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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC here on March 30th, almost the end of Women's History Month. We're going to take a moment to open up the phones for you to talk about your favorite female firsts 646-435-7280. We have the great historian guest, Alexis Coe who's going to ride along, but we see similar stories of extraordinary women who've changed the course of history every year. We can name some of the women's suffrage activists.

We can name the first us woman in space. We can name the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic. You can, can't you? But women actually make history every day. Most of those stories are rarely told even during this month. Now, we will open up the phones to anyone who wants to shout out your favorite female first. 646-435-7280. Maybe you know about Sally Ride, the first us woman in space, but you don't know about Mae Jemison the first Black woman in space.

We all know about the late Supreme court justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the first Jewish woman on the Supreme court, but do you happen to know Genevieve Cline, the first female judge to ever sit on a federal court. Who are your favorite female firsts from history or from today? Give us a call, 646-435-7280. We want to hear those names. We want to hear those stories. We ant other people to hear those names and hear those stories that you know if they're not the big 5 or 10 or 20 that we always hear about, 646-435-7280.

Joining me now with some of her own and to take some of your calls is Alexis Coe historian and author of several books, including one now out in paperback You Never Forget Your First a biography of, okay, it's a man, George Washington. Hi, Alexis. Welcome back to WNYC. Do we have Alexis? Alexis can you--

Alexis Coe: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: There we go. Now we can hear you, unmute yourself. I see that during the pandemic, you've been writing an [unintelligible 00:02:25] biography of Jane Grant. Who is known if she's known at all as the first "Girl reporter at the New York Times," she was also the co-founder of the New Yorker. As you write, she's been cut out of this story. Tell us about Jane Grant.

Alexis Coe: Jane Grant was a woman I discovered at the beginning of the pandemic and it was right after the hard cover of You Never Forget Your First came out and I was looking for a new topic. I looked back at the list that I had compiled in graduate school of couples who had done incredible things, but the man was recognized and the woman's contributions were not, or she was name-checked, which is the best case scenario for Jane Grant.

Once in a while on the New Yorker's website or in print, she is named as the co-founder but other than that, she completely disappears from the story. The overall consensus there seems to be that she was no longer relevant after their divorce, which happened just a few years after the New Yorker was founded. In fact, she worked there past Harold Ross's death, the person who, if you know who founded the New Yorker, you think of as the founder. She saved the New Yorker by doubling circulation during World War II.

She was constantly on the lookout for new ways to keep it growing and sustainable and yet we just don't see her there. We see her completely erased. We also see so many of her contributions given to Harold Ross. For example Janet Flanner who was the woman who wrote letters from Paris for the New Yorker was Jane Grant's friend. Yet in what we know is a very influential biography by a historian named Yagoda, he credits Ross with hiring Janet Flanner and then that is what Wikipedia credits and then that's how it happened. A woman is just denied because one person doesn't really care that much.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call. Alex in Jersey city you're on WNYC who's your female first.

Alex: Thanks for taking my call. My females first is Nawal El Saadawi, I don't know if this is only recently made the news, but she passed away last week and she is really the grandmother of feminism in the Arab world. She was from Egypt and she railed against the mistreatment of women by religion in Egypt and other societies and also patriarchical institutions in North Africa and more broadly in the Islamic world.

She just would not be silenced whether it was Anwar Sadat or whether it was Hosni Mubarak or the Muslim brotherhood later. She should be a shining example to everyone under even like the most difficult conditions for women that she was such inspiring voice for women's rights. It's someone that I really deeply admire. I think we in the West should pay more attention to what she said.

Brian Lehrer: Alex, thank you so much for, and I don't know her, sounds like an important female first, not well known in this country. Melissa, in Brooklyn you're on WNYC. Hi Melissa. Who's your female first.

Melissa: Hi, I'm calling to hopefully introduce people to Grandma Gatewood. She is the first woman to have through hiked the entire Appalachian trail from Georgia to Maine in 1955 and she was 67-years-old when she did that.

Brian Lehrer: Nice. Thank you very much. Let's go right on to Jim in Fort Lee, you're on WNYC who's got another outdoors woman. Jim, hi.

Jim: Hi. I want to I mentioned Lynn Hill who have freed the Nose, the biggest feature on El Capitan without using direct aid, that means no pulling on slings but using the actual rocket itself. That was the first, that was a big shot for women climbing. I'm a climber myself and I'm continually impressed by her achievements.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much, Jim. Here's Josephine in the Bronx. Josephine you're on WNYC. Who's your female first?

Josephine: My female first is Misty Copeland, because a long time ago I used to have a ballerina costume and I really, really like ballerinas and also I've watched Nutcracker movie.

Brian Lehrer: Misty Copeland. You said you had this ballerina costume a long time ago? How long ago was it do you think?

Josephine: I think I were probably two or three?

Brian Lehrer: You were probably two or three. How old are you now?

Josephine: Eight.

Brian Lehrer: Josephine, thanks for calling in. You've made your radio debut.

Josephine: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Good luck out there in the harsh world at third grade or whatever and eight-year-old is in, I think it's third grade. Alexis, nice first set of calls, huh?

