TOBIN: Kathy.

KATHY: Tobin.

TOBIN: Is there any reason this episode can’t be a musical episode?

KATHY: There’s so many reasons this shouldn’t be a musical episode.

TOBIN: But it’s just amazing when someone's speaking and then [SINGING] suddenly they start singing their feelings in song.

KATHY: I’m very impressed by that.

TOBIN: Thank you, do you like my vibrato?

KATHY: Yeah, how did you do that?

TOBIN: Uh, I shake my whole body.

[BOTH LAUGH]

[THEME]

VOX: From WNYC Studios, this is Nancy!

VOX: With your hosts, Kathy Tu and Tobin Low.

[THEME MUSIC ENDS]

[WHISTLE]

TOBIN: So Kath.

KATHY: Tobin.

TOBIN: For the last few months we’ve been doing this “I’ve Been Meaning To Tell You” project…

KATHY: Yes, we asked: is there something you’ve been holding back from someone in your life…

TOBIN: Yeah, and you know on the show we talk to a lot of people who make themselves vulnerable and not just about their queerness but about how they choose to share all parts of their lives. And so we asked you all to share with us something that you feel like might be coming between you and someone important in your life, or something that would make you feel seen, you know just … something that you have left unsaid.

KATHY: Or maybe why you’ve left it unsaid.

TOBIN: so when we put out our call, we expected to get a variety of “something's”...but we didn't know we'd get SUCH a wide variety.

[MUSIC]

VOICEMAIL 1: To an old friend.

VOICEMAIL 2: To everyone who knows me.

VOICEMAIL 3: This is something I’ve been meaning to tell the world.

VOICEMAIL 4: I’m asexual. And I’m the only asexual person I know and interact with in my daily life.

VOICEMAIL 5: I Netflix-cheated on you. I feel terrible about it.

VOICEMAIL 6: I’m terrified of the love I will lose when I pick a side, for lack of a better phrase.

VOICEMAIL 2: I wanted you to know that I identify as bisexual. Five years ago you watched me marry a man, and that has made it seem impossible and a little pointless to tell you. But now I’m starting to think that it might be important just to be seen.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: Today, we’re going to hear from some of the people who took the next, brave step and talked to that one person.

WOLSEY: I just thought we'd get this done before I cooked you our anniversary dinner.

KATHY: This is a listener named Wolsey. He and his wife have been through a lot together. They’re both trans, and Wolsey transitioned a couple years ago. Now his wife is also transitioning.

WOLSEY: OK. So I just want to tell you something.

KATHY: So on a special night, this is what he told her:

WOLSEY: Since you're now going by Lucía as my wife. I wanted to say that I was your wife and you were my husband for 25 years. And you accepted me as your husband when I told you that I was secretly a man...

LUCIA: That wasn't secret.

WOLSEY: Well [LAUGHS].

LUCIA: That wasn't secret at all.

WOLSEY: It was a secret...

LUCIA: You were building our cars. There's nothing secret about that.

WOLSEY: But now I want to tell you I'm accepting you as my wife, now that you're coming out and telling the world you're actually secretly a woman.

LUCIA: I think it's not secret anymore either.

WOLSEY: And I'm kind of hoping we get another 25 years, except this time in the correct places. And I love you.

LUCIA: I love you.

WOLSEY: [LAUGHS] You're so pink.

LUCIA: Don't look at me. There's no looking at me.

WOLSEY: Your face is so pink. It's adorable. Happy Anniversary sweetie. I love you.

LUCIA: Happy Anniversary. I love you too.

[MUSIC]

TOBIN: Wolsey and Lucia are so sweet. I want to check in with them in 25 years to see how they are doing.

KATHY: I don’t know if we’ll still friends then Tobin..

TOBIN: Ok. Wow.

KATHY: I’m Just kidding! Okay back to our listeners. Tobin as you know...not all conversations can be so straightforward. A listener named Hannah wrote in with a deep, dark secret that shes been keeping from her friend, Alyx.

HANNAH: So Alyx has been my best friend for like since 6th grade, it’s been over 10 years now.

