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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For the next few minutes, before John Liu is our next scheduled guest, we'll have a call in on the question, if you've had COVID this summer, where do you think you got it other than from someone you live with? 212-433 WNYC, 212-433-9692. We'll call this an exercise in anecdotal epidemiology. You can also tweet, what do you think the source of your COVID was this summer, @BrianLehrer. The reason we're doing this is that with a very transmissible BA.5 variant so dominant, and contact tracing not what it used to be, I think we've lost track of what actually constitutes risky exposures.

I've asked multiple experts who've come on the show recently, some of you have heard these exchanges, what does 'most transmissible variant' actually mean? I've been asking that question. If the previous rule of thumb was 10 minutes-ish of close contact with an infected person to have a meaningful exposure, is it now two minutes, three minutes? If a certain kind of filtration or air exchange was sufficiently protective in the past, does it need to be some other standard today because it of BA.5? None of the experts we've had seems willing to answer with specifics like that.

Let's just share our stories and see if we can begin to figure it out, or at least get some additional clues. If you got COVID this summer, where do you think you got it other than from someone you live with? 212-433 WNYC. By the way, the reason for 'other than someone you live with' is that we know household transmission is very common, but we know what that is. What's more unknown right now is where people are bringing it into their homes from. Where did you get your COVID that you then brought into your home?

We had a caller last week who said he got it on an Amtrak trip. We can't confirm that, and I didn't follow up to see how much the caller could really pin it down. Is anyone else listening who think you got it on public transportation? Subway ridership is still 40% below pre-pandemic levels, so a lot of people are apparently concerned about getting it there, even though some studies during earlier variants indicated transmission there was rare. Does anyone here think you got COVID this summer on any form of public transportation? 212-433 WNYC.

I know two people who think they got it attending weddings this summer. Do you think your wedding or a wedding you were a guest at was a spreader or super spreader event? What about other indoor activities? What about theaters or little music clubs or from indoor dining in a restaurant? How about people who work in those kinds of places? You're the canaries in the coal mines, always. Are you getting COVID in your restaurant jobs or music venue jobs or Broadway or Off-Broadway theaters or movie houses or concert halls, when maybe you weren't seeing it so much before BA.5? 212-433-9692.

What about outdoors? I have a friend who believes he got COVID outdoors at a memorial service, where he says, yes, he was outside but having lots of close contact, mostly hugging and having intimate conversations with his fellow mourners. I didn't get to ask if he was wearing a mask. That's a variable I can't pin down in that case, but does anyone else think you got it outside? 212-433 WNYC, or tweet @BrianLehrer.

To that point, maybe you heard the New York State Health Commissioner Dr. Mary Bassett on the show this week and she said she's wearing a mask these days, even outside, if she's on a crowded street. I asked her, what about Yankee Stadium and Citi Field, which are both getting like 40,000 fans a game on many days packed in the way they do? I did see one article this summer that said, with BA.5, if you're in a crowded stadium and there isn't much wind, it could be a risk for people sitting very close to you, if they're talking to you.

Maybe it's not happening there at all. I hope the answer is that being outside like that really is that protective. In any case, you get the idea. It's anecdotal epidemiology. We will take every story, I will say, with a little grain of salt because it is anecdotal, but many of you, especially if you tend to be COVID conservative in your lives and in your behavior choices, might have a fairly good idea of where you did get it, because you know that your exposure was rare, so you can isolate that variable. If you've had COVID the summer, where do you think you got it other than someone you live with? 212-433 WNYC. We'll take your calls after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. All right, if you got COVID this summer with presumably the BA.5 very transmissible variant, where do you think you got it? Maybe we can learn something from where people got it about what the current risks are. Jane in Chelsea, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jane. Thanks for calling in.

Jane: Hi. I had COVID last month. It was the second time and it was super, super mild, but I had it last month and I'm completely sure that I got it on the airplane coming back from Ireland. I thought it was interesting, because on my way to Ireland, everyone at Newark, and everyone on the plane, sorry, was wearing a mask, but on my way back, everyone in the airport in Dublin and on the plane back from Ireland was not wearing a mask. I offered the guy next to me a mask and he didn't take it.