Alexis Coe: Absolutely. I have only heard of one of those women, Grandma Gatewood and all I can tell you is I've seen a photo and the exact summary that we just got. There is so many unsung heroes there that could also broaden our-- As an American historian you know this is tough for me to say, but it could broaden our understanding of the world. If we learned more about these women. We can hear about Amelia Earhart every year, I love her, but she's quite famous and there's absolutely nothing new to say about her.

Brian Lehrer: Which is the point of this segment. Let me tease out another one of yours. One of your earlier books, Alice + Frieda Forever: A Murder in Memphis. I see it's being turned into a film by Jennifer Kent, who directed The Babadook, congratulations.

Alexis Coe: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Actually that story about two young women in love is the first time there was as I understand it, an insanity trial for same sex love in this country. Can you talk about that history and why you think it's important enough to have written up a novel that fictionalizes it?

Alexis Coe: Not all of women's history is celebratory and it's nonfiction, I just told it as a narrative story and I'm so excited for it.

Brian Lehrer: It's non-fiction, sorry I apologize.

Alexis Coe: No, it's fine. It is being fictionalized, but not by very much for the screen, which makes me very happy. This is a story we don't tell during Women's History Month because it's not celebratory, it's nuanced and there's a lot of complexity involved in it. Alice Mitchell murdered her girlfriend. They were both teenagers in 1890s, Memphis in broad daylight with tons of witnesses, she admitted to the murder. Yet Alice was not tried for murder she was tried for insanity because people couldn't accept that woman could love another woman, it seemed insane. When I say people, I mean her father, who was a well to do man in Memphis and he came up with a defense and found people who would run with it. That was the unanimous decision when she was tried by a jury of, not her peers, but men.

Brian Lehrer: Let's see what Kimberley in Brooklyn has to say and her female first. Hi, Kimberly you are WNYC.

Kimberley: Hi, how are you?

Brian Lehrer: Good. Thank you. Who's your female first?

Kimberley: My female first is Henrietta Lacks. She is a 31-year-old mother whose cells were taken from John Hopkins and used to create-- Hi, how are you?

Brian Lehrer: Did we lose you? Yes. Her cells were the first to create--

Kimberley: Her cells were the first immortal cells. Those are mortal cells are used at every lab everywhere in this world. It would wrap around the earth three times. What's happening is that those cells were used to create vaccines, LivF, all kinds of medicines, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, AIDS medication. Henrietta Lacks is somebody that everybody should know because oftentimes our families are also using medications that have been used from her cells for research.

Every lab in the world has her cells. The unfortunate fact is that her family still lives in poverty. She was a 31-year-old mother that died. She was 31-years-old mother of five, died and her cells are used all around the world to create medicines so that we live a better life. I think that she absolutely should be recognized. Black woman out of Roanoke, Virginia.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for the shout out to Henrietta Lacks. That was great. Interesting, a few people are calling up with medical ones. Let's stay in this ballpark, Kershell, in Fort Lee, you are on WNYC, hi, Kershell.

Kershell: Hey, hi, Brian. Thank you very much for taking my call. The female I want us to recognize is Elizabeth Blackwell. Today is also a national doctor's day and Elizabeth Blackwell was the first female to receive a medical degree in the United States. She graduated from SUNY Upstate in Syracuse. I don't know if a lot of people know about this, but there's also an award named after her, the Blackwell Award, which is given to a female position who has had a significant contribution to the field of medicine.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Elizabeth Blackwell. Jaycee has one that's a relative as well as a female first. Is that right Jaycee? Hi.

Jaycee: Hi. The female first that I'd to talk about is actually my grandmother, Doutora Garcia Devalero who was the first female anesthesiologist of all of Venezuela. She also happens to be the inspiration of why I decided to study medicine and why I became a doctor myself. It was very impressive hearing her stories of growing up and studying in a very male dominated profession and having to fight through that. Also bringing in new technologies like the first intubations that were specifically done for children at the time, because this was a while back. She went to conferences all over the world and brought things back to Venezuela.

Brian Lehrer: Awesome, say her name again.

Jaycee: Doutora Evita Garcia Devalero.

Brian Lehrer: Jaycee, thank you so much. Well, another great set, Alexis and I love the fact that we're hearing about people who were first in other countries who were so important to those countries from the descriptions we're hearing. Jaycee is there with his grandmother from Venezuela and the caller earlier, about the feminist activist from Egypt and these last three all in the area of medicine, amazing.

Alexis Coe: Absolutely. It invites another name to be thrown in here, which is Mary Walker. She was a woman who was a doctor, but she wasn't allowed to go under that title during the Civil War. We can thank her for stopping many limbs from being amputated. Doctors were experimenting on soldiers because amputation was fairly new. Not only did she receive a Congressional Medal of Honor, but it was taken away from her when the government didn't want to keep paying all these pensions. Then it was restored after she died by Jimmy Carter, but she still wore that pin till the day she died.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think is the importance of telling these lesser known stories in Women's History Month or at any other time?