KATHY: Hannah and Alyx have grown up together. They’ve shared so many personal milestones together. They’ve geeked out to books and movies together.

HANNAH: I feel like everyone has like that franchise they love as a kid and like mine was Star Wars because I had this like infatuation with Carrie Fisher I couldn't explain at the time and hers has always been like Lord of the Rings.

KATHY: But all the while, Hannah has been carrying this secret.

TOBIN: Oh my god, What is it?

KATHY: Here’s the secret, Tobin.

HANNAH: I have never told her that I’ve never seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies.

KATHY: For a decade now, fully knowing Alyx loves Lord of the Rings, Hannah has been lying about seeing the movies.

TOBIN: Why???

HANNAH: I'm sure at the time it was like me trying to seem cool and just like playing it off as i had seen it before but its been kind of just going on for like too long now.

KATHY: To me it’s sort of like when someone calls you the wrong name and you don’t correct them immediately and they just keep doing it and then years later they’re still calling you Rachel.

TOBIN: Has somebody been calling you Rachel?

KATHY: It is just an example Tobin.

TOBIN: I don’t think that example holds up, but we’re going to go with it.

KATHY: Ok. But how about this...telling your friend that you have never taken the time to see their favorite movie trilogy is just HARD, especially when your friend lives and breathes Lord of the Rings.

HANNAH: Yeah so I've just been kind of like playing along with it this whole time and at this point I just like need to tell her.

KATHY: To the best of your knowledge, Hannah, tell me what do you know of Lord of the Rings.

HANNAH: So I know like main characters names so like you know like Frodo from lord of the rings we've got like Bilbo Baggins we've got Gollum and Smeagol who are like the same person.

KATHY: Yeah.

HANNAH: And the ring is important. [LAUGHS] But like, if you ask me anything more about it, I would not be able to tell you anything.

KATHY: Before we go in, how are you feeling, are you nervous?

HANNAH: I'm a little bit nervous but like at the same time I just been kind of been wanting to like get this off my chest for a while. Because she moved to Colorado like earlier this year so she is very physically farther away than she’s ever been before.

KATHY: Yeah.

HANNAH: And so I just feel like I got to be like more honest with her too at the same time.

KATHY: Yeah well okay. Shall we call Alyx?

HANNAH: Yes.

[PHONE RINGS]

ALYX: Hello?

KATHY: Hi, is this Alyx?

ALYX: Yeah, this is her.

KATHY: I'm Kathy and I co-host a podcast called Nancy and we've got your friend Hannah on the phone here. Say hi Hannah.

HANNAH: Hello.

ALYX: Uh huh. [LAUGHS]

KATHY: And we're calling you together because Hannah has something to tell you. Hannah, take it away.

HANNAH: Okay, so...I have a secret but I've been keeping it like from you for like almost our entire friendship now.

ALYX: Oh my god.

KATHY: [WHISPERS] That’s like ten years.

HANNAH: [LAUGHS]

KATHY: Sorry, I shouldn't interrupt. I'm sorry. Go ahead, continue.

HANNAH: Okay [LAUGHS] I have never actually seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies.

[BEAT]

ALYX: Are you kidding me? You let me go get a tattoo in Elvish and you've never seen a Lord of the Rings movie.

HANNAH: [LAUGHS]

ALYX: Couldn’t have the common courtesy to at least watch one.

KATHY: [LAUGHS] Alyx, lets process your feelings here. What are you feeling right now?

ALYX: Hurt. Friendship terminated.

KATHY: Wow! [LAUGHS]

HANNAH & ALYX: [LAUGH]

KATHY: Alyx, Are you glad that you know this now or would you have preferred to have never known.

ALYX: Preferred to have never known.

KATHY: Oh no! [LAUGHS]

HANNAH: [LAUGHS]

KATHY: But do you think in the end though, like it kind of brings you together?

[MUSIC]

HANNAH: I would hope so.

ALYX: Yeah I think so. I think it'd be really funny if she watches and hates it. So we'll see.

[ALL LAUGH]

[MUSIC OUT]

KATHY: So Tobin, as you know, one conversation I keep coming back to on this show is with my mom…

TOBIN: Uh-huh, an official third host of Nancy.

