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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer, on WNYC. We'll end today with a call in on the most interesting conversation you've had recently, across political lines. Who has one to describe? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We do this call in from time to time. We're doing it today. It is on the most interesting conversation you've had recently, across political lines. Who has one to describe? 212-433-WNYC.

I'm particularly interested in conversations that you came away from thinking that they were respectful and a rich exchange of ideas, even if you disagreed. I know that's hard these days. Has anyone had a conversation like that recently? A call in on the most interesting conversation you've had recently, across political lines? Who has one to describe? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Now, it can be a conversation that did not end well. It can be a conversation like we seem to hear a lot about these days, and a lot of these days where you and your siblings, you and your parents, you and your former best friend just can't talk to each other anymore. You can tell that story, how you came to that point, and what was notable about where you disagreed or how you disagreed.

We're also very interested in conversations that you came away thinking were respectful and a rich exchange of ideas, even if you disagreed. Has anyone had a conversation like that recently? It's a call-in on the most interesting conversation you've had recently across political lines. Who has one to describe? 212-433-WNYC. On the positive communication side, I'm curious how any of you engage in deep listening to people you disagree with. What questions do you ask to draw them out before you try to convince them of anything?

Maybe you ask, "What has your life experience been that has contributed to your opinion about this? How do you think people who disagree with you come to their opinions, and why you disagree? Do you have any ambivalence about the position that you're taking?" I'll reveal some of mine in some cases where there is ambivalence, in some cases, there isn't, but to try to get off the polarizing binary. What kinds of conversations have you had that might have included things like that?

Here's an example of a moment on the show last week. This is a moment between me and a caller who was supporting Donald Trump against the election fraud indictment. In the course of it, the caller said she liked Trump compared to Biden, partly because Biden is an aging aristocrat. If you remember that moment, I couldn't believe the comparison she was making there, given who the two of them are, and have been. I said this, "Biden, with his background, is an aristocrat more than Trump, with his background?"

Caller: Trump, he comes up from hard work in real estate. He's not an aristocrat, by any means.

Brian Lehrer: [crosstalk] From inheritance though, right?

Caller: Yes, that's what I mean. Biden has seven homes. It's just ridiculous, what he has.

Brian Lehrer: As we are back live, it's still baffling to me that someone could know Trump's inheritances, how his father paid for him to get started and even to continue in business, versus Biden's upbringing. If you want to count how many homes someone owns, how about, in Trump's case, how many estates? That caller is representative, I think, of how many Trump supporters view him versus Biden in class terms, despite the economic and biographical reality.

That's an example of an exchange I found, if not comprehensible to many listeners, really interesting, which is what we're inviting you to share, your most interesting recent conversations across political lines. It can have gone well, or not. Just one more time, I would love to hear about a good question that either you or the other person asked, because I think one of the keys to good political conversations is to ask the other person questions about how they came to their opinions, why they believe them.

Not just talk about your differences, but to really listen, with what I call curious questions, or curiosity questions. Not just challenging, or got you questions. Have any examples of those? We'd love to hear how you or the other person ask the good information-producing question in the course of a political exchange with somebody you disagree with, and really listen to each other. 212-433-WNYC, for the most interesting conversation you've had across political lines recently. 212-433-9692. We'll take your calls right after this.

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Brian Lehrer, on WNYC, as we take your calls with recent conversations across political lines that were interesting. Ed, in Queens, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling in, Ed. Hi.

Ed: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I actually reconnected with a friend from high school, so maybe that goes back almost 50 years ago. He was an outlier in school. We went to the same Catholic high school. I was probably a much more liberal person. He was one of the very few people who supported the Vietnam War, and went to VMI. We got along great. He's a really fun and interesting guy.

Somehow, maybe through LinkedIn suggesting we connect, we reconnected about a year and a half ago. He has maybe moved even further to the right. I don't think that I've moved that far to the left, but we have a lot of really interesting conversations, sometimes four or five times a day, back and forth, through email, with him arguing certain points with me and providing me with articles and links in media that I would never have contact with, Gateway Pundit, Slay, Quizlet, Breitbart.

I've actually found it rather stimulating and enjoyable. Sometimes it gets a little edgy, a little heated, but most of the time, it's good fun, respectful, and interesting. He had argued to me from early on that the Biden laptop was a real story. If you recall back, how many people in the intelligence community had written, had signed onto that letter, saying that it was Russian disinformation?

Brian Lehrer: Ed, thank you very much. Appreciate that. Carol, in Western Connecticut, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carol.

Carol: Hi. My story may be a little bit different, but I've had a house guest visiting as a young man in his 20s. It's pretty well known that my husband is a Republican, I'm a Democrat. We've been that way. We've been married for 40 years. Anyway, I was saying something about being-- Even though I'm a liberal Democrat, I consider myself very patriotic, and a real patriot. Our house guest was really surprised by that.

I was really surprised at how surprised he was, because I never really thought of that, that people might think someone who is a liberal democrat is not a patriot, is not patriotic, and doesn't love their country.

Brian Lehrer: Did you get into definition of patriot?

