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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We're following three developing stories of great consequence this morning. The almost universal calls now for Governor Cuomo to resign and the corroboration of the charges against him. Mayor de Blasio's first in the nation vaccination requirement for entering many public indoor spaces. President Biden extending the eviction moratorium into October yesterday, after the fierce backlash from within his own party against saying the law required him to leave it to Congress. We'll begin with Governor Cuomo.

If there's any democratic politician left who is not calling for him to resign, they are being very quiet about it. You've probably heard by now that the collapse of support for him remaining in office after the Attorney General's report came out yesterday includes assembly speaker, Carl Heastie, who had not previously called for the governor's resignation. New York Congress members, Hakeem Jeffries, Mondaire Jones, and Gregory Meeks, they were in the wait-and-see camp. They've now seen enough.

Rodneyse Bichotte the Brooklyn Democratic Party chair and prominent assembly member who had previously said she was waiting for more information. Now she says resign. A joint statement calling for Cuomo to resign was issued yesterday. Did you hear this by the democratic governors of New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island? Speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi too, and yes, as of yesterday, even President Biden.

President Joe Biden: I think he should resign. I understand that the state legislature may decide to impeach. I don't know that for a fact, I've not read all that data.

Brian Lehrer: President Biden, that's a big deal, but maybe in its way, an even bigger deal Cuomo's Lieutenant Governor, Kathy Hochul, who of course would take over as governor, but has been loyal throughout. She issued a statement saying, "The Attorney General's investigation has documented repulsive and unlawful behavior by the governor towards multiple women. I believe these brave women and admire their courage coming forward," from Lieutenant governor, Kathy Hochul.

The governor support from his party for remaining in office has completely collapsed and an overnight Marist Poll of New Yorkers out this morning finds 59% say he should resign including 52% of Democrats, just 32% said he should remain in office.

One more thing before we bring in our first guest. This is not just a, he said, she said situation. It would be bad enough if it was just for having 11 accusers who all testified under oath, could they all just be out to get him and making stuff up, or over-interpreting old-fashioned friendly gestures. It's not just that, there's corroboration with documentary evidence and witnesses all over the Attorney General's report. I'm not sure that's breaking through enough in some of the press coverage. Here are a few examples.

In the case of Lindsey Boylan the executive from the Empire State Development Corporation, she testified under oath that Cuomo said things to her like she was more attractive than various famous actresses. That she reminded him of an ex-girlfriend of his, those were among her charges. The corroboration, the report says, "Some of the comments about her appearance were corroborated by her boss at the time at Empire State Development, Howard Zemsky."

It says, "Zemsky told Boylan. He thinks the governor has a crush on her and asked Boylan if she wanted him to intervene with the governor in some way over the governor's behavior." Zemsky also testified that on an airplane trip, the three of them were on in 2017. He heard Cuomo say to Boylan, "Let's play strip poker." Boylan's boss heard it and testified to it. That much alone would get a boss in many workplaces fired. Boylan was also the accuser who the governor retaliated against according to the Attorney General's report. With the governor's office leaking part of her personnel file to the press with all names except Boylan's redacted. They have that with file.

More corroboration. In the case of the state trooper on Cuomo security detail, who said Cuomo was inappropriate with her multiple times. Several other troopers said they witnessed the governor doing what she charged in the case of her description of him rubbing the palm of his left hand across her stomach, toward her right hip. Another trooper who was higher ranking described as a senior investigator, who was walking behind the governor at that moment testified to seeing that and others were called hearing about this belly rub incident after it happened.

Also accuser Charlotte Bennett texted many people at the time about the inappropriateness of multiple things the governor was saying to her and she perceived it. There's the timeliness of her texts. Also, the executive assistant who accused the governor of groping her under her shirt. Several staffers said they saw her get emotional when the governor denied one of the other accusations on TV, and then this executive assistant only then disclosed to them the incident she had previously kept secret. Corroboration is all over this report.

One more. A photo of Cuomo touching a woman named Anna Ruch, who he met for the first time at a wedding they both attended in 2019. The photo appeared on the front page of the New York Post earlier this year. Ruch testified that after briefly shaking hands, when they were introduced, Cuomo touched her back in a place where her dress had a cutout. She said she removed his hand from there quickly.

The governor said, "Wow, you're aggressive," and asked, "Can I kiss you?" The touch she found inappropriate happened to be captured in a photo that then got published. With us now WNYC and Gothamist reporter, Gwynne Hogan, and New York State Public Radio, Albany Bureau Chief Karen DeWitt. Hi Karen. Hi Gwynne.