KATHY: And when I was going through all the notes from our listeners for this project, I noticed that a lot of people wrote in about conversations they also had with their family -- or their best friend.

TOBIN: Makes sense.

KATHY: But I’m also interested in other kinds of relationships where things have been left unsaid...

MICHAEL: My name is Michael Kerr. I'm a long term survivor living with HIV/AIDS.

KATHY: Michael lives in New York now, but he was living in Pittsburgh when he found out he was HIV positive. This was in the late 80s.

MICHAEL: And back then it was pretty scary because there weren't any medicines that directly combatted HIV itself, what we call the antiretrovirals. You know you you were in survival mode back then you had to find a doctor that was going to buy you time. I didn’t believe that.

[MUSIC]

MICHAEL: Pittsburgh is a small close knit community. You put your ear to the ground you hear, who are the doctors keeping us alive the longest. And it was Dr. Rabinowitz hands down.

[BEAT]

MICHAEL: Whenever he saw you in the patient exam room, he brings you back to his office and you just have a conversation. Just a conversation. You know there was handholding and there were hugs and there was always that smile and "be well my friend." I don't have any experience of any doctor in the Pittsburgh community that treated me with stigma or in any way like that. Now, that's because of Dr. Rabinowitz, because every referral I had from him, from dermatology to...I had a GI doctor once and I had a surgeon...every one of those doctors. And he protected us. He took care of me until I left Pittsburgh for New York City in 2004.

[MUSIC ENDS]

KATHY: Last month, a gunman opened fire in the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, killing 11 people.

MICHAEL: I heard about the shooting and then I think, "Oh none of my people were involved." And then I woke up on Sunday and my my boss, my first boss in my profession, she had texted me she said, "Is this our Jerry?" And I said, "I don't know. Let me look." And I looked online and I said, "Oh dear god, it is." And I picked up the phone and called her and we just started crying and then we were trying to piece together what we could find. And then I kept thinking, "What about his family?" Because I was just his patient and I knew the other patients that loved him too. And then I started reading things from his nephew and other stories from other patients. You know I thought, "Yep that's that's Dr. Rabinowitz." They described him beautifully.

[BEAT]

MICHAEL: Last year I thought I've got to tell him that I'm OK, so he knows. And I started to write a letter and you know how you write a letter and it's in your draft or in your notes? I looked for it last week and I couldn't find it but I was trying to tell him that, "Hey by the way you're right. I made it. I'm thriving in New York and this is what I'm doing." And I never got to tell him that. But I did...well I've been talking to my friends all this past week. And again, Pittsburgh is a small close knit community, they told me they said, "You don't have to worry Michael. He always asked about you." He would be seeing them and then he'd say, "How is Michael?" And then they would each smile to each other and they and my friend whoever it was at the time would say, "He's good."

[MUSIC]

MICHAEL: Thinking about his death and what it means to me and making something count for our loss and all the people that have lost people in that tragedy in Pittsburgh at the synagogue. For me I think it's almost like I shed that that last bit of veneer of stigma and being afraid. There's nothing, I mean all I could ever tell him is like thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You kept me together until the medicines were there. And now my life's together and I owe him that. I do. I really owe him that.

TOBIN: That’s Michael Kerr. We learned about his story in the New York Times.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: After the break, we’ve got more stories, more updates, also Dylan Marron of the podcast, Conversations with People Who Hate Me, AND his mom, they’re here to give you some advice.

KATHY: And some free therapy.

TOBIN: Nancy will be back in a minute.

[MIDROLL]

KATHY: And we’re back!

TOBIN: so Kath, remember when we had the first part of this series, there was this guy, Joe. He had something to tell his dad.

JOE: I know you must think I'm a confusing and maybe even a confused person. I'm about to be 50 and even though I came out to you as gay shortly after my divorce, later on I took it back and I tried to chalk it up to a midlife identity crisis. The thing is, it didn't go away. And I haven't brought it up because I didn't want to make either one of us uncomfortable. But I think it's time. I've met somebody pretty great who might become a part of my life even. And if...even if that doesn't work out, I'd just like to stop hiding who I am or limiting what I do or talk about because it's hard to be open with you.