Brian Lehrer: How much do you think you can isolate it to the plane? Do you have anything in the back of your head like, "Oh, I was also in this room with those people," or anything like that?

Jane: I was in museums and restaurants and stuff on my trip.

Brian Lehrer: That's a thing.

Jane: I just feel like the recycled air and I was so close to all these people and it just seemed like, as I was sitting there, I was like, "I'm going to get COVID." Then, three days later I got a positive test.

Brian Lehrer: Okay. That's your impression and the timing sounds about right. If three days later, you got your positive test, Jane, thank you very much. Alice in the East Village, you're on WNYC. Hi, Alice.

Alice: Hi. I think that I got COVID in Oslo, because in Arendal, which I was in before Oslo, everyone was very casual and I was away from people, just my cousins. Then, I either got it in Oslo when I was there or I might have gotten it on this boat that goes from Norway to Sweden, and in the middle people buy liquor really cheap. That's a really closed in space. That's probably where I got it. Anyway, I had it on the airplane. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Oh, you had it on the airplane, but you didn't know it yet? Is that right?

Alison: I didn't really know it. I suspected it, but I had to get on the airplane.

Brian Lehrer: Boy, that's an ethical dilemma, too, right? [crosstalk].

Alice: What did you say?

Brian Lehrer: That's an ethical dilemma, too. You think you have COVID but you get on an airplane.

Alice: Yes. No, it's an ethical-- because I had about $2,000 in the bank, and it would have cost me at least $1,000 to stay, and where would I have stayed or isolated?

Brian Lehrer: That is definitely a conundrum for people who get it when they're away from home. Alice, thank you very much. All right, first who happen to think they got it on international travel, interesting. Here's Jen, on the Upper West Side. This is going to be interesting, I think. Jen, you're on WNYC. Hi, there.

Jen: Hi, Brian. I haven't a clue where I got it, although based on your question to the person that you just spoke to, maybe I got it at my health class because I was taking yoga. I wear a mask, nobody else does. I haven't a clue how I got it. I actually asked people because I was going to be in a enclosed car with people and I said, "Would you please take a test?" Of course, I did, too. Voila, I was positive, and I was stunned. I even took another one three hours later with a different brand and I was still positive and it took me nine days to get rid of it. I haven't a clue where I got it.

Brian Lehrer: Your only theory is possibly in your health club. I assume that was an indoor space with a bunch of people in the same room, right?

Jen: Right, where they spread people out and whatever else, and I'm the only one who wears a mask in that place. Nobody else does [laughs]. That's my guess because when I walk on the street, I take my mask off, and when I see people approaching I put my mask up. When I'm ever indoors any place, I always have my mask on. I haven't a clue.

Brian Lehrer: Jane, thank you very much. I wonder how many others of you got COVID and don't have a clue where you might have gotten it. At least Jen has one potential exposure because she was in a room with a lot of people where a lot of them weren't wearing masks. We had a caller the other day who said he has an N-99 mask. I didn't even know there was such a thing, but you know those numbers, 95, 99, supposedly, they reflect the percentage of the particles, of exactly what size I'm not sure, that they protect from coming in. 95% is not 100%. I guess some people wearing a mask in some circumstances can still get it, but that's an interesting story from Jen that probably raises more questions than it answers. Sam in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sam.

Sam: Hi, Brian. I met up with a friend of mine at a bar in Hamilton Heights earlier in the summer. It was the first time either one of us had gone out for the week. It was actually a bar with big open windows, lots of breeze, good air circulation. About five days later I called him, let him know I was feeling terrible, itchy throat. He felt the same. We both got tested and we were both positive. It was the only place we had really been for the past week, so we assumed that must have been it. The other interesting thing is we both got it very differently. He had a pretty bad case of it, whereas I was very blessed and was able to get past it with just a little bit of relaxation. It was just like a cold for me.

