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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. In a little while, Kyle Cheney from Politico is going to join us and talk about the implications of the breaking news this morning that former White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, who was really there for all of it leading up to January 6th and on January 6th has agreed to testify this week before the Select January 6th Committee in the House of Representatives. Kyle Cheney's going to tell us why this breaking news is so important in a little while. First, while he's getting ready to do that, let's have a little Fourth of July recall in about patriotism and what it means to progressives in particular, if anything, in 2022.

Also that why you display the American flag if that's something that you do. Is progressive patriotism possible today? 212-433-WNYC. Why do you display the American flag if you do? 212-433-9692. Some background, who's had an experience like this? I have a lot of pieces of background to choose from. That's why I'm hesitating. Eeny, meeny, miny, this. As you were walking around your, let's say, mostly liberal neighborhood on Monday, Fourth of July, and maybe seeing some homes with American flags flying outside, did you think, "Oh, that must be a Republican family. I didn't realize that."? 212-433-WNYC.

Did you ever experience, walk around your neighborhood, see an American flag flying, "Oh, that must be a Republican family?" 212-433-9692. Maybe it's true. Last week, Gallup reported that the 38% of US adults who say they are extremely proud to be an American is the lowest in Gallup's history of asking this question, which dates back to 2001, 38%. The largest share was among Republicans. Republicans, 58% said extreme pride at being an American, so you see the disparity. Republicans are more proud of this country by 20 points than the national average if I'm reading this data correctly. Does the American flag outside connote a Republican household inside these days? 212-433-WNYC.

If you don't consider yourself conservative but you do fly the flag on the Fourth of July or all the time, tell your fellow listeners, your fellow Americans, why. I'll just touch another inspiration for this call. It was The New York Times Op-Ed on Friday by Jedediah Britton-Purdy, professor of constitutional law at Duke, called Democrats Need Patriotism Now More Than Ever. He's a self-described progressive, but he writes, "The patriotism we need is the patriotism of July 5th, which used to be a rallying day for abolitionists, particularly in New York State."

He cites the famous Frederick Douglass speech from 170 years ago What to the Slave is the Fourth of July? In it, Frederick Douglass denounced slavery as the greatest sin and shame of America, but he also wrote about the Declaration of Independence, that Fourth of July thing, "The principles contained in that instrument are saving principles. Stand by those principles," and he went on from there. Why do you display the American flag if that's something that you do, and is progressive patriotism possible today? Barbara in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Barbara: Hello, thank you. I display the American flag. I have two years because I felt that the right-wing had some false notion that they owned it, and ironically, by doing so they just teased it. I do not feel that patriotism is what you should be asking us about but rather the whole idea of what it is to be a civilian of the world and to understand that America has a fabulous--

[dogs bark]

Barbara: Sorry, my dogs. Has a fabulous constitution-

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles].

Barbara: -but it's really got a long way to go to live that too.

Brian Lehrer: I love it. Sounds like two dogs there.

Barbara: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Is this a liberal and a conservative dog barking at each other endlessly because that's all we do anymore?

Barbara: No.

Brian Lehrer: Sorry, it's a what?

Barbara: They've just been living with me, [chuckles] I don't know. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. All right. Thomas in Massapequa, you're on WNYC. Hi, Thomas.

Thomas: Yes, thank you. I had flags outside the house since September 11th, the original September 11th, because I've always been a registered Democrat, but I resent the way a flag display has been co-opted and not just my own personal private protest. I let people know and no one's ever said much, but this is an awfully Republican area out here in Long Island.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, Massapequa pretty Republican area.

Thomas: There are more registered Democrats in Nassau County. Unfortunately, they don't often show up at the polls and you get results like we get.

Brian Lehrer: Thomas, thank you very much. What the heck? We have another Massapequa caller. Actually, Massapequa Park, next door. Jim, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jim.

Jim: How are you doing?

Brian Lehrer: Good. What do you got?

Jim: I'm doing fine. I belong to the Massapequa Kiwanis and I am a proud displayer of my flag at my house. We also put up flags down one of the main routes that goes into a town. I feel it has nothing to do with party. Yes, a lot of my cohorts at Massapequa Kiwanis are Republicans. I'm a liberal, I'm a Democrat, and I feel it's not party-related. I feel it's just patriotism, feeling strength for your country. It should be displayed as your own particular patriotism.

Brian Lehrer: Jim, thank you so much. Enjoy the beach out there. Eme, no, let me say it right. Eme in Englewood. I'm sure I did not say it right even the second time. Hi, who are you there in Englewood?

Eme: Yes. Hi, Eme. My name is Eme, sorry. Hi, Brian. All my life I believed strongly in citizenship. Citizenship is being an active citizen, keeping the values that are important to our country such as freedom of expression, rights to everybody, and, to me, national patriotism with a question of nationalism and power. I was never a patriot but I was a very good and strong citizen.