TOBIN: So I followed up with Joe recently to see if he had had that conversation with his dad.

KATHY: And?

TOBIN: So Joe gave it a lot of thought, he ended up deciding that the conversation wouldn’t go anywhere, you know like his dad just wasn’t in a place to hear it yet.

KATHY: That’s a little bit of a  bummer. But I mean sometimes it’s best not to say anything and be realistic about the limits of a relationship and just be kind to yourself.

TOBIN: Totally. Totally However... this other thing happened, which was kind of great.

KATHY: Ok…

TOBIN: Joe’s boyfriend, PD, heard the episode and more importantly heard Joe say he really liked him. Here’s PD...

PD: Joe and I had just had a conversation where I thought he was giving me the brush off. He was saying that we were kind of going too fast and he wanted to go slow and I thought it was kind of his way of saying that it really wasn't working for him. Then he like just kind of texted me your podcast without any comment. And I was just floored, that you know that he cared about me that much and I was just a puddle on the floor.

TOBIN: PD would it be OK if I had shared like just a couple lines of what you wrote? It's OK if you say no.

PD: Yeah? I honestly don't remember exactly. Like I think I was through like tears streaming down my cheeks when I wrote that.

JOE: He looks terrified. [LAUGHS]

TOBIN: No it's just like...there's like the sweetest part is just that's you say Joe is special and different than anyone you've met before. And then you ended with for what it's worth I'm head over heels for him, which I thought was very nice.

JOE: Aww, that is very sweet.

PD: Well, that is true.

JOE: That is very sweet. I adore PD and I'm...I told him last night I think I owe him a little bit of an apology because I have trouble communicating that sometimes, you know, through all the trying to kind of keep my foot on the gas and the brake at the same time, because of just all of this, all of this bundle of crap that I haven't fully dealt with.

PD: I kind of thought you know moving down here I'm a middle aged man and you know I'm never going to be in a relationship again. Nobody...any middle aged gay man who's single is probably single for a reason because it's probably not worth being in a relationship with. So I'm going to be here with my family and I'll kind of die an old maid in southeast Texas and that'll be it. And so this is really, it was just amazing meeting, meeting Joe and he's just such a kind, kind person and so thoughtful. You know you don't meet a lot of people like that.

JOE: That's very sweet. Thank you, baby.

PD: it's true.

[MUSIC]

TOBIN: So...after hearing all of these folks sharing the things they’ve been meaning to say and having these conversations, we’re hoping that maybe—maybe—you’re inspired to do it too. And we thought it might be helpful to have some folks on who can help with that.

DYLAN: My name is Dylan Marron and I am sitting across from a person who I refer to as Shona or Schonacoaster Jones. And I met her when I grew inside of her. So that is our relationship with each other. Shona...

GLENN: Well I happen to be your mom.

KATHY: So Dylan is a comedian...and he hosts the podcast Conversations With People Who Hate Me, where he calls up people who have trolled him online and tries to talk to them to find common ground. So we thought he would be the perfect person to talk to because he’s used to having tough conversations. And his mom, Glenn Marron, is a psychologist in New York. Which like, nuff said.

TOBIN: We asked them to come in to give us on some advice about having difficult conversations, because like you said, it’s hard to do, it’s not always clear if it’s the right thing to do…also.. we are no experts.

KATHY: Not at all. So I started off by asking Dylan and Glenn about the best way for folks to have a conversation about their identity, whether it’s coming out or telling them you’re starting on testosterone, or something else along those lines. What’s the best way to prep for a conversation like that?

DYLAN: You got to do it only when you feel safe to do it, right? Like no one should be rushing you to have that conversation. That's something that you need to do on your own time in your own way when it feels safe. But I think if you're getting to the point where you feel compelled to have this conversation with someone, and I so wish it weren't this way, but I think it's acknowledging that sometimes it's gonna be a longer road for the other person to understand. But that doesn't negate your identity. You know that doesn't take away from who you are and the truth of who you are. It it is just the fact that people don't people don't always you know get it, capital "I", immediately when you come out when you speak a truth about yourself.

