A quick content warning — this episode discusses suicide.
TOBIN: Who’s the best podcast host there ever was?
“KATHY”: Why, you are, Tobin!
TOBIN: Kathy, stop it! It’s too much. It’s too much!
Okay, just kidding. It’s just me, folks. Kathy is still feeling a little under the weather. Do not worry, she’s doing fine — she just needed a little bit to rest. So today it’s just gonna be me flying solo.
[NANCY HORN FLOURISHES PLAY]
I don’t know about you, but I have been fantasizing about the day we get to stop self-isolating, you know, when we get to go out in the world and see each other again.
For some of you, that moment will be about hanging with your friends again, maybe reuniting with some family, going to your favorite bar.
And for others, it will mean getting to go out and freaking date again! [BEAT] I know, that whole mess can be not so fun, or just something you’re not interested in! Totally fair! But for those of you who are out on the dating scene, you know that when you meet the right person or persons, it can be magic.
So today, I thought I’d offer up a love story that falls in that second category, the magic kind. Should we start the show?
“KATHY”: Let’s do it, Tobin!
[NANCY THEME MUSIC PLAYS]
VOX 1: From WNYC Studios, you’re listening to Nancy.
VOX 2: With your hosts, Tobin Low and — [MUSIC OUT FOR A MOMENT] just Tobin Low this week!
[THEME MUSIC PLAYS OUT, WHISTLE]
TOBIN: So, okay. The other day, I was listening to this podcast called Other Men Need Help. It’s hosted by this guy Mark.
[UPBEAT GUITAR MUSIC PLAYS]
MARK: My name is Mark Pagán. I'm 40 years old, and I live in New York City.
TOBIN: I would describe Mark’s podcast as, like, the thoughtful man’s exploration of masculinity. He talks to other men about all kinds of things: fashion, family, money — and love. Which brings us to one of Mark’s recent guests, and the star of our love story, a very good friend of his named Richard.
[FAIRYTALE SPARKLE SOUND PLAYS]
RICHARD: I’m Richard Cardillo. I'm 61 years old and I've lived for the last 30 years on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.
TOBIN: Mark says there’s a couple things to know about Richard.
RICHARD: [LAUGHS HEARTILY, FOR A LONG TIME]
TOBIN: Number One, he’s got a great laugh. Number Two, he’s just got this, like, great physical presence.
MARK: He's got this great spaghetti gut. You just want to rub your head on it. [LAUGHS] He exudes warmth in his body.
TOBIN: And Number Three, at the age of 61, Richard was fed up with the gay dating scene in New York.
RICHARD: I was using Grindr, Scruff, all of them. I had a lot of one-night stand kind of stuff. But it just wasn't happening. So I kind of decided at that point that I was just going to be a single man for the rest of my life.
Then I had one final push. A friend said, “Try one more time, and just go on a lot of dates at once and see what happens.”
TOBIN: And so Mark — being a good friend — he offers to be Richard’s go-to guy when he needs to vent about his dating life.
MARK: We took another step in our friendship and — and did something which I don't do with many friends now, which is, like, open up the phone line.
[PHONE CALL CLIP STARTS]
RICHARD: Hi, this is Richard.
MARK: Richard, this is Mark. Can you hear me?
RICHARD: I can hear you perfectly. Let me just give a shoutout to my Airbnb guest that I’m going on a phone call.
RICHARD: [MUFFLED, AT A DISTANCE] So you have a great day, okay?
[PHONE CALL CLIP ENDS]
[HI-HAT MUSIC IN]
MARK: We'd get on, the phone rang. It’s like, “Alright. Let's hope for the best here.” And then he’d say, “Well, I got this other date coming.” And I’d say, “You got this.”
TOBIN: So it's almost like you were a coach [BOTH LAUGH] in a corner, toweling him off, giving him some water.
MARK: It felt that way at times.
TOBIN: Richard would sometimes call Mark before a date, sometimes after. And they’d talk through all aspects of dating, like insecurity.
RICHARD: The other thing I tend to do with anybody — whether they’re younger, older, match or not a match — is, I just think, “Nothing’s gonna come of it. This is not the one, this is not the one.”
[HORNS ENTER THE MUSIC]
TOBIN: They’d also talk about the brutal dates …
RICHARD: But I had a date!
MARK: Oh! How’d it go?
