And then there is the physical evidence itself -- the bloody glove. Does the glove fit?
ROBERT GREENWALD: I'm afraid that the glove fits all too well and fits uniquely to Fox News. Let's play the "flip-flop" section. In the film, what I do is I show the Republican National Committee website where they talk about "flip-flops," and then we go to, I don't know, 20, 30 of these quick clips where people are all saying "flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop."
MAN: He's flip-flopped on all these issues...
MAN: ...beneath Kerry's flip-flopping...
MAN: ...is an opportunistic flip-flopper.
MAN: You're talking flip-flops.
MAN: ...new brand of summer footwear, John Kerry flip-flops.
MAN: They say that he flip-flops a lot.
MAN: Well, he's flip-flopped now on every major issue...
WOMAN: Would those be the flip-flops?
MAN: Cause he's flip-flopped on everything else.
MAN: Is Senator Kerry guilty of flip-flopping on the issues?
MAN: He flip-flops like crazy.
MAN: First of all, flip-flop...
MAN: You've seen him flip-flop on a whole variety of issues...
MAN: ...opportunistic flip-flopper who doesn't have any principles. Is that a little harsh?
ROBERT GREENWALD: Iraq -- there's a section in the movie called "Happy Iraq," because for months, all you got on Fox News was "Happy Iraq." The reason? The president had said, as you may remember, "The good news is not getting through the (quote) "filter." Well, Fox made darn sure that that wasn't a problem for them, and over and over again -- almost, if it wasn't so tragic, almost to the point of humor -- you would see examples of, you know, two people having a good time someplace in Iraq, and that would be the story. [MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
MAN: The Baghdad Equestrian Club is open for business, and yes, [CROWD CHEERING BACKGROUND] you can play these ponies. It's the Iraq you don't hear about -- falling unemployment, rising wages, interest rates down, foreign investment up.
MAN: Life, for 95 percent of the Iraqis, is already immeasurably better than it was under the decades of Saddam's rule. You go to the markets -- they're thriving -- big, fat fish coming out of the Tigris and the Euphrates River.
BOB GARFIELD: Now, Robert, of course it is very easy for us on this show to pick a handful of what seems to be incriminating examples out of context of everything that Fox News Channel broadcasts 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Are you satisfied that, from your point of view as an advocate, that you are fairly representing the bulk of Fox News Channels coverage, or have you just selected the nastiest bits of tape to paint them in the worst possible way?
ROBERT GREENWALD: No, I actually didn't select the nastiest bits of tape, because that would have almost been unbelievable. There is no other news ch-- I defy anyone to try to do this with another news channel, cause they don't do it. You don't have your newscasters and your commentators, Sean Hannity, going on camera and saying "Only 220 days till George Bush is re-elected." [TAPE PLAYS]
SEAN HANNITY: Only 217 days and counting until George W. Bush is re-elected...
ROBERT GREENWALD: You don't have people cutting off microphones, you don't have people insulting people...
BILL O'REILLY: I'm asking you to shut up about sex. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
MAN: ...African-American student...
BILL O'REILLY: No, no, no, no -- shut up.
MAN: Want to know what I was doing?
BILL O'REILLY: Shut up.
MAN: Oh, please don't tell me to shut up. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]
BILL O'REILLY: ...respect is respect -- why did you have to tell them you were an atheist, if you didn't have any trouble reading the oath -- why didn't you just shut up?
ROBERT GREENWALD: You don't have the statistics that Fox News comes up with that nobody else has. This is a consistent way that they tell the news.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, so from your perspective an embarrassment of riches. But interestingly enough, an embarrassment of riches that belongs to News Corp. and Fox News Channel. Have you gone to the network and asked for permission to use this material in your film?
ROBERT GREENWALD: I have not gone to Fox News and asked for permission to use this material.
BOB GARFIELD: Which raises the legal issue of fair use, and whether, as a documentarian or a journalist or a satirist or whatever you are in this role, you have the permission to liberally co-opt this material for your purposes. What do your lawyers tell you?
ROBERT GREENWALD: Well, this film cannot exist without those clips. Writing them down and putting them - a book wouldn't do it. You've got to see it -you've got to hear the voice, the music, the way it's cut -- all of those things are essential to telling this story. And to me, in my limited knowledge, that is fair use, if you will, and also the only way that the film could possibly happen. I didn't ask Fox for permission, because I was certain they would turn me down, and they're not known for being shy about lawsuits, which I did not want until at least we were able to finish the film. Now that the film has been completed, I'm happy to do whatever I can so that it can receive the widest possible audience.
BOB GARFIELD: Well Michael Moore has won the Palme D'Or at Cannes and got rather extraordinary distribution theatrically for Fahrenheit 9/11. I guess you're not quite so fortunate. You're taking a slightly less conventional route to getting your film into the hands and minds of your audience.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Yes. When I did Uncovered, I discovered that this alternative distribution is wonderful. Uncovered went out through screenings set up by the Center for American Progress, on line through Move On and other groups, and then after all of that, it wound up getting theatrical, so Uncovered will be in the movie theaters this summer. Who knows what will happen with Outfoxed? But my first goal is to get it out quickly to as many people as possible where the gatekeepers don't slow me down or stop me, and from that point of view, this alternative distribution is a really terrific tool that we have available to us. So for me, it's actually a cause for celebration.
BOB GARFIELD: Oh, shut up. Sorry, I've, I've always wanted to, to say that too. [LAUGHTER] Robert, thank you very much. Good luck with your film.
ROBERT GREENWALD: Okay.
BOB GARFIELD: Robert Greenwald is director and producer of Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism. [MUSIC]
BOB GARFIELD: That's it for this week's show. On the Media was directed by Katya Rogers and produced by Janeen Price, Megan Ryan and Tony Field, and edited by Brooke. Dylan Keefe is our technical director and Jennifer Munson our engineer. We had help from Anne Kosseff and Mike Vuolo, and editing help from Sharon Ball. Our webmaster is Amy Pearl. Arun Rath is our senior producer and Dean Cappello our executive producer. Bassist/composer Ben Allison wrote our theme. You can listen to the program and get free transcripts and MP3 downloads at onthemedia.org, and email us at onthemedia@wnyc.org. This is On the Media, from NPR. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD: And I'm Bob Garfield. [MUSIC TAG]
Produced by WNYC Studios