GLENN: Well and that's super important and so many people don't know so even you saying that actually gives them permission to recognize that it's a process and it can be really long. It can be years. But recognizing that I don't have to personalize that, that if my parent has this blind spot that's not a reflection of my inadequacy or something. But that's a really hard thing for people to recognize and to understand about themselves.

KATHY: Sometimes I feel like I have a hard time having a difficult conversation with somebody because I'm already anticipating what their negative reaction is gonna be.

GLENN: Shadowboxing.

TOBIN: What's shadowboxing?

KATHY: What?

GLENN: Well shadowboxing is exactly what you just described. It's that we we anticipate that a person is going to feel or believe or think this or that. And we immediately, we place it on them, basically project onto the other person that that's what that person is going to feel. It's not true necessarily but we assume it.

KATHY: How do you not shadowbox?

GLENN: [LAUGHS] It's the therapy.

DYLAN: [LAUGHS] You gotta pay for that. That doesn't come free!

GLENN: well you have to see your own blind spots and you have to recognize OK I get super anxious. You just have to start recognizing OK what gets me afraid. And when I get anxious can I do something else. And if I start getting really anxious, well I'm listening and I start shadowboxing again, you can say to me stop you know or wait cool down or just hear me out for a minute or something like that.

TOBIN: Well like one thing I'm hearing both of you sort of touch on is, well you mentioned like make sure it's a safe thing for you to share if there's something that you want to share. But there's also a quality of you know if you're gonna tell somebody something difficult, making sure that they're open to receiving it and also that you're in the right motivation to share it. That you're coming from the right place.

GLENN: That's right.

DYLAN: Oh completely.

TOBIN: So like what are what are the questions, if you have something that you have been meaning to share with somebody, what are the questions that you should ask yourself about am I in the right place? And what are the questions you should ask yourself about the other person to sort of suss out are they in the right place to receive that?

DYLAN: So the question that I think is important to ask is does this person deserve my energy? Because it takes a significant amount of energy to engage in conversation with someone and to ask them questions to answer their questions. And if you think about it in terms of coming out it's like you should only be coming out to people who you think deserve your energy. You know of the big emotional lift of coming out to that person.

GLENN: Well and you have to set boundaries like when the person has the ability to let's say start therapy or something like that before they do it, you know, you can you can help a person say to their parent, "You know I love you and you you can have your own thoughts about it but I don't see it that way. And I'm hoping over time that we'll get into various conversations about this."

KATHY: Well and then once you sort of launched yourself into this conversation, how do you make it through it without you know somebody shutting down, somebody ending it, somebody physically leaving the conversation? At least for me personally I tend to I will shut down if I hear a lot of things that I either feel offended by, especially if the reaction isn't what I would like it to be.

DYLAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KATHY: So how do you get yourself through it?

GLENN: Being able to differentiate between emotionality and reactivity...it's a big distinction. Because yeah we're going to have emotions about any important issue, but if we can we can certainly be even highly emotional about it, but can you respond or do you react? And if you respond, you get to say in that situation, "I'm upset," you know, " I'm listening to you. And I feel rejected and I'm feeling that maybe there's something about me that you think is kind of inadequate and it hurts me." Whereas the reactive part might be, "To hell with you," you know, or you know, "I'm I'm shutting down because that's it. And you don't even give a shit about me," and that's reactive. A lot of times you really do have to account for, "okay when we're having a difficult time and we're just repeating ourselves and we're just getting past and etc over and over. Let's take a time out." The two important things you do in a time out is you leave it with a leap of faith that hey we're going to talk again. We'll talk tomorrow or something like that. And I know I'm really angry right now but I'll get over it. I'll cool down and then we'll reengage you know or something like that. But yes everybody is super emotional in anything that's important between two people or more.

TOBIN: Well now I feel like I'm just asking for free therapy, but...

DYLAN: Like I said, you gotta pay babe!

