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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. After last week's Democratic Convention, here we are, on the first day of the Republican Convention. It looks like it's beginning as a living representation of the mixed messages that President Trump has been giving all year about the Coronavirus and with questions about how seriously he takes the movement for racial justice and police accountability.

Now, most of you were just hearing the details of what happened in Wisconsin yesterday to 29-years-old Jacob Blake. The statement from the governor of Wisconsin, Democrat Tony Evers, that was briefly referred to there at the end was while we do not have all the details yet, what we know for certain is that he is not the first Black man or person to have been shot or injured or mercilessly killed at the hands of individuals and law enforcement in our state or our country. We stand with all those who have and continue to demand justice, equity, and accountability for Black lives in our country.

That's what the governor of Wisconsin said last night or early this morning, but as we all know, the police killing of George Floyd is transforming the conversation about police violence and racial justice generally in this country, but as the convention begins, the President's language as of last week barely acknowledges any need for reform.

President Trump: Biden and Harris are pro-crime and anti-cop. There's no other way to say it. We're anti-crime. We are pro-cop all the way. I've gotten the endorsement. I got the endorsement. Pat Lynch, New York City Police.

Brian: President Trump last week, will the Republican Convention take this issue seriously, or just condemn the movement as the mob, a word the President likes to use, which path will they see as to their political advantage? Tonight, as it happens, the only Black Republican in the Senate, Tim Scott of South Carolina will be one of the speakers. Let's see if he tries to defend Trump's record on this in general, or references the shooting of Jacob Blake in the back seven times at all, and as for the virus, they are in Charlotte, North Carolina, right? We remember that Trump canceled the original plan for the Charlotte convention because the Democratic governor, Roy Cooper was insisting on social distancing. Trump was then going to move it to Jacksonville, Florida, remember, where the Republican governor was going to allow full attendance indoors in a convention hall, but after Florida opened up too quickly and the outbreak in the state got worse, Trump acknowledged reality back on July 23rd.

President Trump: I'll still do a convention speech in a different form, but we won't do a big crowded convention per se. It's just not the right time for that.

Brian: It's back to Charlotte and with the social distancing rules, but he still wants to make a show of something more in person than the Democrats had leaning toward his argument that things should re-open more quickly. Today's roll call vote, that nomination vote, for example, which was all on video, or I think 49 of the 50 states were on video plus seven territories during the Democratic Convention, they were having fun with the different scenes of the different states and calamari from Rhode Island and all of that stuff. Instead, the Republican version today will feature more than 300 delegates in person indoors, required to submit to temperature checks, but not to get tested for asymptomatic cases. They will have to wear masks and I read that they will have to stay distanced, I don't know if it's six feet or whatever their standard is, but you could see how the contradictions are fully on display.

Can they have it both ways, adhering to the rules that the governor of North Carolina wanted in the first place while making a show of opening more quickly than the Democrats did? With me now Associated Press White House correspondent, Aamer Madhani, now covering President Trump's re-election campaign. Prior to joining the AP last year, Aamer was a long time correspondent for USA Today where he had served as White House correspondent and Baghdad Bureau chief. Most recently, he was USA Today Chicago-based national correspondent covering stories including the 2020 presidential campaign, policing in America, and more. Aamer's latest article published yesterday is called The bully pulpit: Trump pushes Washington, but the virus resists. Aamer, great to have you with us. Welcome to WNYC.

Aamer Madhani: Hey, thanks for having me, Brian.

Brian: As someone who has covered both policing in the Midwest and the 2020 Trump campaign, how do you see them intersecting today or not after the shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin yesterday?

Aamer: I don't have any direct insights since last night of what happened in Wisconsin, but generally speaking, I don't see him particularly connecting this Wisconsin case. I, of course, could be wrong, but I think as you pretty much laid out really well, he wants to connect Democratic cities as being these bastions of violence and that Democratic mayors have put up with too much looting and disregard for the law. He's going to pivot for this main theme that he's looking at as part of his campaign as the "law and order" President.

He's ripping a page out of the Nixon playbook on this. It's so eerily similar, but I don't see him going too deep and trying to be reflective tonight in his various appearances or really any of the folks that are going to be on the stage over the next four nights. Really going too far deep and trying to say, we need to have some reckoning or reconsideration as a people about where we are with racial injustice and police brutality.