Gwynne Hogan: Good morning, Brian.

Karen DeWitt: Hey, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: I think the corroboration is such an important part of the story. Do either of you have an example you would add to the ones I gave because there are others, or comment on one of those, Gwynne?

Gwynne Hogan: Sure, I'll jump in. That's such a great list and yes, the corroboration is so important in this report. It's not just a document of what people said. It's these contemporaneous accounts. For me, one that you didn't mention that really stood out was notes from two top aids, Judith Mogul, Cuomo's former attorney, and-- not Melissa DeRosa, DeRosa, excuse me.

They have notes that where they describe a conversation with Charlotte Bennett last summer. You see them walk through a conversation where they basically try to convince her that what she is describing is not sexual harassment. They get her to repeat, "Most of your interactions with him were fine. Isn't that true?" Eventually, she as we later and we had reported was transferred to another job and eventually left the office, but this is in their words, and that I found really powerful.

Brian Lehrer: Karen? Have one?

Karen DeWitt: I'm still trying to process all the documentation of the state trooper. The other stuff we had heard before and seemed pretty bad, but this just seems deeply shocking. The documentation, and also some of the female trooper supervisors who really didn't do anything about it, at one point said, "Keep it in the truck," which I guess means she was driving the governor. Anything that's said in the governor's car stays in the governor's car, and that really contributed to the atmosphere that led to some of these things.

I think you're right, Brian, to really point out that this is really documented because so much of our rhetoric these days is just politicized and it's people going around making accusations without much to back it up.

Attorney General James, she didn't leave herself open to anybody saying, "Oh, well, this can't be true, or you didn't prove this." She and her investigators, they just were very methodical. There might've been other complaints that weren't corroborated, but they put the ones in that they could find evidence to support. That is very important, but I would say right now it does not seem to be moving Andrew Cuomo. I was told this morning through sources that at least as of this morning he's not planning on resigning. He's dug in.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, your questions and comments about the governor and the Attorney General's report. Welcome here at 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or tweet @BrianLehrer with New York State Public Radio, Albany Bureau Chief, Karen Dewitt, and WNYC and Gothamist Reporter, Gwynne Hogan. Gwynne, are there certain aspects of the report that have really collapsed the governor's support or just the totality of the whole thing?

Gwynne Hogan: I think that it is really the totality. There was something Joon Kim said yesterday that these were not isolated incidents, this was part of -- [crossstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Joon Kim just so people know Joon Kim is the former US attorney who was on the Attorney General's team.

Gwynne Hogan: Correct. He was at this press conference with Tish James yesterday. He said, these are not isolated incidents, this is part of a pattern. As you read these more than 100 pages, you really see these similar things appearing, these similar things in each of these women accounts, how he intentionally targeted women who he found attractive, elevated them, brought them into his inner circle, and then made just starting with comments about their bodies, about the way that they dress. Constant comments about their clothing, if he didn't like a hairstyle.

You see each of these women describing how that played out in a separate way, in their personal experience.

Brian Lehrer: Karen, is anyone left in support of the governor remaining in office in Albany? Am I missing anyone?

Karen DeWitt: I don't think you are and if they are, they're not speaking up at all about this. No, he's completely alone, even more than the last time because now we have President Joe Biden saying he should resign. Now, in the past, the governor has tried to turn that to his advantage, saying that he's anti-establishment. He must be doing something right if all the politicians are against him. He's even said he's a victim of cancel culture. This is an awful lot bigger than the last time especially with the president weighing in.

It's just going to be very interesting to see if he's going to try to spin that to his favor, especially if he does have a public appearance later today. Right now, he doesn't have a public schedule, but there is some talk that maybe he might appear and have something. It'll be interesting to see how he built this. Will he be able to go back to business as usual? He did that the last time.

He started off with close allies, memorably NAACP President Hazel Dukes, a close family friend. He had a rally with her. Slowly he brought in politicians who had asked him to resign, including the senate leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins appeared at an event with him. Is he going to try to build back and go back to business, as usual, as this plays out. It seems unimaginable but I think it seems like that's the only choice he has is to try that right now.

Brian Lehrer: Also, with us briefly now New York State Senator Brad Hoylman, of Manhattan, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the State Senate, which would be involved with any impeachment trial. Senator, thanks for coming on.