Alexis Coe: I think they eliminate our country, our society, our norms and values and how things change and how they don't. When we look at some of these struggles to be recognized for really good works or contributions, or simply for loving the person they wanted to love. They tell us not just about this woman or her life, but about our country.

They invite us to look at the different pressures. When I think about Alice Mitchell in 1890s Memphis, it's not just same sex love. We have modernity, we have the country changing. We have Memphis and very much not on track with Nashville and other major cities and hurting because of it. There's so many tension. A story for me, a personal story is always a vehicle to tell the larger stories about ourselves.

Brian Lehrer: Let's do another set. Gina in Elmwood Park, you're on WNYC. Hi Gina, who's your female first?

Gina: Hi, my female first is Sarah Thomas who is the first woman to officiate a college game, a ball game, and most recently the Super Bowl. Being a female football player myself, I played professionally for the New York sharks for a few years. This is huge for the entire female football community and she's really a trailblazer for many girls in the future.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much. Great one. Ryan in Flatbush, you're on WNYC. Hi Ryan, who is your female first?

Ryan: Hi, I'm sorry I was in a weird zone on the hold thing. My person is my grandmother. Her name is Aliyah Sola. She was a journalist in Lebanon which from people of her generation was definitely a first among women. She was one of the first people to interview Gadhafi after the coup and Libya. She also had a famous beef with the Yasser Arafat who ended up being a friend of hers. Her real first that she'd to tout in the family, which I can't totally verify, but she claimed to be the first woman in Lebanon to wear Blue Jeans which she had specifically managed to secure from Texas.

Brian Lehrer: Ryan, thank you very much. Let's go next to Pam in Morristown, you're on WNYC.

Pam: Hi, Brian. You can hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you. Who's your female first?

Pam: Jean Rosenthal. I actually just learned this this month. As a lighting designer, I'm a little disappointed in myself, but she's considered the pioneer to theatrical lighting design. She is a first-generation Jewish-American and lighting design wasn't really on the table. It was up to mainly the set designer and the director and she came in and she took it to the stage and she put the lighting designer at the table and really changed the whole aspect of the career and the design.

Brian Lehrer: I'm curious for you working in the field, how you didn't know her and how you recently came to know about her.

Pam: I got my degree in a BA, so I learned all the different aspects of theater. Then I learned about her through Facebook. A post came up and like women's history month describing her. When I went searching for her book, it actually has been discontinued. They don't publish it anymore. I feel like that had a very big part in how I didn't hear about her, but other than that, I felt the same way. I was like, how is this the first time I'm hearing of this woman?

She wrote a book called The Magic of Light and I have not been able to find it. When I do find it, it's like $300. I find it amazing, especially because technical theater does go unseen in some ways and then here's this really strong woman who just decided to, especially in the early 1900s, just put herself at the table and say, this is important.

Brian Lehrer: Pam another great one. Thank you very much. We have time for one more and I see that we have two people calling about the same woman, the variety Alexis has been amazing. So many different women, from so many different fields, from so many different countries. Only in this case have even two people called about the same woman and it's somebody who gets the credit apparently as the establisher of the first university in the world but who should I take? Muhammad in Elwood Park or Zara in Franlkin. Muhammad or Zara, Muhammad, eenie, mini. Zara in Franklin you're in WNYC. Who's your female first?

Zara: Hi there. My female first is Fatima al-Fihri who founded the world's oldest continuing university in 859, I believe. One of the alumni was Pope Sylvester II.

Brian Lehrer: Awesome and since you did it so briefly Muhammad in Elwood Park, is there anything you want to add about Fatima Al-Fihri?

Muhammad: It is the town where Rambam the oldest and the most famous Rabbi from Spain went and continued his education in Morocco.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. That was a wonderful tag team there. Alexis, last thought as we go out. I think I read that you generally are not that big a fan of Women's History Month.

Alexis Coe: I'm not. I think a part of it is we don't have these great conversations about first. We see these lists, they say the same thing every year, the same women, and we don't get any of these great details. They're often also lifted from Wikipedia, books are out of print, Internet Archive often has that was by the way for that caller. I think, we have to remember, we have to ask what these first mean. Not just that they were the first woman and then that they would open up the field. Hopefully there would be another and then many more, but what were their lives like?

When I think about Jane Grant, starting at the New Yorker, she was 18, she was hired and told explicitly you will never get a byline. It is not the way we run this newspaper, women don't aren't staff writers. She was called Fluff, that was her nickname in the office. Just the amount of indignity she had to fight against and persevere. A year later, she ghost wrote her first piece and she, in fact became the first woman reporter. When we say first, we have to imagine it wasn't just like, "Oh, here I am." There was a lot that went into it and it didn't stop the second they got the job.

Brian Lehrer: Alexis Coe is writing that biography of Jane Grant. She's the author of You Never Forget Your First: A Biography of George Washington now out in paperback. Her previous book, Alice + Frieda Forever: A Murder in Memphis is being turned into a film by Jennifer Kent. So we'll watch for that. Alexis, we always love it when you come on the show, happy Women's History Month and thank you so much.

Alexis Coe: Thank you.

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