With the attack on all our freedoms and rights that have been happening since 2016 and with this new Supreme Court, I believe that citizenship is being attacked and the citizenship completely aligns with the values of the country, which is to give rights and freedoms to all its citizens. Now I am a patriot because I have to protect those rights. I still don't like a flag because a flag just symbolizes power to me, it doesn't mean active citizenship. I would put on a flag right now just to show that us people who care about freedom and liberties are patriots. We are the true patriots.

Brian Lehrer: Eme, thank you very much for your call. Linda in Bellmore as we go back to Long Island. Linda, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Linda 1: Hi, Brian. It's great to talk to you. My husband and I feel passionately that we're not going to let Trump supporters or Republicans co-opt the flag. We live in a mixed neighborhood, some Republicans, Democrats, but we fly our flag and we continue to be proud of it. I just have faith in this country. I may not see it in my lifetime, I hope in my children. This whole idea of faith in my country gets knocked down by a lot of people I know, but I just refuse to go there. That's what I feel. We fly our flag on all the holidays. We were at a barbecue with Trump supporters on Fourth of July. Didn't talk politics, but enjoyed burgers and frankfurters and can live together.

Brian Lehrer: Linda, thank you so much. Here's another Linda in Scotch Plains. Linda, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Linda 2: Hi. I'm ashamed to say that we don't fly flags and sometimes even look down on people that fly flags because it seems like the Trump supporters have been so flag crazy. They have the parades and there are all these in-your-face flags and they're so aggressive about it that we just shy away from flying a flag. I know I shouldn't attribute the American flag to that, but I guess based on your previous callers, I learned my lesson and I should be proud to fly the flag.

Brian Lehrer: Linda, thank you very much. Yes, it's really interesting to me because part of the premise of this call-in was that I know various people and I have the question myself when I walk around a neighborhood. I was away for the Fourth of July and was walking around a place that I consider a liberal town in another state and seeing some American flags flying here and there as I was walking around and I think, "Is that a Republican family in this town?" Per Linda, it's unfair. Look at all the people who are calling in and say, "No, that's not what it means." To them, they fly the American flag for other reasons. Alexas in Red Bank, you're on WNYC. Hi, Alexas.

Alexas: Hi, Brian. My grandfather, he served in World War II. He burned Normandy. He walked to Germany. He served in Korea and he served in Vietnam. Four of my uncles served in the military. My grandfather never felt the need to fly the flag and be overly dramatic because he knew how he had served his country. I do feel the flag has been co-opted and for that reason, I don't want to use it in the way that right now in my community I see lots of big trucks with big fat tires flying flags from the back of the truck riding around.

I often think, "I wish a reporter would do an interview with all of those people and ask them specific dates in our country's history and if they're aware of mile markers in our country's history. Have they voted? What is it about attaching a flag to the back of their truck and driving in a very bravado machismo way is demonstrating their Americanism?" Yes, I feel that it's unfortunate how it's--

Brian Lehrer: Got it. Your military-serving relatives feel like their service is enough, they don't need to wear it on their sleeve by flying the flag, and I heard everything else you said too. Here's a different take from Judy in Port Washington. A different take yet. Hi, Judy.

Judy: Hi. Thank you. Yes. I always felt growing up that the flag was "belonged to Kate Smith and the Okie from Muskogee" and it wasn't my flag until September 11th here, and actually the 12th. I drove home from somewhere in a blizzard of American flags and something in me melted. I realized it's my flag too and that I hadn't felt that way until then. That I don't have to hate our military and I don't have to buy into all of the stereotypes. I can fly the flag too.

That's what I did on every occasion, but I have to say the day after Trump was elected, I put my flag upside down as the international sign of distress because that's really how I felt. I left it that way. A few days later when I wasn't home, somebody came up on my porch and "fixed it". I don't know who it was. I was telling your screener I wanted to buy a little camera and find out, but my husband wouldn't let me do it so [chuckles] I'm flying it today and I'm hoping for the best.

Brian Lehrer: You're flying it right side up?

Judy: I've gone back to right side up. Clearly, I upset somebody. It's my flag now.

Brian Lehrer: People may not know that, but I do know that's an international sign of distress, as you say, flying a flag upside down. I know somebody who as a political statement takes those American flag postage stamps--

Judy: Me too. Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, you do that? Puts it on the envelope upside down.

Judy: [chuckles] For a while I did.

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Judy.

Judy: Yes, I just feel now it's my flag. If other people are going to poke holes into the Capitol building with it, they can't have it anymore. They should go back to another flag. This one's mine.

Brian Lehrer: Judy, thank you very much for that perspective. Thank you all for your stories about flying the American flag regardless of your politics and being progressive patriots, those of you who consider yourselves.

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