Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're going to wrap up the show today with another style call-in. We've been talking about clothing a couple of times in this lived experience call-in segment that we often have at the end of the show, what kind of clothing you come out of the pandemic with different from when you went into isolation. Yesterday, we did, what kind of non-gender specific or gender nonconforming clothing have you begun to wear no matter where on the gender spectrum you happen to be?

Today, we're going to move away from clothing but stay with style and personal expression and talk about body modification. Now, body modification has been a human practice around the world for thousands of years, possibly for as long as humans have been on this earth with varying levels of acceptance depending on the place and time. As we continue our style call-ins, this time as we move away from clothes, we want to talk about more permanent forms of self-expression; body modifications, tattoos, piercings, surgical alterations like elf ears.

We can even talk about dye jobs since that is semi-permanent. If you bleach your hair a lot, it can permanently change your hair as I understand it. Listeners, give us a call at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 to talk about your tattoos, your piercings, or other body modifications, what inspired them, what meaning do they hold personally or culturally, and do you have to hide them at work or even from family members. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Did you know that there's a new bill in New York City Council?

Gothamist has a story on this now that would make it illegal to discriminate against people with tattoos with exceptions being made for tattoos that are deemed vulgar or feature hate speech. Employers would still be allowed to require employees to cover up tattoos for certain jobs, but the onus would be on the employer to make a case as to why covering the tattoo is necessary. That's an example of how these body modifications are controversial, and a lot of people don't understand why other people do them. That's what this call-in is about.

If you have modified your body in any way with a tattoo, with a piercing, or whatever, what did you do? Why did you do it? How do other people react to it? How do you deal with their reactions? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. One of the sponsors of that bill in City Council is Council Member Justin Brannan. He told Gothamist that he is, "Probably the most tattooed politician that he knows of." He was told by more than one person that his tattoos would prevent him from ever winning an election for public office. Well, that didn't turn out to be true, but it is New York City.

This all goes to show how much has changed in terms of tattoos and public perception in New York City, which actually outlawed tattooing between 1961 and 1997 because of concerns about hepatitis transmission, even though only a fraction of hepatitis cases were attributable to tattoo parlors. The New York City Health Department back then said, "Since it is a practical impossibility of the department to supervise each tattooing establishment at all times to ensure proper sterilization, a complete ban on tattooing except for medical purposes is the only feasible means of safeguarding the public against disease from this source."

Listeners, maybe you are even someone who got an illegal tattoo in the city between 1961 and 1997 and want to talk about that but how things have changed with City Council now considering a bill to ban anti-tattoo or body modification discrimination. Tell us about your body modification, what it means to you, and how people react to it. 212-433-WNYC or tweet @BrianLehrer. We'll take your calls and tweets right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now to your calls on your tattoos or other body modifications, why you got them, what they mean to you, how you have to deal with them out in public, at work, or even with family members or whatever. Miranda in Uniondale, you're going to start us off. Hi, Miranda, you're on WNYC.

Miranda: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Got a story for us?

Miranda: I do. I am a woman, and I've got a full body suit, I should say, all the way down to my wrist, everything. I work a very corporate job now. I have definitely noticed as somebody who's been heavily tattooed for, oh gosh, I'm going to date myself, well, 20 years, I've definitely noticed the shift, especially in New York where in corporate functions I would have to always button up, long sleeves. If I wore a skirt, I'm talking about wearing those thick, opaque, nude-colored nylons to hide my tattoos on my legs. Now, I don't even bother. I don't change. They're not butterflies, like skulls and things. I'm in the boardroom and it's not affected. It's definitely changed, I think, within the last four-ish years to [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: For our listeners who are wondering why do you get tattoos over so much of your body, what would you say?

Miranda: I just enjoy it. It's like permanent jewelry, I guess. It also helps my best friend is one of the best tattooists in the country.

Brian Lehrer: They make you pay? [chuckles]

Miranda: Of course, she does. You should check her out at Daredevil. They're the best. Anyway, I just personally find if you're wearing a plain outfit, it gives you extra accessories. I don't know. I just enjoy it. It's nothing specific to me. It's just, I find them beautiful, and it's another form of artistic expression.

Brian Lehrer: Miranda, thank you so much. We really appreciate your call. Rebecca in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Rebecca.

Rebecca: Hi. I have tattoos on my forearms only. I'm a minister and these tattoos are important to me because they help me to tell the story of my life, and they also remain visible to me to remind me of my own story.

Brian Lehrer: You want to give us an example? Is it too personal?

Rebecca: No, it's not too personal. That's why they're out there, right?

Brian Lehrer: You are displaying them, yes.

Rebecca: Yes. One of the first tattoos I got was of the Williamsburg Bridge, which was the bridge that I crossed when I moved to New York City 10 years ago, actually, and my life changed forever. I also have Tune My Heart To Sing Thy Grace, which is a line from a hymn, Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing. It reminds me to give myself grace and to tune my heart to give others grace.

Brian Lehrer: If you are a pastor, do you have a congregation, and if so, have you had a range of reactions to you being tattooed?

Rebecca: I have had only positive reactions. I'm the minister for intergenerational culture and children, youth, and families at the First Presbyterian Church of Brooklyn. It is an unbelievable congregation, who in my experience have given lots of examples of how Christians can be body positive, can exist in the world in many ways, and can express ourselves in many ways.

Brian Lehrer: Rebecca, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate it. Thomas in Islip, you're on WNYC. Hi, Thomas.

Thomas: Hi. Can you hear me, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you just fine, yes.