RICHARD: Well, I’ll start from the very beginning. [CONTINUES TALKING UNDER TOBIN]
TOBIN: … like, there was the guy who would not shut up about his mom.
RICHARD: He talked an awful lot about his mother. [LAUGHS]
MARK: [CURIOUS] Okay.
RICHARD: And she’s living in Staten Island. But he talked about how she approves of her son getting a doctorate.
TOBIN: … there were dates he turned down.
RICHARD: He’s a smoker.
MARK: [REALIZATION] Ahh!
RICHARD: And I went “Oh shit, no.” And that kind of is a fucking dealbreaker for me.
TOBIN: And there was at least one date that started well, but then it would suddenly take a turn.
RICHARD: And he looked at me and he said “Well, Richard, it was really great meeting you.” And he stood up!
RICHARD: I’m like, “I think this date is over.” He didn’t say anything about a next date. So I said to him, “It was nice to meeting you, too. Maybe we could get together for a dinner.” And he just nodded. He didn’t even say, “We’ll see you.” He said, “Thanks, and have a great evening.” And he walked out. I’m like, “What the fuck just happened.”
[MUSIC PLAYS UP, LYRICS COME IN FOR A MOMENT, AND THEN IT PLAYS OUT]
TOBIN: But the whole time, Richard was unfazed.
RICHARD: [LAUGHS] So, I didn’t sweat it too too much.
TOBIN: Because, you know, yes, dating sucks. But at 61, this wasn’t Richard’s first time on the merry-go-round. He’s lived a whole life, including hookups, including romance, including a rocky coming out.
RICHARD: I was one of nine children in a large, Italian, Catholic family. And, uh, I kind of knew by high school that I was gay, but that just wasn't an option. So I went the religious route and I made this big decision at the age of 16 that I was going to dedicate my life to Jesus, and at the age of 17, I entered a monastery of Catholic monks and took a vow of celibacy.
TOBIN: Richard served as a monk into his early 30s. And then finally, after all those years of suppressing his sexuality, he came out, left the church, and moved to New York.
RICHARD: I felt out of sorts. I felt like I didn't know what kind of a gay I was. I mean, I joke about it. I said, “Well, I wasn't a Chelsea Gay, and I wasn't a gym rat gay.” And I wasn't really a bear yet because I was pretty skinny then. How times have changed! And, uh — you know, I just didn't know where my niche was. I just couldn't find what it meant to be gay.
TOBIN: But Richard was determined to get out there and figure out what kind of gay he was. One of the places he did that was a bar called The Spike.
[CLUB MUSIC IN]
RICHARD: And it had a backroom. And their backroom — I remember, it was known as “the Car Wash” because it had the ceiling-to-floor plastic strips that separated it from the bar area. So I went back there and I just put my back against the wall … and I just was so afraid somebody was gonna either, you know, rob me or molest me.
And a guy approached me and he touched me and I jumped.
TOBIN: Richard remembers two things about this guy very clearly.
[MUSIC BECOMES MAGICAL, MYSTICAL]
RICHARD: He had really long shoulder-length hair, pulled back in a ponytail. And I got close enough to him to see these steely blue eyes.
And he started talking to me in this beautiful Southern drawl and laughing. He was — he said, you know, “What in the world are you doing?” And I said, “I'm afraid you're gonna rob my wallet.” He said, “I'm not going to rob your wallet.”
TOBIN: Maybe it was the dim lights of that backroom, or maybe it was just his Southern drawl, but Richard felt an immediate attraction to this guy.
RICHARD: But when I first met him what really — really, you know, attracted me to him was the sense of integrity and dignity that he had. He did not make excuses for being in that backroom at The Spike. That's where he belonged. And for me, I was in backrooms and feeling I should leave those backrooms and jump right back into a confessional box.
TOBIN: His name was Peter. He had been disowned by his family in Selma, Alabama, before moving to New York. He ran his own landscaping business. And by the time they met in the bar that night, he had already lost two partners to AIDS. This was in the ‘90s, so the AIDS crisis was in full swing. But Peter was endlessly confident, and that’s what Richard really needed.
RICHARD: Feeling so comfortable with him right from the beginning was really a beautiful thing for me, and it just attracted me to him that much more. So by the time we went back to the bar and he was plowing me with beers, one after the other after the other, I was smitten already.
