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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. This week has been full of COVID vaccine and guideline news. First, you may have heard that on the show on Tuesday that the FDA approved the use of the Pfizer vaccine for teenagers as young as 12. Guess 12 was technically preteen, but you know what I mean. According to CNN, the approval will allow another 5% of the population, nearly 17 million teens to be vaccinated beginning immediately.

Yesterday, the CDC announced that fully vaccinated adults can safely resume activities indoors, as well as outdoors without masks or distancing in gatherings large or small. Now, these two big announcements raised the stakes significantly for unvaccinated people, as more and more people remove their individual precautions after vaccination with CDC approval for those who choose not to get the vaccine, that may not seem like a big deal, but to those who cannot get the vaccine, including kids, this week could have been a game-changer.

We'll talk about the shots for kids now, the mass guidelines later in the show. Joining us again are S. Mitra Kalita, co-founder of URL Media and CEO and publisher of Epicenter-NYC, which has been helping to connect harder to reach New Yorkers with vaccine shots. Also back with us is Dr. Victor Peralta, a pediatrician with a private practice in Jackson Heights, and a member of SOMOS Community Care, a network of providers in the Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn, who have come together to ensure a better health care for Medicaid members, in particular. Mitra and Dr. Peralta, welcome back to WNYC.

Mitra: Thank you, Brian.

Dr. Peralta: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we'll open up the phones. We especially want to hear from parents with young teens. Do you have questions about vaccinating your kids? What, if anything, is holding you back? Did the updated guidelines increase your urgency in getting the vaccine? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280.

I'm curious for some of you if your teens are the ones pushing to get themselves vaccinated because they want to see their friends with fewer restrictions. Maybe we even have some teenagers listening right now. Do you have questions about the vaccines and how they work? Or tell us your own reaction to this news. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. Dr. Peralta last time we had you both on together, it was to discuss that all the vaccines were available for everyone 16 and older. Now only the Pfizer vaccine is available for everyone older than 12. Why just Pfizer?

Dr. Peralta: The FDA and the CDC have both given the emergency use authorization to only the Pfizer vaccine because it's the only one who had the studies done and ready, that proved that it was still safe and effective to use at that age. I'm sure that Moderna vaccine will very soon also receive the same authorization.

Brian Lehrer: Are the new CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated teenagers the same as for fully vaccinated adults? In other words, can they ease masking and distancing rules that much as well when they're fully vaccinated?

Dr. Peralta: Yes, it's expected that the recommendation is just going to apply to them the same way that it applies to adults. They're receiving the same dose, or they will be receiving the same dose as the adults are receiving. The results of their studies show that the reaction and their effectiveness and the side effects are about the same. Yes, I have no doubt that the same recommendation is going to apply to them.

Brian Lehrer: Mitra, on your quest to get everybody a shot, who's eligible for a shot, especially the harder to reach people, how big a step do you see this opening to 12- to 15-year-olds?

Mitra: I think it's a great step. To your point about, are kids going to push their parents to get this now? One trend we've been seeing and we've been talking about for the last few months have been families who want to be able to go together, so if anyone was putting it off the ability to now have a family fully vaccinated only works in our favor.

Then I do think, in many families, especially immigrant families, we've seen over the last few months that sometimes it's their kids reaching out to us to get their parents vaccinated, some of them in exactly this age group. Clearly, children, especially among immigrant families are the connection to some of these official websites and the vaccine sites themselves in order to help navigate. I'm really happy that they get their due now too.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and I see in your recent article you wrote, "Remember, the vaccinated are our best ambassadors." You think vaccinated teens can be good ambassadors to their friends and their adults?

Mitra: I think that's right. Also, remember, we're just weeks away from summer. It's starting to feel that way, but we are also seeing a number of programs that mandate vaccines to either enter them, to get into them. For teens, this is also just, you want to have a summer and be able to camp or do other activities or sports. I think that's also going to help propel families to move over into getting vaccinations.

Brian Lehrer: Ginger in Bed-Stuy, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ginger.

Ginger: Oh, hi, gosh, I didn't know it's going to be. Hello, hi.

Brian Lehrer: You called us. You shouldn't be so surprised.

Ginger: I thought I would be 10 in the line or something, in a queue. I have a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old. The 16-year-old just got her second vaccine yesterday at the Medgar Evers site here, which was great. The 13-year-old, I want to have her vaccinated, but I'm nervous about it. I'm just a little bit like a deer caught in headlights.

Brian Lehrer: Dr. Peralta, talk to Ginger.

Dr. Peralta: Ginger, if you were convinced enough that your 16-year-old should get the vaccine, you should have no doubts about having the same done for your 13-year-old. I'm sure that your 16-year-old received the Moderna vaccine, which is the one that was approved for younger children.