Thomas: Great. I'm a big fan. Thank you for taking my call. I've got a couple of tattoos. My family members, before I got them, I had expressed my wants to get them, and they told me it was a bad idea because they're more traditional in the sense of your body is a temple, why would you put something like that on it? When I got my tattoos, the vibe that I got from them changed a little bit because they saw how really when you think about it, tattoos are supposed to be an embodiment of who you are. You are proud of who you are and you want to display that on your chest, your arm, your shoulder, your neck, wherever it is that you decide to get your tattoo.

Most people don't really understand that this embodiment of who we are and us being proud of showing who we are actually can make a positive flip on what people think about tattoos. Now, my tattoos aren't crazy. I have one that is a brand from one of my favorite beers. It's a pink elephant from the beer brand Delirium. They have a beer called Delirium Tremens. It's a Belgian beer. One of my favorites. Obviously, that one was just for fun because I like elephants and because it was cute. The other one is a little bit more--

Brian Lehrer: They should pay you to be a walking billboard. Go ahead.

Thomas: Exactly. I could be part of their marketing team. The other one is a little bit more closer to me because I went to SUNY Oneonta to get my bachelor's degree in physics. Before I went to SUNY Oneonta, I got an associate's degree in computer science from Suffolk Community College. I mixed those two ideas together in a novel idea where the tattoo was essentially the delta symbol, which means change of in mathematics and chemistry and physics and the rest, and in Java, when you're coding, you call a function by using a period. I took the delta and I took the period, and then I put a less-than sign next to it.

It takes the idea that if I'm calling change on the less-than sign, which is the timeline of the numbers, I'm calling change on my past, which is a way to say, "I will look at my past before I can realize my future." That was special to me in a lot of ways. When I describe that to people in my family or people who ask me about it, they go, "Oh, that's really thoughtful." A lot of people don't really think about their tattoos in a really in-depth way. I think that's not really true. I think everybody has a story behind why they would decide to change their body [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: Yes. It's certainly what we're hearing on the phones from caller after caller, and I think it's the revelation for a lot of people of this segment which it's not mindless to get a tattoo. It's very mindful for a lot of people depending on who you are, of course. For a lot of people, yes. Thomas, thank you so much for that story. Peter or Parker, I should say, in Bushwick. Parker, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Parker: Hi, Brian. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love the show. I'm a big transit nerd. I just got my master's in urban planning. In 2018, I was crowned Miss Subways at the Riders Alliance Pageant. My most recent tattoo, which I'm very excited to share with everyone is that I got MetroCard on the upper part of the back of my left arm because I wanted--

Brian Lehrer: You got a tattoo of a MetroCard?

Parker: Yes, and it's true to size. I've always really liked the design of the MetroCard. It's about to be a piece of New York City history because they're phasing it out next year to replace it entirely with OMNY, so I just wanted to hold onto that forever.

Brian Lehrer: Wow, a MetroCard, life-size, real dimensions tattoo on your arm. Now, between now before it's phased out, will it get you into the subway?

Parker: [chuckles] I haven't tried yet. I'm a little worried with the increased enforcement of the subway, but my friend was suggesting I get a microchip inserted in my arm so I can use it to tap in on the OMNY.

Brian Lehrer: That'll come next. Soon there won't be an OMNY card. We'll all have to get microchips implanted. Thank you for that. How about that? A MetroCard tattoo. Paul in Essex County, you're on WNYC. Hi, Paul.

Paul: Hi, Brian. How are you?

Brian Lehrer: Good. You have two tattoo stories for us I see.

Paul: Yes. First off, I was going to say a lot of people talk about tattoos as self-expression. I also think they reflect your community, whether it's your family or your friendship, or your town. There's, I think, a lot of meaningfulness that goes into it. I got my first tattoo in 1997 out of state because at the time New York still had its ban, and my mom would not talk to me for about a month. She grew up in New York at a time when, if I remember her exact quote, the only people who got tattoos were sailors, and they got them with rusty nails. It took her a while to grasp that everything was fine, I wasn't going to get hepatitis, I wasn't going to get anything that was going to risk my life.

Also, I got my second tattoo out of state which related to my first tattoo. Then the interesting part of the story is my daughter, last year at the age of 20, decided she wanted one. I said to her, "Well, of course, you meet the first condition, which is I'd like you to be 18." Then I said, "Look, I'll pay for it. You need to know that it's permanent and I need to go to the place where you're going to get it." She agreed to those three things, and she now has a beautiful tattoo on her forearm, which is a lot more visible than mine.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to leave it there because I want to sneak in one more caller, but that's a wonderful story. You're the rare parent probably who is involved in their kids' tattoo and having the conversation about safety and permanence and then accompanying them. That is cool. We're going to sneak in Judy in Yonkers in our last 30 seconds because this call-in what we invited you to talk about was any kind of body modification. It's all been about tattoos so far, but Judy, I think you have something different for us in our last 30 seconds. Hi there.

Judy: Hi. For sure. I'm 80 and during the Zoom time, I decided I would color my hair with a conditioner. I tried lots of colors, ended up with purple, and the response has been really positive. People like it. I get a lot of comments from people saying, "My grandmother should be doing that too." I give them the brand name of the product. It's been a lot of fun, nothing negative. I don't know what people are thinking, but I like it.

Brian Lehrer: Folks, if you're walking down the street in Yonkers and you see an 80-year-old woman with purple hair, walk up to her and say, "You're Judy. I heard you on The Brian Lehrer Show." Judy, thank you so much for calling in. Thanks to all of you for your calls on your body modifications.

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