Brian: Which means we'll wind up with two very polarized parties from what you're describing because the Democrats last week, to be fair, avoided talk of crime on the rise this year that the Republicans want to attribute to the racial justice and the police accountability movement. The Democrats docked even the parts of the crime wave that are real, that would be a vulnerability for them. Now, we see the other side politically speaking. I guess you're saying your coverage of the President indicates that he is not going to address racial justice generally, or police accountability specifically in any kind of big way, like time for big reckoning, let's use that word. He will just duck those whole topics?

Aamer: I think so. I think it's going to very much focus on the chaos and that there's been a surge in crime in some big cities like New York and Chicago, Philadelphia, elsewhere, but I think the problem and as part of the media, and as someone who for a big chunk of my career has covered crime in big cities and violence, what we often forget, especially in these recent years and that violence itself, we're still near- when we look as a nation, we're near historic lows.

I'm not in any way condoning terrible violence and people's lives that are lost to gun violence, but let's put this in a big perspective. Yes, we've had some pockets that are related to some broader things that are going on right now, but overall as a nation, and especially when you look over the last 50 years of where we are, we're back down very close to where those lows were 50 years and homicides and shooting levels if we set aside the spurt that we've seen in the summer in gun violence in cities, and only in a few cities. I think that gets lost in the conversation as well.

A lot of the conversation I think also missed some of the practical aspects. I've spent a lot of last few years of my career in Chicago, where there's now about 12,500 cops. That's I think second still only to New York. There's more cops in Chicago than LA. In the last decade, Chicago spent about a billion dollars, a billion with a B, on police settlements. I don't hear in this conversation also a practical sense of- can even cities even afford to police the way that they're policing? Regardless of what side you're on the issue, though really there's sides, there's a broad spectrum on this, people aren't talking about this as a practical way and that we just can't afford to go at it the way we've been going at it for such a long time when it comes to policing.

Brian: With your experience reporting from Chicago including on policing and crime issues, what do you see as the reason for the spike in shootings in Chicago this year?

Aamer: It's been a very difficult summer. We've had a pandemic. We had George Floyd- having this reckoning. We have a lot of young people that are unemployed. When you look at a place like Chicago which I could speak to better than New York or Philadelphia or LA, a vast majority of the shootings that occur in Chicago happen in about five different neighborhoods that have intense levels of poverty. Intense levels, ideas of gangs have even changed, but where there isn't a whole lot of opportunity. There's a deficit in education from the parts of the city where I live and where my child goes to school than some of these kids that you hear about that make national news that get hit by a stray bullet. That aspect is getting missed in this whole conversation we're having about violence in cities right now.

Brian: Is there any indication yet what senator Scott's convention speech will be about tonight? Again, Senator Tim Scott Republican from South Carolina scheduled to speak this evening, the only Black Republican in the Senate, I think he's the only Black Republican in Congress. I don't think there are any in the house right now. Correct me if I'm wrong. Will he defend Trump on race per se or Trump's lack of attention to police accountability? Do we know what Senator Scott is going to say?

Aamer: I don't know what Senator Scott is going to say today, but the theme of today is the land of promise. On Tuesday, they're talking about the land of opportunity, and then Wednesday's the land of heroes, and then Thursday when Trump speaks, the theme is land of greatness. What Trump has promised with this convention and how he says he's going to differentiate is that this is going to be more positive than what he says.

His take on the Democrats was that last week's convention was too dark. He's going to stand apart from the Democrats because the programming will be far more positive and will show what the future could lay out for the country. The problem though that President Trump has going into the convention is we have some 177,000 dead from the virus. Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving some type of unemployment aid. Last week jobless claims ticked up again. It's a tall order to push optimism on Americans during this really really dark period.

Brian: On the question of Black Republicans in the house, I forgot that Congressman Will Hurd from Texas is still- he's not running for reelection so he will be out. He's the only Black Republican in the house, Tim Scott the only Black Republican in the Senate just to clear up that fact.

Aamer: Thanks for that and I apologize for- [crosstalk]

Brian: No. I think it was me who got it wrong. My guest is Aamer Madhani, AP White House correspondent covering the Trump campaign, formerly covering Chicago including policing issues for USA Today. Let's transition to the virus now which you just brought up. Your latest article published yesterday is called The bully pulpit: Trump pushes Washington, but the virus resists. When you say Trump claims that have a more positive convention than the Democrats, I'm sure it'll be more positive with respect to his successes regarding the Coronavirus and more negative with respect to what he says what happened if the Democrats in the White House. You're right that the President has transformed a public health crisis into a political litmus test. What do you mean by "litmus test" there?

