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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again everyone, and Happy April everyone. This year, the month contains all three of the religious holidays, Easter, Passover, and Ramadan. Ramadan comes first According to Al Jazeera. I thought it was today, but they say the beginning of Ramadan is determined by the sighting of the new moon. Al Jazeera says Saudi Arabia and other Muslim majority countries rely on the testimonies of moon sighter. The first day of fasting for the holy month of Ramadan is most likely going to be tomorrow, Saturday, April 2, says Al Jazeera.

If you're a Muslim, you might say, inshallah, at the end of that sentence. Inshallah, because it means God willing. Maybe you've even heard non-Muslims using it, like when Joe Biden said it during the first presidential debate against Donald Trump. When Trump was responding to a question about his taxes and moderator Chris Wallace asked this.

Chris Wallace: Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?

Donald Trump: Millions of dollars.

Chris Wallace: You paid millions of dollars--

Donald Trump: Millions of dollars, yes.

Chris Wallace: So not $750?

Donald Trump: Millions of dollars and you'll get to see it, and you'll get to see it.

President Biden: When?

Donald Trump: Let me just tell you--

President Biden: Inshallah.

Brian Lehrer: Inshallah, said, Joe Biden. From what I understand, Muslims were pretty divided over whether President Biden was using that phrase correctly, partly because it can be used in such a variety of ways. Just ahead of Ramadan, which it looks like begins tonight. The first day of fasting is tomorrow. Let's not confuse you about that. Let's talk about the concept of inshallah, and what it means for Muslims? We'll open the phones, and how it can be used to inspire hope?

Joining me now to discuss and take your calls is Abdullah Shihipar, writer and public-health researcher based at Brown University. His article in The New York Times magazine is titled Are Better Things Coming? Inshallah. Abdullah, professor, welcome to WNYC, thank you for joining us.

Abdullah Shihipar: Brian, good morning. It's nice to be here.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, if you're observing Ramadan this year, we want to hear from you. How do you use inshallah in your daily life? What are some of the things you're hoping for this month of Ramadan? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. One of the things we can definitely do here is have some fun with the word. Describe to everybody else how you use the word inshallah. Maybe a recent example of where you've used it. Your commentary on the way Joe Biden used it in that clip, or anything else you want to say about the word inshallah, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Maybe you've even introduced your non-Muslim friends to the phrase, so tweet @BrianLehrer something about inshallah, or give us a call now and tell us how you use the word or anything else that you want to say about your hopes for this year's holy month of Ramadan which begins tonight. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Abdullah, you write about how growing up your family use the expression a lot. Can you tell us a few of the contexts in which you heard it?

Abdullah Shihipar: My mom is actually listening, so I better get this right.

Brian Lehrer: So is mine. Hi, mum.

Abdullah Shihipar: [chuckles] Basically, there are a number of ways you use it. You can use it in terms of the mundane like, "Inshallah, I'm going to go to the store tomorrow." Someone says, "Oh, don't forget to drop off that check off at the bank tomorrow." You'll say, "Inshallah, I'll do it." The mundane, but then also when you have these big goals, so "Inshallah, I want to get into that university, or inshallah, I will ace that interview." Inshallah, big, more significant life goals. That's how it was used when I was growing up. It really runs the gamut between the daily and the mundane and things that you wouldn't really give much thought to, and the more big significant life events.

Brian Lehrer: Your parents I see are Sri Lankan immigrants, so they speak Tamil and not Arabic, and yet inshallah was a big part of their vocabulary, as you say. Is that pretty common in your experience of Muslims who aren't from Arabic-speaking countries, because it is an Arabic word, right?

Abdullah Shihipar: Oh, yes, for sure. It's one of the beautiful things I find about the word because the Muslims, obviously, Islam is a huge religion, billion people, Muslim span the globe in Asia, Europe, Africa, North America, South America, and everyone speaks a different language. What I found beautiful about inshallah is that this word it's universally known. Everyone knows it means God willing, everyone who is in the faith knows the context it's deployed in, and the additional context it's deployed in.