Senator Brad Hoylman: Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's jump ahead a few steps. If it gets to the point where a majority of the assembly votes to impeach that goes to the Senate, how would that trial process work?

Senator Brad Hoylman: Well, it work very similar to what we saw at the federal level. The assembly would be responsible for conducting the trial. They would have their floor managers, and we senators, excluding the majority leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, and the lieutenant governor would sit as jurors along with the members of the Court of Appeals.

Brian Lehrer: All the senators plus seven members of the state's highest court, the Court of Appeals would be the ones ultimately voting to acquit or convict on impeachment charges?

Senator Brad Hoylman: That's right. I hope it doesn't get that far to be honest because we're talking about the machinery of government coming to a grinding halt. Remember also, Brian, that during this impeachment proceeding, as soon as the governor is impeached, he has to step aside from office. It would be, to say the least, an enormous event, even if we begin to draw up articles of impeachment through the state assembly.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, that's different than in the federal case. When President Trump was impeached he stayed in office, while the Senate held the two trials. In the case of the governor of New York, he would have to step aside and the lieutenant governor would take over while that trial in the senate took place?

Senator Brad Hoylman: That's correct.

Brian Lehrer: If the governor thinks he's in a-- Go ahead. Who wanted to jump in there?

Karen DeWitt: I wanted to ask the senator a question. I'm sorry, Brian. Honing in on your-

Brian Lehrer: Please.

Karen DeWitt: -on your job there. Hi, Senator Hoylman [unintelligible 00:14:35] What I'm wondering though if the governor doesn't resign, is it an impeachment trial inevitable at this point if he stays?

Senator Brad Hoylman: I would completely agree with you. Look, that's one of the reasons why we want to move this trial, to move these articles of impeachment, as they will be written as quickly as possible. I think that the assembly could move on the Attorney General's report alone. Goodness knows we have enough detail to demonstrate a pattern of abuse of power at the highest levels of state government.

Brian Lehrer: Senator, before you go, it's easier to find a variety of opinions among New Yorkers on the street than among politicians right now. Is that a disconnect on the part of elected officials or ignorance on the part of a third of New Yorkers, or how would you characterize that difference?

Senator Brad Hoylman: Well, I would say this, Brian, an overnight poll showed 59% of New Yorkers want the governor to resign or be impeached. That has moved appreciably just over the last few months. This is only a matter of time. I think sometimes the public is way ahead. Sometimes government officials are ahead. In this instance, I think we will emerge at the same conclusion, the governor must go.

Brian Lehrer: State Senator Brad Hoylman, thanks for giving us a few minutes.

Senator Brad Hoylman: Thanks so much.

Brian Lehrer: With New York State Public Radio, Albany Bureau Chief, Karen DeWitt and WNYC and Gothamist reporter Gwynne Hogan. Jennifer in East Harlem, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in Jennifer.

Jennifer: Good morning and thank you for taking my call. I have been someone who has come forward throughout my life to expose and report transgressing men in graduate school, and in various places throughout my life. I know what a process this is. I have faced enormous retaliatory measures and retribution in many forums. I really commend the women who have come forward.

I do want to say and I was struck by the New York Times article which addressed this, which I think is so critical that, number one, Cuomo's defiance is again, just a further reflection of his personality.

Of course, he wouldn't see that he's done anything wrong, because it's consistent with everything else about him. I think [unintelligible 00:17:18] cannot be underplayed in the analysis of this.

Beyond that, these men operate in systems and in frameworks that give them such enormous latitude to transgress. I think it's also very important and this was certainly true in my experiences, that some of the worst culprits and those who are the most consistent in the allowance of this happened to be many of the women who surrounded Cuomo and all of the men like this, who we have heard about over the past several years. I think we need to do a much better job of addressing that because these men are what they are. The types that achieve this kind of power and positioning have a certain kind of personality profile.

Brian Lehrer: Jennifer, thanks. I'm going to leave it there. Thank you so much for your call. Let's address what I think is Jennifer's core comment there. Karen, for you as a longtime Albany reporter, the caller says this whole Cuomo situation is a direct consequence, not only of his personality but of the entitlement that he gets in the framework in which he operates, which facilitates and provides latitude for behavior like this. How much does your experience tell you that's the case?