Aamer: It's now become this culture war, almost every aspect of how we look at it, and you go to some of these swing or swing-ish battleground states, whether you wear a mask or not, how you're paying attention to your public health officials, everything about this process which shouldn't be politicized, it should be science, has become a political choice. He's framed it this way. The problem also with the President is- on things like masks, for example, he's been all over the issue on it.

First, it was because the health officials were saying, no masks because there was a concern about the amount of PPE. The federal government's stance was that way. Then it was, "Well, we're recommending you wear a mask, but it's a recommendation, you don't have to do it." Eventually, in recent months, he's fallen on the side, "Well, wear a mask." Then when there's opportunities to side with cultural warriors on the idea of the government pushing a mask on you and mandating it, and using it as a political cudgel against Biden who's basically said that he'd be open to a mandate, a federal mandate for masks to try to finally stamp out this disease, he said, "Why should all states be treated the same?" He's turned that into a state's right issue. We're at this moment where no matter really where you live in the country, if you're wanting to get back to a sense of normalcy, there seems to need to be some unity in how we approach this.

Brian: It is interesting that I'm sure Trump will take credit for the fact that some of the states in the south and west that have been seeing spikes in Coronavirus cases and deaths this summer, the new cases rate is starting to decline, but there's an article in The New York Times today that breaks it down more locally than that within these states and says it's the areas that have imposed local mask requirements where the new case rate seems to be leveling off.

Listeners, I want to invite you into this with Aamer Madhani, AP White House correspondent covering the Trump campaign. How do you see Trump's handling of the virus and of racial justice, the two big issues of 2020? As his convention begins, Trump supporters, Trump detractors, people who are mixed, people who are mixed up, all welcome to call (646) 435-7280, (646) 435-7280, or tell us what will you be watching the Republican Convention to see if you will be watching the Republican Convention.

I wonder if this sorts by Republicans last week being like- whenever they turned on the TV during Democratic Convention coverage and didn't even watch, and a lot of Democrats will go, "Ugh," and won't even watch the Republican Convention because it'll gross you out. If you're going to watch, if you're wherever you are in the political spectrum, including Republican, what will you be watching for? What do you want to see if you're a Trump supporter, or maybe now as a lot of people are ambivalent Republicans, at least in this area? (646) 435-7280 with Aamer Madhani from the AP.

The convention optics, to continue on what you were saying, it's going to be this mishmash, I guess from what I'm reading. He's going to have this in-person convention in parts in Charlotte like the roll call vote today with 300 plus delegates, they'll be in person, but they will be separated by however many feet. There is a mask mandate in order to get in the convention hall, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. How do the optics of that all play out for or against Trump?

Aamer: One, the camera is always on him, I don't know, I think it'll get brought up by reporters. I was hearing from a colleague this morning. I'm not in Charlotte today, but somebody that had shown up early to the convention hall, and there were a lot of people without masks on, I'm sure that'll change over time. You see that just in general with some of these events. It's all over the place.

[unintelligible 00:19:51] played some sound leading into this from his event at Bedminster where he had the New York Police union. You get a smattering is what happens with all of these events. Some of the cops were wearing masks, some of them weren't. I imagine you'll see a lot of that at a lot of these events, a lot of the events are going to be outdoors. Some of the big ones, the first lady is speaking in the Rose Garden, and my schedule, I'm pretty sure that's tomorrow that she's speaking, Trump himself will give his big acceptance speech on the South Lawn. Again, outdoors. Pence is speaking outdoors.

There's a mix of these things. The outdoor venues allow for a little bit more social distancing. A little more social distancing with outdoor events. You have more space to spread out. You have hopefully a breeze and some fresh air that also mitigates some of the risks for folks. I think that it's been played over and over again. We've seen this. If you're watching the news carefully, it's there. You watch it at every rally at every event there's mass people and there's not mass people. To borrow the President's phrase at this point, it is what it is.

Brian: We're now approaching 180,000 Coronavirus deaths in this country. That's the "is" in "It is what it is" when he referred to deaths that way in the interview the other week, and the tension continues over the thousand deaths a day this summer, more than any other country, more than all of Europe combined and Europe has many more people than the United States while the President repeatedly declares victory and urges people to get on with their lives like it's over, which causes more virus. Here's what President Trump said in April taking credit for already limiting the death toll.

President Trump: The minimum number was a hundred thousand lives. I think we'll be substantially under that number. Hard to believe that if you had 60,000, you can never be happy, but that's a lot fewer than we were originally told and thinking.