TOBIN: Richard did the only thing you should do when you meet a stranger with a ponytail and steel blue eyes in the back of a bar — he fell in love. And their relationship helped Richard make up for some of that lost time. When Peter said they should move in together, he learned how to live with a boyfriend. Peter’s confidence helped him get over his shame around being gay. And maybe more than anything, Peter taught him how to really be there for a partner. Because early on in their relationship, Peter admitted he hadn’t been tested for HIV, even though two of his partners had died from it. And Richard kept telling him, you know, “You have to get tested. We have to know for sure.”
RICHARD: So we made the appointment and then he got the phone call. “We have your results. Please come in.” And I went with him, and I remember it was on 11th and Broadway at a clinic.
RICHARD: And we both went up together. He went into the office and I just stayed out, just scared as could be. And he came out with a white face, and he said, “Let’s just go.”
[GENTLE MUSIC PLAYS FOR A MOMENT, THEN STOPS]
RICHARD: And we went down the stairs — and we were only, like, fifteen blocks from the apartment — and he started crying right away. He said, “I'm positive and I'm gonna die.”
And I started crying, and that's the first time he said, “Please just don't leave me.”
TOBIN: Richard did not leave. He knew what the disease could do. He worked for God’s Love We Deliver, an organization that provided meals to AIDS patients. He had seen what might be ahead. But he wasn’t afraid.
So they kept building a life together. They went to ACT UP protests together, they hosted dinners together, they bought a small cottage with a big garden in upstate New York together.
RICHARD: We’d invite family up there, friends up there. Every other weekend we’d have visitors coming up with us. And Peter would garden like crazy as well.
[GENTLE STRING MUSIC PLAYS]
TOBIN: But maybe their biggest accomplishment — the one that Richard is most proud of — is that they both made sure their relationship was nurturing to the people around them, to encourage other people to feel their love as well. Richard calls it “generativity.”
RICHARD: I truly did believe that we tapped into generativity, and our love was allowing other people to love, and was making love grow in all other areas.
TOBIN: And most importantly, Peter managed to stay healthy. 18 years went by, and they were still together, still making trips upstate to the cottage. It felt like they had gotten past so much as a couple. And so it was a complete surprise when a new challenge arrived — one that neither of them was prepared for.
Nancy will be back in a moment.
[MUSIC PLAYS OUT]
TOBIN: It’s 2004. Richard and Peter have been together for as long as either of them can remember. And Peter was able to stay healthy in spite of his HIV diagnosis. It feels like they’ve managed, together, to beat this thing — which is why neither of them could really expect what would happen next. Peter starts to have these really intense mood swings. And the lows were really low. Eventually, he was diagnosed with severe depression and bipolar disorder.
TOBIN: I’m wondering, what — what was that like for you?
RICHARD: Um. Real confusion. That scared me more than his HIV/AIDS diagnosis.
There was one night that he just was so worried about a job, he was not making sense. And then he couldn’t get out of bed the next day. And, uh … I went to work that day and I went to work the next day and came back, and he still hadn't left the bed. And he said, “I think I need help.”
TOBIN: When he was in a depressive state, what — what would happen?
RICHARD: Real sullenness. It did get to the point of tears at time, where he just break down bawling … uh, inability to cope with simple things in life, like, uh … I remember one time we woke up and we went to move the car and it had a flat tire and he just couldn't deal with that.
We talked about it an awful lot and I said, “What was that like for you?” And he said, “It's like [PAUSE] life has no flavor. There is no salt on the food. It's just life — it's just in two tones, black and white.”
TOBIN: Over the years, Peter would go in and out of treatment. He’d try different medications. Sometimes he’d get better. But his down swings got much, much worse. He attempted suicide four times before he finally was committed to a psychiatric hospital.
RICHARD: He was in the Secaucus psychiatric hospital for five months, so that’s — you know, visiting him every night, and him just barely being able to say, “I gotta beat this.” By that time, he was a shell. This was really difficult to see this man who was just so vibrant — this man who just captivated me with his integrity and his dignity — just reduced to a shell.