TOBIN: Well I feel like, so I, like, when I have uncomfortable conversations with people or when I'm trying to admit something or whatever, there's also a huge part of me that wants to push towards a resolution at the end of the conversation, and sort of like put a bow on it and say like yeah cool we got to this new realization together. And sometimes that happens, but then I think sometimes you're like tricking yourself into believing that happened.

GLENN: For sure.

TOBIN: So for someone going into these conversations, what is the goal coming out on the other side like what's a good holistic goal to try and walk away with?

GLENN: That's a good question, yeah.

DYLAN: I always want to like be super transparent that not every difficult conversation can have a ribbon on it. And I think that's like the ethical thing to do.

GLENN: But it is sometimes to be able to say I don't know if we'll be able to get any place with this. We'll try.

DYLAN: Sometimes you just have to limit it through time and then we may come out agreeing with each other, we may come out with an apology, we may come out seeing each other's side, we may come out of this friends. But it's just about kind of staying engaged in the conversation. That is the only marker of success. Because I think staying in a conversation is actually an act of love.

[MUSIC]

KATHY: We'd like to make an appointment with you...

DYLAN: Yes!

KATHY: For the two of us.

DYLAN: Yes!

TOBIN: Should I pull up the schedule right now?

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

TOBIN: That was Dylan Marron of the podcast, Conversations with People Who Hate Me, and his mom, psychologist Glenn Marron.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: Kath, there’s one last thing I want to do before we go.

KATHY: Okay.

TOBIN: It’s an update…an update to the story that sort of kicked this whole thing off.

TOBIN: Can I ask you a personal question? Which is a thing I’ve been thinking about lately?

JASON: No, I mean when have you asked me a personal question? You only ask me personal questions.

KATHY: Jason!

TOBIN: Yes, it’s Jason Kim. So, listeners, if you haven’t heard his story...stop right now and go back to the episode titled “Perfect Son”...it’s about the years long struggle between Jason and his father… Jason wanted to give his father a life saving kidney transplant...and his father kept saying “No, I don’t want it.” Finally, Jason really confronted his dad about why he kept refusing...and it turned into this really beautiful conversation about all the things that had been unsaid between them over the years.

KATHY: I personally found it so interesting how Jason went into the conversation thinking “finally I’ll get my dad to understand me.” And that happened.  But what also happened was his dad opened up in a way that allowed Jason to really understand him back.

TOBIN: Yeah, I know, it was like the ol’ switcharoo. And so many people wrote in asking how Jason and his dad were doing now...especially since his dad received a kidney transplant…

KATHY: So…

TOBIN: So..the update, is that Jason’s dad is doing great...But the path to getting there was...pretty dramatic.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: Can you take me back a little bit to his moment when you get the call that there was a donor and that your dad could receive the kidney?

JASON: It was a very intense week, actually. It happened the day I got back to Los Angeles from my grandmother’s funeral. My grandmother and I were super close. She was 102 when she passed. And the funeral was very painful.

TOBIN: And when Jason got the call about the kidney donor, that process started moving super quickly..  So quickly that Jason wasn’t be able to get on a plane to go to St. Louis in time to see his dad go into surgery.  And that was sort of doubly complicated because his parents don’t speak much English, so Jason often translates for them. But his mom told him to just to stay where he was…And that when there was news, the doctor would call him and Jason could translate the news into Korean for his mom.

JASON: So I waited for hours and hours and hours and I’m just watching the clock. And finally I think after 4-6 hours later, the surgeon called me and said it went great. We couldn't be happier, will you please tell your mom? And he handed his cell phone over to my mom and I told her in korean. And my mom who has been, you know, wonder woman, for the past week. Burying her mother, and then days later going into surgery without me there. My poor mom burst into tears and she said...I really feel like your grandmother did this. And we both sat on the phone and cried.

[MUSIC]

JASON: And the surgeon was like, can I have my phone back...?

TOBIN: Jason’s family still doesn’t know anything about the donor. Legally, the donor has to remain anonymous. But...

JASON: A year later, you get to write a letter to the family.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: What do you think you would write in that letter, do you have ideas?