Carol: I let it slide, because it was someone I was just getting to know, it wasn't someone I knew well, so I just felt like I didn't really want to push any further. He's from a more conservative part of the country, so I don't know if that's part of it. Anyway, [unintelligible 00:08:39]--

Brian Lehrer: [crosstalk] Do you have any example of a question that you asked him, or he asked you?

Carol: Not really. I think it was just he was surprised, and questioned me a little bit when I said that, that I consider myself patriotic.

Brian Lehrer: Carol, thank you very much. Thank you. Justina, in Queens. You're on WNYC. Hi, Justina.

Justina: Hey, Brian. I wasn't sure you were going to take my call, because it's a funny story, and I'm really tired of all those serious political discussions.

Brian Lehrer: We do funny.

Justina: It was July the 5th. Fairly early in the morning, I bumped into my neighbor and he says, "Oh, my gosh, do you see this fog?" I'm like, "Yes, the fireworks, they really went late into the night last night." "No, no, no, it's the government." I'm like, "What are you talking about?" He says, "Well, of course, don't you watch Netflix? There's this show, it's called The Designated Survivor. You have to watch it. It will tell you everything about what they don't tell us." I said, "I have to go. I have a train to catch." [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: A conspiracy theorist, apparently, who thinks the government is creating fog for nefarious purposes, and you chose not to engage. You chose to disengage.

Justina: No. Yes. Honestly, I just don't see a point discussing with people like that. I just don't believe there is a way to sway them.

Brian Lehrer: Justina, thank you very much. Yes, and that's the line, isn't it? It's like-- How to know when to engage, or when it's just pointless? This even comes up in the recent media coverage of the [unintelligible 00:10:39] by Joe Rogan, for Peter Hotez, the vaccine scientist, to debate RFK Jr., and Hotez's position is-- There's no point in debating him, because he's just going to come with a flurry of disinformation points, one after another, after another, after another, after another.

There's no clarification possible in an exchange like that. It sounds like that was Justina's take as well, and it's one of the challenges, for those of us who want to engage across political lines, whatever your political lines are, at what point is there no point? Katherine, in North Bergen, you're on WNYC. Hi, Katherine.

Katherine: Hello, a pleasure to be with you. Our scene was, we have six brothers and sisters, three extremely liberal, and three extremely conservative. After a lot of tears, problems, and horrible arguments, we all decided the first focus had to be manners. Nobody was going to interrupt. I've one sister who's a therapist, she's all about active listening, so after you listen to somebody, it's important to ask them a question. We're practicing all the techniques. We're all here and everywhere. We walk away from the table.

I look at my sister, Donna, and I say, "Donna, didn't we do great? Nobody raised their voice. Nobody was upset. Wasn't that fabulous?" We thought we had made a really big breakthrough. Then, that evening, we got a text from my very conservative brother that he was heartbroken and devastated. He called me, particularly, a hater. I rescue kittens for a living. I thought, "They're right, you can't talk about politics, sex, or religion. That's just where it's at." Anyway, that's what happened. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: I can't imagine your Thanksgivings. Unfortunate that it ended that way, but thank you for that story. Sharon, in Benton Township, Pennsylvania. You're on WNYC. Hi, Sharon.

Sharon: Good morning. Two things. One is, I have two-- The closest conversations, or conversations of this nature, that I have with two friends, and they are enlightening conversations. However, in the beginning, I've had to tread lightly, because I have one that just talked to me about this. During one of the conversations, one of my friends, who has other political beliefs, said, "Don't let my side take the flag away from your side."

It was just one of those ways that we connected. The other thing, if I'm correct, I heard you say, "What would I say to convince somebody?" I don't think that's my job. My job is to listen, as I appreciate when they listen to me. I would not be open to these conversations, or they would be more difficult to me, if I felt that somebody was trying to convince me, and I don't think it's my job to convince them.

Brian Lehrer: I hear you. Just to clarify, I was trying to emphasize, what questions do you ask to engage in real listening before you try to convince someone? You're saying, don't even take that next step, just listen to their differences.

Sharon: I don't think so, just listen-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: In the context of that, can you state your differences, and that's different than trying to convince?

Sharon: I think so, yes, because we're just listening to each other, and we're having conversations that-- If we could get to the point of saying, "Oh, I understand," which we haven't gotten to yet, but there isn't that bite in the conversations, and there isn't-- At the beginning, I think my other two friends were really reluctant, because they thought I was just going to be all over them. I just don't think that's my job, and I don't think it's their job.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Sharon. Thank you very much. I'm going to try to sneak one more in here, but I don't know if we can. Jane, in Port Washington, I don't know if we can do you justice. We've got 20 seconds. Do you want to do a quickie?

Jane: Okay. Well, I'll just tell the end of the story. My hairdresser always gives me a hard time about being a Democrat. He and his other lady, who was getting her hair done, I said to them, "Have you heard the Raffensperger call at all?" Both said, "No, we haven't heard that. We haven't." I offered to play it, this little piece on my phone, and both of them got alarmed and said, "No, no, don't share it." It was just totally wild.

Brian Lehrer: They didn't want to hear it. All right. Interesting. We may be hearing a lot more about the Raffensperger call with news out of Georgia tomorrow, but thanks, listeners, for your calls about your interesting conversations across political lines.

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