Karen DeWitt: Well, his family has run New York State for quite a while. His father before him had three terms. He didn't grow up in the mansion, but he was a frequent visitor to the mansion and has lived there for a decade now. I think you do get entitled. Also, Andrew Cuomo is really, really good at consolidating power. I think that we have seen that play out in some good ways where he's gotten things done, that couldn't be done. Remember a decade ago, when New York was the first major state to approve same-sex marriage, where he just bullied, threatened a few Republican senators, persuaded them to vote for it.

In some ways, consolidating power in a big messy state like New York can be to your benefit but we're seeing now that there's a downside because after a while, you're surrounded by people who they don't say no to you, or they bought in to your personality, as we say in the report. Where that normalize any bad behavior that he was exhibiting. There are people I see that in politics, I don't like to think of myself as one of them, who just they're attracted to power. There's an attraction to power and it attracts a certain aid and a certain people around you and sometimes I think they sadly get blinded by it.

Brian Lehrer: Nick in Cliffside Park, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nick.

Nick: Hi, Brian. Thank you. Just to follow up on that last call. She's 100% right on. That lady was. Cuomo should, of course, we all agree he's busted, right? He's busted. He should resign. He's not likely to resign. In my humble opinion, he does fit a profile. I dare say I would bet money that at least half of all men who achieve those kinds of levels of power and have money and power are engaged in those kinds of activities. A lot of these guys that are now looking to stab him and kill him politically are probably guilty of the same kinds of things. It's just that he has no friends and it's understandable.

There's a lot of sanctimonious hypocrisy. This is a societal problem. It is deeply entrenched in our whole macho, materialistic, male-dominated culture. That's where the change has to happen. This tragedy with him, it should have happened to Cavanaugh and Judge Thomas and to President Trump before Cuomo. If he's going to be the poster boy for a big change, then maybe it'll serve a positive purpose if we take this as a societal challenge to the whole country, not just as one guy doing something horrible. That's my point.

Brian Lehrer: Nick, thank you for your call. Gwynne, you could comment on any part of that that you want. One point that jumps out at me is Nick saying this is collapsing for Cuomo now and other men. Maybe he was painting with a broad brush about how many men who have money or power do these kinds of things per se. Cuomo support is collapsing because he's a bully. He doesn't have many friends left.

It reminds me of when Eliot Spitzer was governor, and the charges against him came out. He was pretty new at being governor but he had already alienated so many Democrats in the legislature that he didn't have any friends to begin with. I'm curious how much you think that's the context in which this is happening politically.

Gwynne Hogan: I do think that one of his greatest strengths as Karen was talking about was this consolidation of power that was less about consensus building and more about, "Do as I say at this moment, this is the way that we're going to move right now." I think that we've seen over the past few years more left-leaning lawmakers in the state assembly, in the state senate be elected, toppling that the IDC, the Independent Democratic Conference a few years ago, and that there's this new way about thinking about power that is challenging the ways that the state typically operate.

We know for years that sexual harassment has been a huge issue in Albany and widespread across the legislator as well. We've seen this is beginning to change, but Cuomo who's been in power for more than a decade. He is obviously still in power but we see how he's done that over the years.

Brian Lehrer: We'll take a break and-- Go ahead, Karen. You want to add something, please.

Karen DeWitt: I would just add to this. I know that it's cliche to call someone Machiavellian. Cuomo is really, really into follow the advice of the prince. Better to be feared than loved. I think people fear him here but nobody likes him. I would go as far to say that I've talked to many people in the Capitol over the years. They wouldn't say publicly that they hate him. That's coming back now.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue our coverage in a minute. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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Brian Lehrer On WNYC as we talk about the New York State Attorney General's report on Governor Cuomo's behavior and the political response, the collapse of support for him, among everyone from his own Attorney General to his own lieutenant governor, I should say to President Biden. Let me play a clip from the governor's pre-recorded video defense yesterday. He apparently recorded this after reading the Attorney General's report but before her news conference.

Governor Andrew Cuomo: I want you to know directly from me that I never touched anyone inappropriately, or made inappropriate sexual advances. I am 63 years old. I've lived my entire adult life in public view. That is just not who I am. That's not who I have ever been.

Brian Lehrer: Governor Cuomo yesterday as we continue with New York State Public Radio, Albany Bureau Chief, Karen DeWitt and WNYC and Gothamist reporter, Gwynne Hogan. Gwynne, he seems to be saying this is not who he is, but he also admits to doing many of the things as who he is as an old-school guy. How could he as recently as last year when some of these incidents took place think that kind of touching was just playful or affectionate or fatherly or not harassing?