Brian Lehrer: Sam, thank you very much. I'm glad you're okay. Listener tweets and says in quotes, "I believe,' which probably indicates they're not sure, "from a coworker who contracted it three weeks after my employer brought everyone back to the office. No symptoms the whole time. Five weeks later, tested positive. I believe BA.5 variant from a large concert as I had multiple symptoms. Neither required hospitalization. Vaxed and boosted." That's somebody. Someone else, "I caught COVID in Milan." This tweet says, "So much international travel while attending a mobile design show. I'm pretty sure I caught it at--" names of particular bar. We don't have to do that.

Somebody else writes, "I didn't get covered myself, but we ended up with a semi-spreader event at my daughter's outdoor wedding in late June. 13 positive out of a 115-person wedding. Luckily, everyone came through, even my 88-year-old mom," writes this listener. I mentioned in the intro the caller from last week who said he got it on an Amtrak trip. I think he's calling back. John in Hell's Kitchen, you're on WNYC. John, is that you?

John: Yes, it is, Brian. How are you doing?

Brian Lehrer: Good. Did you want to elaborate and try to pin that down for us?

John: Yes, I think so. Of course, none of this can be 100%, but my partner, my wife, and I had been on the Cape. I left early, I took a ferry back. I was up top and then I went to the train station. It's all pretty much open air. Then, I got on Amtrak and really 99% of the people were not masked. The conductors were not masked. It was packed. The trip, of course, during Amtrak it was delayed almost a half an hour. It was a close to a five-hour trip down to New York.

There was an altercation between two young ladies and a conductor. It got heated. I spoke at it trying to defend them. It went around but I got off the train finally in New York, took the subway home. Two and a half days later, I started developing symptoms. I had been really not exposed to people after I got back to New York, and everything had pretty much been outside, so I can only really put it there. That's all I can think, and I was masked.

Brian Lehrer: But most people not? Was that your experience, or most people yes?

John: 99% of the people on the train were not, and it was a full train.

Brian Lehrer: John, thank you very much. I guess it's that timing that gives people the clues in so many of these cases. If you get your symptoms or even your surprise positive screening test two, three days later, then you think, "Oh, what did I do two, three days ago?", because that tends to be the incubation period before it expresses, and all those things. I guess what we're learning is that as people go back to our regular lives, there are going to be risks. Everybody makes their risk calculations. Anne in Jackson Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Anne.

Anne: Hi. Yes. Sorry, I didn't expect to get on. Here I am. I have COVID right now--

Brian Lehrer: I always love this, by the way. People call in and then when they get on, they say they didn't expect to get on [laughs]. I'm glad you're on.

Anne: I'm actually isolating right now in Jackson Heights. I just came back from a celebration of life of a friend and a son who passed away in Oregon. I knew it was going to be a risk going there. It was with a really lovely community of people who live in very rural Oregon. If I can generalize, like hippie anti-vax and even anti-mask and the celebration was all outside

Brian Lehrer: That's interesting, you're saying hippie anti-vax and anti mask. Usually, we think of right wing these days.

Anne: Yes, no, this was very much-- There was talk of 5G and microbiomes and it was an incredibly moving celebration on a farm where there was a hike with goats to the old-growth forest to spread their composted bodies. One woman then later was said to have had COVID. I knew that that was the case, and I was testing every day, and tested even like every day when I was there, tested negative, wore my mask there, and tested yesterday morning even though I was feeling fine and saw a very faint line and immediately isolated.

The interesting thing is that I also went to the health services or one of those test and trace mobile sites after testing to see if I could get Paxlovid right away. They say it came back negative. I went home and took another test which showed positive, and now was able to see a doctor later and throughout the day the line just kept getting darker and darker. So--

Brian Lehrer: Interesting, Anne. Thank you very much. Two more tweets. One person writes, "Just out of isolation for COVID. No idea where I got it. I mask inside and on the subway. Live alone, no one in my immediate circle was positive." One more person with a little bit of advice, "If mask isn't tight, N95, N99 doesn't matter. It gets in through the sides. Also, some chance through eyes. Cars recycle air unless you change the setting each time." A little advice there.

We're out of time for this segment, but just a little anecdotal epidemiology. I'm not sure that we proved very much or learned that these exposures during this BA.5 variant were so different from our callers, from what might have infected people before, but some interesting anecdotal epidemiology there which should not be mistaken for data-driven science. Use it however it helps you inform your choices.

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