We know from the studies that they are actually more effective on adolescents, they create a more robust response and defense against the virus on children 12 to 15, and that side effects are comparable. There's no difference in the symptoms that they have after the vaccine. It's safe, we know it works, and we know the robust defense on adolescents creates a very effective response. It should not deter you from giving it. Actually, it's been studied that it will probably be soon approved for children 2 to 11.

Brian Lehrer: Ginger, I hope that's helpful. Please call us again. Remy in Hockessin, Delaware. Remy, did I get the name of your town right?

Remy: No, it's Hockessin.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks for calling in, Remy. Do I see you're 15 years old?

Remy: Yes, I am.

Brian Lehrer: Do I see you got a shot yesterday?

Remy: Yes, I got it yesterday.

Brian Lehrer: I think that was the first day it was available, so you ran right out. Where'd you get it?

Remy: Yes. At Walgreens.

Brian Lehrer: Why did you go so quickly?

Remy: Because I wanted to hang out with my friends.

Brian Lehrer: There you go. How did it go?

Remy: It was pretty fast and easy. It didn't hurt that badly. I know that I don't have any side effects.

Brian Lehrer: Which shot did you get?

Remy: The Pfizer.

Brian Lehrer: Did they give you an appointment for exactly three weeks from yesterday for the second dose?

Remy: Yes, they did.

Brian Lehrer: Good. Anything else you want to say about it?

Remy: I feel like most people should go get it so that then we can return to normal.

Brian Lehrer: Remy, thank you so much. Really appreciate you calling in. Jen in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Jen.

Jen: Oh, hey, hi, Brian. I didn't expect to be picked--

Brian Lehrer: Another one.

Jen: Especially about this topic, because I called many times. I am a mother of a 12-year-old girl, and many women that I know have had some menstrual reactions after their shots, myself included. I am not alone in having hesitation based on concerns about endocrine disruption, or hormonal, anything that might-- I don't know has there been enough focus on that stuff, even for grown-up women? I don't know if that's-- I'm vaccinated, but it gives me great pause with my 12-year-old girl.

Brian Lehrer: Dr. Peralta. Can you talk to Jen?

Dr. Peralta: Yes. Data does not support a fear of the vaccine causing any disruption on the endocrine system. By now, after six months using this vaccine all over the world, tens of millions from the hundreds of billions of people have been vaccinated, and the data from the reported side effects do not show there is any incidence of disruption of hormonal systems. Of course, the menstrual cycle is influenced by many things, even stress can change your menstrual cycle. There is no reason to be afraid of the vaccine causing any alteration of the hormones on children, female or male.

Brian Lehrer: I hope that's reassuring, Jen. Although Jen did seem to say she thought she experienced something like that herself. What about people who feel they've experienced that? Do you think it's a coincidence?

Dr. Peralta: There is possibility that it is a coincidence, that it has no causal effect between the vaccine and the change in the menstrual cycle, but, like I said, these studies that have continued on everybody who's been vaccinated have not shown any data to be concerned about alteration of their endocrine system, or the hormonal cycle, the menstrual cycle. Like I said, menstrual cycles and hormone levels in the body change because of many reasons. The vaccine concern might just be the reason to be stressed out about it.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think if pediatricians were able to give out the vaccine yourselves, like in your offices, fewer patients would be hesitant to get vaccinated and fewer parents would be hesitant to get their children vaccinated?

Dr. Peralta: I definitely agree. The relationship between pediatricians and their patients and the families that they care for is very intimate. It's continuing. The fact that they come in with their children, their trust a pediatrician with their children makes them more prone to follow the pediatrician's advice. I'm sure this will not only benefit children getting vaccinated, but also their family members, their parents getting vaccinated too. Also, you cannot underestimate the capacity of adolescents to convince their parents to change their mind.

Brian Lehrer: Mitra, we saw that in one of your recent articles on Epicenter-NYC, you wrote that it's important to understand that not everyone has a doctor. How does that affect the ability to get a vaccine into every potential arm, especially for BIPOC kids?

Mitra: Yes, it's a great point. I definitely agree with Dr. Peralta, and my hope is that when they roll out vaccines for ages two through nine, which is, when it comes to getting shots, a way more sensitive group, I say this from firsthand experience, as the mother of a nine-year-old. My hope is that they roll that out and indeed do arm pediatricians' offices to give the shot, because right now most folks are doing it in the way that your collar just did, the pharmacy or the vaccine sites.

For the population that's either uninsured or doesn't have a doctor, I think there's two things we need to do. One is, vaccines in many ways are an opportunity for us, especially for children, to educate families on what healthcare access they might have and might not be taking advantage of. Is there opportunity to connect them to a doctor or someone more familiar with the science and the side effects as questions are inevitably bound to arise?