[HOPEFUL, WISTFUL MUSIC PLAYS]
TOBIN: Fall of 2012 …
RICHARD: I went to work. I gave him this prolonged kiss goodbye. Um, we talked about — one of our therapies was cooking meals together every night. So I'd come home from work, we'd cook a meal together. And, um, I kissed him goodbye, I said, “I'll pick up salmon for tonight.” I'll never forget that. And I went to work. And about noon, I get this phone call from him. I see it pop up on my cell phone, and I answer — and this wind, and traffic, and just noise. I said, “Where the fuck are you?” He said, “I just wanted to call, see if everything's okay for tonight.” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Well, I love you.” [PAUSE] And I said, “Okay.” He hung up and I hung up and I didn't feel good about that at all so I left work and I, um, went home. And about three hours after that phone call, I get the knock on the door from two police officers … [DEEP, SLOW INHALE]
I remember, after they said, “We have the body,” I said, “Peter, you finally did it.”
[MUSIC SLOWLY CHANGES]
RICHARD: But I certainly was wallowing for the first 48 hours and just anger. Like, screaming, “Fuck you! Who the fuck do ou think you are to take your life and not try?“ Um … that did go away when I did have the realization that he never stopped trying. [DEEP INHALE] He couldn't try anymore. He just couldn't.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
TOBIN: After he died, how did you picture the rest of your life?
RICHARD: Right after he died, I just threw myself into work. And I think I stayed away from the grief and the mourning process by just burying myself in work, and volunteer work, and protesting, and whatever, just not to think of this.
TOBIN: But there was only so long Richard could avoid the fact that Peter wasn’t coming back. Life, in the cruel way that it does, kept moving forward. But eventually, after a couple of years had gone by, Richard realized that there could be promise in moving on as well. That as much as he would never find another Peter, he might find someone else.
RICHARD: I think that realizing that life was gonna go on, that I had to keep moving. And my real close friends kept saying that “you gotta — you gotta get back to life.”
TOBIN: Did you find yourself thinking of Peter at all — as you were getting back out there?
RICHARD: In a couple of different ways, I kinda would talk to him through it like, you know, “What did you — spoil me, now,” you know? “Give me a little bit of a — a little bit of juju from beyond that I can finally meet somebody.” [LAUGHS]
TOBIN: [CHUCKLING LIGHTLY] Mhm.
RICHARD: So I talked to him.
TOBIN: That sort of reminds me of — have you — do you know Hello, Dolly at all?
RICHARD: Oh my goodness!
TOBIN: Okay, quick musical theater nerd explanation. Uh, Hello, Dolly is a musical — I know, I’m sorry Kathy for whenever you hear this. Anyway, it is all about Dolly Levi, a matchmaker and widow whose late husband is named Ephram. Throughout the show, Dolly has these monologues where she’s talking to her late husband —
[CLIP FROM HELLO, DOLLY BEGINS WHILE GENTLE, OLD STRING MUSIC PLAYS BEHIND]
DOLLY: Ephram, let me go. It’s been long enough, Ephram.
TOBIN: — telling him that she’s ready to find love again.
DOLLY: I’ve begun to realize that [SIGHS] for a long time, I have not shed one tear.
TOBIN: And what she asks of him is basically to let her know it’s okay to move on.
DOLLY: But I would feel so much better about it if — if you could just give me a sign, any kind of a sign that you approve.
[CLIP FROM HELLO, DOLLY ENDS]
RICHARD: “Ephram, give me a sign.” And that's what I felt like. I felt like that. “Give me a sign, Peter, would you give me a sign?”
TOBIN: And this was the state of mind that Richard was in when he started his regular phone check-ins with Mark about two years ago, when he embarked on his string of completely “meh” dates to find love again. Richard was ready for his sign.
MARK: Alright. September 10th, four o’clock. Calling Richard.
RICHARD: Hi, Mark.
MARK: Hi, Richard. How’s it going?
RICHARD: I had this really, really [PAUSE] hopeful date!
TOBIN: The date’s name is Joel. He’s 70, a playwright, and like Richard, he’s a widower. He lost his partner of 35 years not too long ago. Also like Richard, he’s trying to get back out there to find someone he could settle down with. They meet up for breakfast at the Waverly Diner in the West Village. Richard arrived late and sweaty. Joel said he liked sweat. They hit it off.
RICHARD: You know, and I’m kind of pulling the typical Richard Cardillo shit, saying, “Okay, what are you going to find wrong about this now, Richard? What is it that’s bad about this? I don’t like his teeth.” Or something stupid like that.