It's beautiful because people may speak different languages. You have this common term that can link people together. For instance, if you're thinking about immigrant communities, where people come, in the United States, for instance, where people might come from different parts of the world, like West Africa, or Indonesia, or Sri Lanka, in my case, having this common linkage of inshallah, even if you don't speak the same languages, it does provide that cultural bridge that allows people to relate to each other.

Brian Lehrer: The way Biden used it in that clip, it was in the debate against Trump on television during the presidential campaign, and Chris Wallace, the moderator, was asking Trump about whether the public would ever get to see his tax returns, and how much he paid. Trump said, "Millions of dollars, and you'll get to see it, and you'll get to see it." Biden said, "When? Inshallah." Which doesn't exactly mean, God willing, the way he used it. Like when? When God tells you to do it. What did you think about the way he used it there?

Abdullah Shihipar: I think there certainly is a sarcastic way of using it. It's not certainly the way we're told to use it in the religion. People in the Middle East, in North Africa, and certainly some other Muslim majority countries, they will use it to placate other people like, "Oh, are you coming to this wedding that you really don't want to go to?" "Oh, inshallah will show up." It's ultimately not something you would use for something that you absolutely do not want to happen. If you were to go to the wedding, it's not the end of the world, it's still a party, so there's no harm in using inshallah.

In the terms of Joe Biden's deployment, culturally it's correct, religiously it's not, but still, inshallah if Donald Trump showed his tax returns, that something Joe Biden would have wanted. You wouldn't necessarily say, "Inshallah, I want to injure my leg or something." I shouldn't say that. Take that back, but you wouldn't necessarily use inshallah in the context of something explicitly negative. Even if you're in sarcastic, you wouldn't say, "Well, inshallah something just bad is going to happen to me." Even at that deployment, people have understanding that this is a religious word and shouldn't be deployed so lightly for bad things.

Brian Lehrer: Although you write, "These days, this pious sense of optimism might be overshadowed by a more popular use, inshallah has come to take on a somewhat cynical edge." Can you talk about that cynicism, that context for using inshallah?

Abdullah Shihipar: Yes. In the cultural terms, it's used as a response, a call-in response to someone. It's always almost used in response to someone who is making a request or asking people to do something that you may not want to do, but at the end of the day, wouldn't be the end of the world if you did it, but then it's saying, "Inshallah, I'll show up to this. Yes, inshallah, it'll happen. Oh, can I get a PS5?" The parent will be like, "Yes, okay, inshallah, you can have a PS5, or inshallah you can have this thing that you really want."

For me, I never use it like that. It's just saying my parents didn't use it like that either just growing up. It's something that I encountered with other Muslims but growing up I use it clearly in the religious terms. I think there's a mixed usage now and I think the religious usage is becoming more and more prominent as well.

Brian Lehrer: Ahmad in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ahmad.

Ahmad: Yes, Brian. I love your show. I listen to your show every single day.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, sir.

Ahmad: The inshallah universal language now and my colleagues as you listen to them now, we say inshallah. We are different, very diverse religion and ethnic group, we use inshallah and God willing, and that impact from the religious perspective, inshallah you feel good, you don't feel guilty if you do something, you reach it, or you accomplish it or not, but when you say inshallah, we leave it to Allah, the God willing, so you're always happy, the outcome of what you want to do is you feeling okay. I did my part, and I'm [inaudible 00:10:16], I'm okay. Inshallah terminology is beyond the word itself in belief system.

I just want to add also about the fasting Ramadan in public school. I see 500 Muslim kids every single week, and I'm working very close to them. The fasting, seventh grader, sixth grader, fourth grader, they try to fast the whole day. We need to study the fasting impact in dietitian, in spirituality, and the determination. The fasting Ramadan, we need to learn from it for a larger segment of society. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Ahmad, thank you very much. Thank you for your call. I appreciate it. Call us again. On that last point that he made, Abdullah, do you want to comment on that? You're a public health researcher at Brown, so fasting as age-appropriate.