JASON: I‘ve thought about it a lot. And, I...every time I think of a way to say thank you, it doesn’t feel like it’s enough.

TOBIN: I guess I’m curious... has your dad heard the episode?

JASON: He has.

TOBIN: What did he think?

JASON: I asked him on the way home from the airport, actually. I picked him up and I said have you listened to the story? And he said yes. And then my mom chimed in: He cried. She was so happy about it.

TOBIN: Did he really?

JASON: Yeah. And I looked at him and I go, did you cry? And he kind of nodded.

TOBIN: That’s so sweet.

JASON: It was very sweet. It was very sweet. And I said did you understand anything? And he said I understood the korean.

TOBIN: What is your relationship with your dad like now? How has it changed?

JASON: It feels so much more robust. It feels so full. We’re also having all these conversations about politics and movies...everything but the weather.

TOBIN: You also have recent news. You’re playing with your left hand. Do you want to share what that recent news is?

JASON: I got engaged.

TOBIN: How does your dad feel about it?

JASON: He’s thrilled. He’s thrilled. He's really thrilled. And he loves my partner.

TOBIN: So he’s excited about the wedding and all that?

JASON: Yeah, and he gets to come. Isn’t that? Wow, I could just burst into tears thinking about that now. Yeah.

[MUSIC OUT]

[CREDITS MUSIC STARTS]

TOBIN: Alright that’s our show.

KATHY: Credits!

TOBIN: Our producer...

KATHY: Matt Collette!

TOBIN: Sound designer...

KATHY: Jeremy Bloom!

TOBIN: Production fellow...

KATHY: Temi Fagbenle!

TOBIN: Editor...

KATHY: Jenny Lawton!

TOBIN: Executive producer...

KATHY: Paula Szuchman!

TOBIN: I’m Tobin Low.

KATHY: I’m Kathy Tu.

TOBIN: And Nancy is a production of WNYC Studios.

[CREDITS MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: Matt, did you hear that I said “producer” sadly?

KATHY: [LAUGHS] Superstar producer Matthew Collette.

MATT: Hello.

KATHY: You're leaving us.

MATT: I know it's very sad.

KATHY: You’re moving to DC to start a great new job in news, because we always knew that is what your heart loves. My question for you is… is there anything you’ve been meaning to tell us before you leave? Something you’ve been meaning to tell Tobin, perhaps?

MATT: Okay So Tobin, I've been meaning to tell you that when we were in Boston ahead of the live show and we all did the run through in your hotel room.

TOBIN: Yep.

MATT: So I got up to my hotel room and I tried the keys and I realized they didn't work. And then I was like "Oh I definitely took Tobin's hotel keys.".

TOBIN: Wait.

MATT: And then though I started to bring them back to you. But I was running late so I threw them in the garbage.

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

MATT: It was one of those things where it felt like oh no I'm way over my head. What am I going to do. What am I going to do. I'm going to throw these keys in the trash can by the elevator.

TOBIN: So...

MATT: And then decided to lie to you.

TOBIN: Here's the thing about this. This would be totally fine and forgivable had not later that day I'd seen you guys and been running late because I couldn't find my hotel keys, and you guys gave me such shit. [LAUGHS] Like, irresponsible Tobin.

KATHY: To be fair I did not know this.

MATT: Kathy did not know this at the time.

KATHY: So those words were genuine.

TOBIN: [LAUGHS] Oh my god that's so funny.

KATHY: The listeners will miss you, Matt.

TOBIN: I think that if someone lists the things that they love about Nancy, all of them are things that Matt Collette helped us figure out. You know what I mean like the silliness, the tone, like how far we could go with stories, like how outside of this like what are you used to hearing as an LGBT story.

KATHY: Hmhmm.

TOBIN: Like all of that has been a Matthew Colletter contribution. So I'm just like, I think about how grateful I am that we just happened to get you. That's...that is the luckiest thing.

MATT: I was just the person available.

TOBIN: [LAUGHS]

KATHY: Well speaking for all of the listeners out there, we're going to miss you.

TOBIN: We're gonna miss you. We love you Matt.

MATT: Thank you guys. I'm gonna miss you too.

 

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