RICHARD: But he was — I — I couldn't come back with anything. He was really just engaging. So engaging! In fact, we left a triple tip for the waiter, because we went from breakfast to lunch — we met at 10, and we went until 12 when they were trying to clear tables.
TOBIN: Richard says they’ve even planned on a second date. He’s not sure exactly where. He just knows it’s a diner that Joel likes in his neighborhood.
MARK: Are you going to Clark Street Diner?
MARK: I love that place.
RICHARD: I’m not sure, he didn’t tell me what it is yet. But it’s in Brooklyn Heights.
MARK: Oh man.
RICHARD: You could scout us out if you want. [BOTH LAUGH]
[PHONE CALL ENDS, BEAT]
[THE SOUND OF A CAR DRIVING BY]
MARK: Where are you meeting him again? [AUDIO CONTINUES UNDER]
TOBIN: It’s the morning of Richard’s second date, and Mark has met him around the corner from the diner where it will all go down. It’s a crisp autumn morning, and, like a kid ready to make a good first impression on his first day of school, Richard has clearly given a lot of thought to what he’s wearing.
MARK: You look nice.
RICHARD: Thank you. I, uh, laid everything out last night [LAUGHS] before I went to bed, just like the first day of school.
TOBIN: Mark notices that Richard is nervous. He keeps rubbing his hands on his legs, like something big is about to happen. And he’s talking a mile-a-minute.
RICHARD: I’m also just anxious to see what he wears, too. I don’t remember what he wore the first time, but I’m anxious to see this time. [LAUGHS] So I will pay attention this time.
TOBIN: His energy has shifted. This date feels different than all the others. And as they’re talking about the outfit he picked out, and what he’ll say, and how he hopes it’ll go well, Richard makes a confession.
RICHARD: You know, there was one thing that I’m holding onto that I wasn’t going to mention. Last night, I had a Peter dream. [LAUGHS] And it was the weirdest thing in the world.
TOBIN: Richard says that the dream was a short — sort of a slice-of-life kind of dream. They were at their house upstate. A storm had knocked over an apple tree, so they had to go buy a new one to plant in the yard.
[GENTLE STRING MUSIC CAN BE HEARD UNDER]
RICHARD: And there wasn’t even that much talking. It was like heave-ho, putting the stuff in the back of the car, and saying, “How we gonna get this tree in?” and laughing about that. And then I woke up.
MARK: You seem … you’re affected by that dream. What — what — what — what about it?
RICHARD: Y’know, it’s almost like I am getting a little weepy about it. And it’s a good weepy. It’s like, if I were to believe in signs, I really like that Peter visited me.
TOBIN: It’s time for the date, so Mark gives Richard a hug goodbye.
[STRINGS PLAY LOUDER]
MARK: Good luck.
RICHARD: Thank you. [LAUGHS] Here we go! Have a great day!
TOBIN: Later, when I ask Richard about his Peter dream, he says he keeps going back to this one moment — to something Peter said to him in the dream that was kind of profound, after they had replaced the old apple tree.
[OVER THE STRINGS, BIRDS CHIRP. THE STRINGS ARE VIBRANT, SLOW, AND EMOTIVE]
RICHARD: And we got the tree out, and I had to help him lift in the dirt to fill in the hole. And the only other thing I remember about that dream was Peter saying, “Good. Now it's back to like-new, that ground. “And I thought of that later on. Like, ‘Now it's back to new, that ground.’” Like, Richard, the ground inside of you is back to new. You are ready to do this.
[MUSIC FADES OUT, THEN A LONG PAUSE]
[AN AUTOMATED VOICE SAYS, “RECORD YOUR MESSAGE AFTER THE TONE,” THEN A PHONE TONE PLAYS]
RICHARD: Hi, Mark. It’s Rich Cardillo calling ya. I had a … [AUDIO CONTINUES UNDER NARRATION]
TOBIN: A couple weeks later, Mark gets a message on his phone.
RICHARD: I just wanted to say thanks once again. And I’m with somebody —
JOEL: Uh, this is Joel. [BOTH LAUGH] Do I have to say anything else?
RICHARD: No, not anything else at all. This is Joel, my boyfriend. We’re using that term now.
JOEL: Yeah. This is Rich, my boyfriend.
RICHARD: [LAUGHS] And we’re both so thankful. And things have been going fantastically, and we just wanted to let you know! So, give a call if you need anything else. And, until we talk again, adios, ciao ciao, byeee!
