BROOKE GLADSTONE: Now, Air America's business model is very different from that of most conservative talk radio in that it chose to lease air time in some big markets, rather than to grow its carriage gradually. But another liberal talk show host took the more traditional route, eventually picking up dozens of stations without paying for air time. His name is Ed Schultz. He's a political convert. He used to have a right wing talk show, and if you're not paying close attention to what he's actually saying, he sounds a lot like the guy Air America said was the man to beat. Here's

RUSH LIMBAUGH:

RUSH LIMBAUGH: They are liberals, and this is how they have woven their fabric. They don't get the - their extremism passed and signed into law legislatively. They do it via courts and judges.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Here's Ed Schultz.

ED SCHULTZ: This is a power grab by the neocons. This is all about trying to prove to them that they are compassionate, despite the fact that this is the same crowd that last week was talking about cutting Medicare and Medicaid.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Limbaugh---

RUSH LIMBAUGH: They are liberals, and this is how they have woven their fabric.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Schultz.

ED SCHULTZ: This is a power grab by the neocons.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Is Ed Schultz the Limbaugh of the Left? He joins me now, from Fargo. Ed, welcome to On the Media.

ED SCHULTZ: Brooke, thank you.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: First of all, how's your show doing?

ED SCHULTZ: Show's doing really well. We started on two stations - Needles, California and Langdon, North Dakota on January 4th of '04, and 15 months later we're now in 80 markets, in 8 out of the top 10. It's really the fastest-growing show since Limbaugh got going.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: And to what do you attribute that?

ED SCHULTZ: It's very little to do with politics if a show is going to be successful. Only 10 percent of the people that come to a radio show do it for political gratification. They've got to have entertainment, relevant information, got to be able to communicate, caller interaction, you gotta have pace, you have to move the show. Program directors and general managers don't say - Hey! Here's Ed Schultz. He's a progressive. Let's put him on the air. I mean if it doesn't sound good, if it doesn't have the qualities of a good radio show, it's not going to go anywhere.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Now, we've had you on the show before, talking about your political conversion. I know some people have suggested that this was self-interested. Why did you switch?

ED SCHULTZ: You know, when I went into a homeless clinic in 1998, the one that my wife managed in Fargo, I met Vietnam veterans and started asking questions. When I saw health care costs that are going through the roof, and really, the Republicans doing absolutely nothing to turn the tide on that, I finally went on the air one day in about 2001 and said you know what - I, I am a Democrat! I am a Liberal! I cannot align myself with what is happening right now in this neocon, this conservative-driven agenda that is storming Washington.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Now, Ed, Rush Limbaugh is widely credited with helping to usher in the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994. If talk radio has that kind of power, is it fair to say that liberal talk radio just didn't deliver in 2004?

ED SCHULTZ: Well, politically speaking, the righties, as I call them, the Limbaughs, he's got a 15, 16 year start on all this. And he's good! He is a professional communicator. And with that, the Republican agenda has nurtured the audio culture of the country. The Democrats are way behind the curve. The Democratic Party is way out of touch. Terry did as much to defeat himself, in my opinion, as Rush Limbaugh or conservative talker in this country did to defeat him. The Democrats, the liberals, they gotta get in this game. It's called repetitive message. They gotta talk to Joe Beer Can. They gotta figure out how to talk to middle America. They gotta make it simple for them to understand. They gotta connect with their values. I've got it figured out. That's why my show is growing. I know how to say I'm a gun-totin' meat-eatin' leftie, and damn proud of it. [LAUGHTER]

BROOKE GLADSTONE: And talk radio, I think you'll agree, is by nature, or at least by convention, pretty confrontational, and there's a sort of anger. Some have even said a kind of rage. And it's often been said that liberals just don't know how to rage well.

ED SCHULTZ: Passion, rage - you have got to be able to interact and be quick with your facts and your opinions. Two of the most important words in talk radio are you and your, because every listener that goes to the dial says, okay, what's in this for me? What's in this for my family? And am I enjoying what I hear right now? That's what radio listeners are doing. I'm not prepared to be the governor of New York. I don't want to be the governor of New York. I want to be a talk show host. I can't speak for the other people, that they've tried to do this in the past-

BROOKE GLADSTONE: You're talking about Mario Cuomo's radio program.

ED SCHULTZ: Of course. He's not a radio professional. He doesn't understand cum. He doesn't understand quarter-hour and how to keep it. And how to promo, and how to move the show. This is a skill that you have to learn and know how to do. You just can't grab a microphone and say, "Hey, I'm a liberal. I think I'll do a talk show." It doesn't work that way. [LAUGHS]

BROOKE GLADSTONE: What's your opinion, then, of Air America?

ED SCHULTZ: I have no opinion of Air America. They got their shop; I got mine.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Okay. Back when you were a conservative talk show host, were the callers different?

ED SCHULTZ: Oh, don't kid yourself. Lefties can get mean too. [LAUGHTER]

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Ed, thank you very much.

ED SCHULTZ: My pleasure.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Ed Schultz is host of the Ed Schultz Show: Straight Talk from the Heartland. [THEME MUSIC UP & UNDER]

BOB GARFIELD: 58:00 That's it for this week's show. On the Media was produced by Megan Ryan, Tony Field, Jamie York and Mike Vuolo, and edited by- Brooke. Dylan Keefe is our technical director and Jennifer Munson our engineer, with help this week from Rob Christensen. Our interns are Susanna Dillaplane and Nick Gilewicz. Our webmaster is Amy Pearl.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Katya Rogers is our senior producer and Dean Cappello our executive producer. Bassist/composer Ben Allison wrote our theme. You can listen to the program and find free transcripts, MP3 downloads and our podcast at onthemedia.org, and email us at onthemedia@wnyc.org. This is On the Media, from WNYC. I'm Brooke Gladstone.

BOB GARFIELD: And I'm Bob Garfield.