Abdullah Shihipar: Yes. I think there are certainly accommodations that should be made in terms of-- there's certain number of things to consider. It's not my [unintelligible 00:11:39] specificity, but it's always good the time of the fasting impacts on the body. It depends on when the month actually falls, because sometimes in the spring, it's a lot less than it is in the summer, and even less than the fall and the winter.

I think from a practical consideration, I would certainly encourage public schools to look into accommodations that they could give to students who are in the early upper years. To the elementary students, children who are younger, sometimes they'll do it as like, "I want to do it because I want. All the older kids are doing it and stuff." Usually, we don't see children under 10 fasting. For middle school students, for high school students, where there is more of a religious obligation for them to start fasting, that's where I would encourage public school systems and teachers to be a little accommodating in terms of scheduling things.

Brian Lehrer: For people who don't know Ramadan moves through the whole year. I guess a lot of people are happy when it's in the dead of winter because you can eat once the sun goes down, [chuckles] and the days are shorter. I don't know, maybe the Muslim community is against this permanent daylight savings time so it doesn't stay light later. Hassan Ali in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Hassan Ali.

Hassan Ali: Good morning. Thank you for having me. I'm originally from Haiti, born and raised. I moved to the States when I was 13. I reverted back to Islam about 12 years ago. Growing up as a Haitian Protestant, we always say [Creole language] meaning God willing. [Creole language] the way we use it is the same way inshallah is used. As a native Creole speaker and learning Arabic, and understanding the root word and how it's translated, how it's passed down through different use of language and the construction of language, and also the way in which that we've been able to solve the co-opted in our own language and change its meaning and still make it valuable in terms of spirituality.

There's a huge connection in terms of how it's used now. Our native language is Creole and [Creole language] we always use it like I'll see you tomorrow. When you say that is like we always add [Creole language] in there. It's not like speaking English you say God willing after each sentence. We use that very, very specifically to determine because God is the commander of all affairs, so we don't command anything, so we have to live that will up to God.

That's why we always use it even in Creole. I knew that had some specific meaning to it, but when I reverted back to Islam, it started making more sense for me in terms of the connection to the supernatural, and that's of understanding what it means to will something that is ordained by God.

Brian Lehrer: That's great. I love the connection you make between that and the Creole. Thank you. I think Elizabeth in Bergen County is going to make a connection between inshallah and a word in Spanish. Hi, Elizabeth, you're on WNYC.

Elizabeth: Hi Brian. Oxala in Spanish, I believe is the equivalent of inshallah. Probably has a root in Arabic, and it's very positive. It's a maybe so, God willing, of course, Allah is in there. Oxala, God's in there too, but it's a positive phrase meaning I hope it's so. I hope it will be so.

Brian Lehrer: It's got a similar sound. Elizabeth, thank you very much. Oxala, I think spelt O-X-A-L-A. Oxala, inshallah. Abdullah, I don't know if there's a relationship between the Spanish and the Arabic there. If some version of the word started, O-J-A-L-A. If a version of the word started in one of those two regions and migrated to the other and got adapted, that certainly happens in language, but that's an interestingly close word to mean the same thing.

Abdullah Shihipar: Yes. I've heard after publishing the essay in The New York Times, the word in Spanish is one I heard like repeatedly. That, "Oh, Yes. Well, we use it in Spanish too. We use oxala in Spanish a lot." It wouldn't surprise me if there's a connection because Muslims were in Spain for a while. It was like Spanish similar in Spain. It could be from there, and of course, there are lots of different connections between different languages. Certainly, it's something that I'm not aware about its specifics, but it certainly sounds related. It wouldn't surprise me if it is.