Brian: Now, of course, we're approaching 180,000. If this thousand deaths a week pace that's been going on all summer continues the 10 more weeks till election day, we're going to be right around 250,000 deaths at the time that the in-person votes are cast on election day itself. How will he try to portray the current situation as a success on his part this week?

Aamer: I think what we've seen already is that he makes a claim if he didn't shut down travel when he did, that we could have had millions that would have been killed. I think there's also this other aspect of it for Americans, and I'm interested in seeing how this plays out in the week ahead and how people weigh their choices, but economists are even talking more and more about this. Trump likes to claim that there's going to be a V-shaped recovery, but there's something now that it's a K-shaped recovery. If you're lucky enough, to have a white-collar job or in a job where you're lucky enough to work from home and sit on your laptop and have a 401(k), you might be in a better place financially than you were at the beginning of this year if you're a part of that cohort of people, but then there's the bottom, the people that work-

Brian: The bottom 99% whose wealth doesn't come primarily from stocks.

Aamer: Exactly, where the stock market isn't the economy, where you're one of the 30 million people receiving some type of unemployment benefit right now. That's going back to what I said before, it's a really dark period for a lot of these Americans. Prediction games, I think it's a fool's game, it's pointless, but we know things about how elections are and how it's- as Reagan said, do you feel better off now than you did four years ago? I guess the point I'm making is if you're employed, it's a broader question, and there's more to it for than for the other 10.5% at least that are sitting at home right now and not being able to get a paycheck. You just look back since 1956 and the year before the election, we've had nine incumbent presidents, only one lost when the unemployment rate fell over that year, Ford in '76, and only one was really reelected when it rose, Eisenhower in '56. The virus wasn't of Trump's making, but historically we've judged presidents on the economy that they've left us with on Election Day.

Brian: Let's get some phone calls in. Rori in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Rori. Thanks for calling.

Rori: Hi. I was calling because I just wanted to comment on- my mother is- we're West Indian, lower middle class, and she was the board of ed on top of that. With all of that combined, she's still a huge Trump supporter simply because of what she sees on Fox News and because of her stock options through the board of ed, they're doing better than they were during the Obama administration. I hear her. She talks a lot of her friends and a lot of them are also lower middle class, West Indian people that have the same views and that's a fear for me because, given all of her background and everything else, we should be Biden supporters. I'm going to vote for Biden, but it's a fear because this is how she sees it simply because of her stock options and only that. She's not seeing all the other things that Trump is doing that's inconsistent or inaccurate and just plain wrong.

Brian: Of course, if you look at the economic curve over time, it bottomed out at the beginning of the Great Recession in 2008, 2009. It came back steadily under Obama, the growth rate in terms of just the sheer GDP growth rate was a little faster in Obama's second term than Trump's first term or a term so far. It's basically been a continuation of what's been going on with more than decade recovery. Trump hasn't screwed it up. He can get that credit, but it's kind of a continuation. Rory, I'm curious, did your mom vote for Trump in '16?

Rori: She did. She did vote for Trump in '16. Before that, she would always vote Democrat because I had an uncle that was still alive that would force her into that and convince her. Now that he's gone, she's a strong Republican. She loves Trump and I don't know what to do about it.

Brian: Rori, thank you very much for your call. We appreciate it. All right. Report from one surprise-

Aamer: It's interesting. Brian, I think Trump has done a really masterful job and taking a claim for the economy, but his economic record is unremarkable for a President of the last century. He has slightly less employment growth than his predecessors did, about the same GDP growth and a slightly better stock market growth. He's gotten through the message of this gangbusters economy that he's taken a claim for and that is the narrative.

Brian: Bridget in Redbank, you're on WNYC. Hello, Bridget.

Bridget: Hello, Brian. I put you on mute. I heard you discussing the convention and what we would like to see in the convention. I agree that Donald Trump is a masterful presenter, but the question I have is for all the small business owners, will he address what he will do for them? The restaurateurs, Redbank thrives on the restaurant business, and the restaurateurs are really hurting, for example. Small businesses are suffering and we have yet to hear from this President what he is planning to do for small businesses to help them recover.

Brian: Let me ask you, Bridget, did you hear anything concrete from the Democrats last week that would give you confidence that they would do better for you in that respect and for your community? What would you like to hear from the Republicans along those lines this week?