[PHONE HANGS UP]
[A BEAT OF SILENCE, THEN BOUNCING, LIGHT MARIMBA MUSIC PLAYS]
JOEL’S NIECE: How lucky are all of us tonight? We have the great joy of celebrating the love and marriage of Joel and Richard.
TOBIN: If you were wondering if this story ends in a wedding, it does. This past January, at the Housing Works bookstore in Manhattan, Richard and Joel got married, surrounded by friends and family. Joel’s niece officiated.
[MUSIC SLOWLY FADES UNDER THEN OUT]
JOEL’S NIECE: They both live life the only way they know how, by tackling the motherfucking shit out of it. [CROWD LAUGHS AND CHEERS] This life is so precious, and to find someone to share it with that brings more joy and laughter and adventure and makes you feel full and satisfied inside — you hold onto that person and you never let them go. Joel and Rich have found that with each other.
JOEL: I promise to be your lover, companion, and friend as long as we live. And at our age, I guess that’s not much of a commitment. [LAUGHTER]
TOBIN: This is Joel kicking off the vows. And what really gets me about it is how open they are to talking about their previous partners — how much they embrace their past lives.
JOEL: You and Peter definitely shared a life of activism and hospitality, and I promise to honor that spirit of Peter. In sickness, in health; in triumph and failure, I will be there for you. I’ll be by your side, even with walkers [LAUGHTER] wherever the journey takes us. And I will love you until the day my heart goes still.
TOBIN: Then it was Richard’s turn.
RICHARD: I am in awe that your relationship with your late husband Herman Armhold endured in good times and hard times for 35 years. You were both aware of your responsibility toward each other. I promise to nurture and develop that sense of responsibility to you and to us. I have always given you my hand to hold. Today, I now give you my life to keep.
JOEL’S NIECE: Therefore, by the powers vested in me by the state of New York, I pronounce you married. You may seal your vow with a kiss.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
[WEDDING CLIP ENDS]
[ESOTERIC MUSIC PLAYS]
TOBIN: You mentioned before that you would talk to Peter. Do you still talk to Peter?
RICHARD: I do. I talked to him the — the morning of the wedding.
TOBIN: What did you say?
RICHARD: “It's happening. It's happening.” And it was a little bit of a thank you. “Thanks. You are now — the — the — our life now has a new chapter in it.” And I still say “our life” with Peter because, you know, that history is never gonna go away.
TOBIN: At the reception, Richard had one last surprise for Joel.
RICHARD: I sang him “I Got Lost in his Arms” from Annie, Get Your Gun. And serenaded him with him that night.
TOBIN: Wait! I hate to put you on the spot, but could we get just a little bit of a taste of you singing that song?
RICHARD: “I don't know how it happened,” it starts, [SINGING] “Don't ask me just how it happened. I wish I knew. I can't believe that it happened — and yet it's true.”
[PIANO FLOURISH PLAYS, THEN TRANSITIONS TO A CLIP FROM THE WEDDING, WHERE IT ACCOMPANIES RICHARD AS HE CONTINUES TO SING]
RICHARD: I got lost in his arms, and I had to stay. It was dark in his arms, and I lost my way. From the dark came a voice and it seemed to say, “There you go, there you go.” [RICHARD AND THE PIANO FADE UNDER AS TOBIN READS THE CREDITS]
TOBIN: Alright, that’s our show. Our staff includes Stephanie Foo, Lulu Miller, Suzie Lechtenberg, Zakiya Gibbons, B.A. Parker, and Jeremy Bloom.
The Other Men Need Help team includes Mark Pagán, Caitlin Mae Burke, Rebecca Seidel, and Ben Goldberg.
I’m Tobin Low.
“KATHY”: I’m Kathy Tu.
TOBIN: And Nancy is a production of WNYC Studios.
RICHARD: [WITH PIANO ACCOMPANIMENT, FROM THE WEDDING] … all around, but look what I’ve found.
[PIANO FINISHES AND CHEERS ABOUND]
EMCEE: Another huge round of applause for Rich and for Joel!
[A MOMENT FOR BREATH AS THE AUDIO FROM THE WEDDING FADES OUT]
TOBIN: If you or someone you know are having suicidal thoughts, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. We’ve also provided some links to support on our website.