The second is just the outreach on the vaccines themselves being safe, abundant, available here, the signage that you could do. I think that outreach, especially for families that might not have doctors but just need to know that they have access to it, they don't need to be insured, they don't need to be documented, I think that would go a long way with the BIPOC families that you're speaking of, who might not have an intimate relationship with the doctor.

Brian Lehrer: Carmen, a parent in Astoria, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carmen. Are you surprised to be chosen two?

Carmen: Yes, very surprised. Hi, Brian. Quick two questions. I won't take much of your time. I have an 11-year-old. I am vaccinated, she is not. I had some troubles after vaccination with getting shingles, getting infections, getting all kind of things that never ever happened to me before the vaccine. I'm a really healthy person. I'm really into keeping healthy. I am not going to vaccinate my daughter for that. The second thing is, why is it that kids will be asked to be vaccinated, but teachers are not asked to be vaccinated, when the teachers actually are more prone to get sicker to develop all kind of, let's say, long how--

Brian Lehrer: Yes, more sick from the disease. I'm going have to leave it there for time, Carmen, but great questions, both of them. I'm going to ask the mayor, who's going to be our next guest, what he thinks about requiring teachers to get vaccinated. That was a surprise in the mayoral debate last night. We were talking about that in our previous segment when none of the candidates said teachers should get vaccinated, even though most of them should be required to get vaccinated, even though most of them said the children should be required in the New York City Public Schools.

Dr. Peralta, briefly, how would you answer Carmen's first question about if she had what appeared to be an allergic reaction, should she then not get her daughter vaccinated?

Dr. Peralta: I'm not necessarily sure that she had an allergic reaction, but if the concern is an allergic reaction, the risk is very low of the vaccine causing a serious allergic reaction, possible, but very low. If the shingles and the other symptoms, some of the other issues that she had after the vaccine, are related to get into vaccine, that is an open question, we do not know. It's possible, but it possibly has nothing to do with it.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Can I squeeze one more in? I'm going to do that. Cason case on in Asbury Park. Cason, you're on WNYC, but we've only got 20 seconds for you. Hi, there.

Cason: Okay, I'll just make it quick. I'm just apprehensive about getting my child the vaccine because nobody really knows the long-term effect, he's special needs. I want everybody to be safe around me, I want him to be safe, but, at the same time, I don't want to put them in jeopardy as well. The vaccine hasn't even been around long enough to do even a proper study. I'm just trying to get as much information as I can to make an informed decision.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. To that point, Dr. Peralta, I'll give you one last shot here for 20 seconds for yourself. I apologize for being so short on this. Children, we do treat children differently in medicine, right? Because their bodies are still developing, and so it's different in that respect, with respect to long-term impact, if anything.

Dr. Peralta: That is correct. We do not know what the effect of COVID-19 is going to be on the ones that got it in the next 10 or 20 years. We do not know because it's only been around for months, what the long-term effect of the vaccine is, but with a long history of vaccinating, we know that it's unlikely there's going to be anything. My best advice is, talk to the children pediatrician, he will have time, he will answer all your questions, and probably, hopefully, is your mind.

Brian Lehrer: Mitra, last 20 seconds on anything you want to say to close it up?

Mitra: Sure. I do think that, for the last caller, and I say this as a mother, there is an element of nerves that we need to address, and allay, but, on the other hand, we also can use stats, 22%, I believe, of current COVID cases in the United States, are children, and so the risk of our children getting COVID is a current and present risk. My hope is that the fear of that outweighs the fear of the vaccine. The last thing I'll say is, just on signage, which I alluded to earlier, the more that our sites, whether they're mobile or permanent, can put out front, this is the Pfizer vaccine, it's for ages 12 and up, it's free, you don't need to have documentation or immigration status, you don't need insurance.

We have doctors and scientists on site to answer your questions, I think that will really go a long way right now in laying some of these fears.

Brian Lehrer: We thank S. Mitra Kalita, who's been coming on with us weekly during this vaccination period, with such great information and her website, Epicenter-NYC, also URL Media, and Dr. Victor Peralta, a pediatrician with a private practice in Jackson Heights, and a member of SOMOS Community Care, a network of providers in the Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn. Thank you both so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Peralta: Thank you, Brian.

Mitra: Thank you, Brian, and great job last night in the debate, we loved watching you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. This is WNYC FM/HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Nepcon, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio, coming up in our second hour, it's Ask the Mayor, my questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio, and then we'll talk specifically about the new CDC guidelines on masks for vaccinated people, that got announced yesterday, and we'll talk also about that strange outbreak on the Yankees.

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