Bridget: It's a twofold question. In the first place, I did not hear much at all about policies throughout the Democratic Convention. I am a Democrat, so I excused that to whatever they say Donald Trump will use as fodder for how weak or ineffectual the Democrats are. I did not hear it, but I didn't expect to hear any policy issues advertised before the Republican Convention. What I would like to hear is even if Trump took one segment, what he would do for the restaurateurs. New York's restaurant business is part of my life as a psychologist and writer. I've sent people there and I'm not seeing a whole lot--

Brian: It's a mass tragedy that's taking place. It's a mass tragedy and the restaurateurs are petitioning Mayor de Blasio to let them open for indoor dining because the rate is so low, the positivity rate in New York right now, but he reiterated on this show last week as he's been saying elsewhere, that no, that's the way states that had gotten it down went bad. It's a terrible, terrible dilemma.

Bridget: The difference between in my opinion- and I'm a disenfranchised Democrat, I see the political arena becoming too chaotic and childish. What I'm saying about Trump and the Republican Convention is what are you going to do for small businesses? I have a friend who's a jeweler. He's from Brooklyn. He has been a jeweler, I'm not going to say how old- long time.

Brian: It's all right. Trump's going to say, I'm projecting now, and Aamer from the AP I guess just told us it's a fool's errand to try to predict and he's right, but if we can anticipate that Trump is going to say he's for small businesses because he's for faster reopening, while the Democrats want to keep everybody unnecessarily locked down, would that appeal to you?

Bridget: If the Democrats again-- I'm sorry, I am saluting Cuomo. It's organized. It's time. For this length of time, while we bring the numbers down in Redbank, for this length of time, we close down and open in an organized disciplined manner. I think we can become more in-house businesses.

Brian: Bridget thank you so much for your call. I really appreciate you'll call us again. Aamer, thinking anything as we had that exchange?

Aamer: I think one thing is what he has talked about- specifically she was talking about with restaurants and small businesses, he's talked about bringing back deductibility, so businesses entertain more essentially, this is something he talked about months ago into a pandemic and he had Wolfgang Puck and Thomas Keller and Daniel Boulud and some other big names celebrity chefs on the phone with him talking about tax deductibility. He's talked also about payroll tax cuts, that would push more money into the economy.

The problem with the tax deductability is that doesn't really help the small restaurant that the majority of us are probably frequenting more regularly and are desperate to stay open. Particularly in places like New York where you don't have indoor dining. It's a rough go for folks like that. Also with the payroll tax cut idea, the problem is you're putting social security at risk with that, the longer you put that off. He's dangled the idea of getting rid of the payroll tax indefinitely. The idea is that if you could force more money into the economy, you could help these restaurants. The problem is all of that is meaningless until people are feeling safe enough to go and sit down and eat in a restaurant and restaurants can fill up and safely have people eat in their places.

Brian: We're almost out of time. The Democrats, of course, played up Joe Biden's empathy and other character traits to draw a contrast with Trump. Along those lines, as it happens in the news today, I guess leaked just in time for the Republican Convention on purpose is audio of Trump's sister Maryanne, a retired judge who has refrained from criticizing him in public before, Trump's sister talking to his niece Mary Trump who just wrote that critical book, but the sister Maryanne had been part of the lawsuit to try to block the publication of the book. She was on Donald's side in that respect, but here's this audiotape of her saying this as obtained by the Washington Post about Donald Trump's character.

Maryanne: God damn tweet and the lying. Oh my God, I'm talking too freely, but you know the change of stories, the lack of preparation. The lying, holy shit.

Brian: Right. Obviously, the last word was bleeped, and if the whole thing was a little off mic for you, the text was, "This God damn tweet and the lying. Oh my God, I'm talking too freely, but you know the change of stories, the lack of preparation, the lying, the holy 'S'." Aamer, does any of this matter politically? Of course, it's too early to tell, but I think so many people who voted for Trump even in 2016 were like, " Yes the guy's personal character is shakey, but that's not why I vote for a President or not."

Aamer: Again, I hate the prediction business, but we know the Access Hollywood tape didn't change too many minds as far as we could tell from the final results of the election. At the end of the day, if you're a Democrat, does it help bring more people on the fence that you're pushing? Does it bring excitement and motivate people to get out and vote? At this point, it's who can get the most bodies to the polls or to the mail in time. That's what it's all about. There's very few people who don't have an opinion strongly about this President in one way or another and I'm not sure if titillating secretly recorded videotapes of his sister saying not so nice things about him matter.

Brian: Aamer Madhani, AP White House correspondent.

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