Brian Lehrer: Papa Ibrahima in Greenwich, you're on WNYC. Hello, Papa Ibrahima.

Papa Ibrahima: Hi, Brian. Thank you for taking my call. Hi to the person who you invited today. I'm a longtime listener and a first time caller. Thank you for taking my call once again. I am Muslim from Senegal. I would like to emphasize two aspects. The first thing is to give a shout out to the national soccer team of Senegal that just got qualified to the World Cup.

Just as your previous caller said, inshallah is a very strong commitment. It doesn't mean that you're saying inshallah when you're not sure, you're saying I would like to do this, but God willing, because I'm a Muslim and everything is left to God's hands. I'm not sure what God would decide but if God allows me I would like to do this. It's not like saying only God knows, but it's more about I would like to do it. Like the previous caller said, we have also variances depending on where you are. Because me, I originated from Sub-Saharan Africa, in Senegal.

In my local tongue, my look local language which is Pulaar, we will say [Pulaar language] or in the majority language that is spoken in Senegal which is Wolof, people will say [Wolof language]. Going through the Islamic or the Muslim ummah, you will see versions of inshallah which in Arabic means it's God willing. Like the previous caller say you will have a version in Spanish but you will also have a version in the countries depending on where you are.

I will just end my call by saying that I'm wishing Ramadan Kareem, a great month of Ramadan to the whole ummah and to the whole world. Once again, thank you so much for taking my call and you've been doing a great work and thanks so much, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much. That's very kind and Ramadan Kareem to you too. That's interesting, Abdullah. It's a little different use of the word inshallah not so much as God willing or yes, okay, I'll go like you were saying before, one of those two, but a commitment. God willing is like it's out of your hands, it's fate, God willing. He's talking about it being more of a commitment, an intentionality on the part of the speaker.

Abdullah Shihipar: Yes. I think when we say inshallah, we are putting it in God's hands, but there's this story and I said in the article, there's this story that the prophet, peace be upon him, had come across this traveler who had a camel and he was about to go into a tent or somewhere, and the prophet saw him not tying his camel, and he said, "Oh, why are you not tying your camel?" The guy said, "Well, I trust in God. I trust that the camel will still be here." The prophet was like, "No, no, no, you tie your camel and you trust in God."

The concept of free will is big in Islam. We believe in God's omnipresence. We believe that God ultimately determines what happens, but we also believe that that doesn't absolve humans of our choices and of our actions. While we say inshallah, it is both humbling and recognizing that there is only so much we can do, but also that we are required to do something. We can't just say inshallah and just leave it up to God and say, ''I'm just going to sit here.'' It's a balance, as I was saying in the essay between like human agency and humbleness before God.

Brian Lehrer: One more call. Deborah in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Hi Deborah.

Deborah: Hi. I am an Iraq Jew who escaped out of Iraq in the 1970s, grew up speaking Arabic and Judea Arabic, which is a version of Arabic. We use the word inshallah all the time and we still do just because the Abrahamic and our Christian friends and Muslim friends, we all use it together with the same meaning because they're all Abrahamic [unintelligible 00:21:20] and believed in the same God. It always had a little bit of hopeful tone to it. You start with God willing we'll be able to do that or somebody says something you say, ''Yes, God willing." Usually with some hope. At least when I grew up in Iraq, it was not specific to Muslims. With that, I wish Ramadham Kareem to all our Muslim friends.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much and feel free to call us back when we do our Passover segment later in the month. We will have to leave it there on this conversation about the word inshallah with our guest Abdullah Shihipar, writer and public health researcher based at Brown University. His article in The New York Times Magazine is titled Are Better Things Coming? Inshallah. Ditto to that for better things coming, inshallah, and Ramadan Mubarak to you.

Abdullah Shihipar: Ramadan Mubarak to everyone and I really enjoyed hearing people's stories about how the word related to them.

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