Gwynne Hogan: That's something that you see in this report as well. Investigators interviewed Cuomo for 11 hours and they described a similar thing where he flatly denies certain allegations but admits to certain comments, but that he had different intention that they were interpreted, which is not the way that sexual harassment law is written. It's not up to the individual's interpretation if I think that the thing I said was a harassing statement. He tried to--

This is why these mixed messages that he's sending out is why the investigators over and over and over again in these 11 accounts were like, "This is not a credible defense. This is not a credible defense," when they were matching up the texts and emails and interviews with what he was saying and the evidence that he was providing.

Brian Lehrer: Karen, before we go back for some calls, for you as a longtime Albany reporter, was the governor's behavior toward women one of these open secrets that nobody chose to make a big deal of until the dam burst this year?

Karen DeWitt: Honestly, it was not an open secret to me. I was pretty surprised when it happened that he would go that far because I viewed him as a very smart and savvy politician. I really couldn't imagine him crossing the lines like this report say that he did, that would endanger his political future. Certainly, he can sometimes make a little bit off color joke. He some way seemed stuck in the 1990s with his humor. No, I really did not realize how far that he had gone with some of these things.

Brian Lehrer: Juliet in Newark, you're on WNYC. Thank you so much for calling in.

Juliet: Hi, Brian. Good morning, and thank you for taking my call. What Governor Cuomo has done is something that has been going on down through the decades. I worked in corporate America for 40 years. It happened every day. As we're speaking here, it's happening right now. My main question that I want to ask, we're holding Governor Cuomo's feet today, holding him to what he has done because all these women are white women. My question is, if they were Black women and Latino women, would they have held him the same way they are holding them now?

Brian Lehrer: It's a hypothetical. I guess we can't exactly answer it. Karen, these 11 accusers, are they all white women? Did Cuomo go for white women as the report seems to reveal it?

Karen DeWitt: We don't know that. The caller might be right that maybe Black women just didn't feel entitled enough to speak out about anything that might have happened. That really is an unknown. As far as we know, nobody has said anything. We can't prove it. It did seem like he did surround himself with a certain type of woman. Let's say a younger, good-looking white women. Most of them were executive assistants. That's one thing that struck me in the report.

In this day and age, these smart, well-educated young women, they're essentially hired to take dictation. Who does that any more? Go into his office, help him with his phone. They just seemed like low-skilled jobs for these women who some of them went to prestigious colleges. That's just another thing that raises questions about this whole situation.

Brian Lehrer: Which of course brings us back to the question of power. Gwynne, even though the caller premises are hypothetical, would everybody be holding his feet to the fire as much now if these victims had been Black? We have to look at it in terms of power because certainly, power has the power to push back. Lack of power doesn't.

Gwynne Hogan: Absolutely. I think that this is one of the threads when I was calling around months ago talking to people about workplace culture that I really wanted to talk to staffers of color and what their experiences were. Many of them were afraid to talk.

If you look at who his inner circle is, it is majority white people, many white women, and there were a few staffers of color who managed to rise through the ranks. Alfonso David who left is at the Human Rights Campaign, he was one of the highest level staffers of color in Cuomo's office, but I think that there's more reporting to be done on that front.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and again, just to be clear, we don't know the identity of every one of the accusers-

Gwynne Hogan: Absolutely right.

Brian Lehrer: -and therefore, we don't know all of their races, among other things. Logan in Crown Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Logan, thank you for calling in.

Logan: Good morning, Brian. A regular listener and I get on every so often. My concern is for the Black people that support this guy. I fought for almost seven years, I've been calling for his resignation on Facebook. This guy was a guy that was funding white public school students, almost twice the amount of money that he spends on New York Cities public schools. This guy rigged the building of a bridge and named it after his father. How much more arrogant could one be.

Here we have a whole bunch of Black people who have suffered under his hand, you heard Hazel Dukes come out and call him our son, [unintelligible 00:32:00] the embarrassment of Black people, yet when Kanye West came out and said that one of the major problems with Black people is that we've volunteered to be victims. We have all these people supporting somebody like Andrew Cuomo without stopping to look at his policies.

He has managed to drive New York to be the most segregated state in the country. This is a guy that Black people are supporting. We love to be victims, and it's embarrassing, it's a shame to us that we are supporting Andrew Cuomo today. What we need to do is stand up along the other politicians and advise them if he's not going to resign, just don't do any business with him work around him like he's not there. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Logan, thank you very much. Keep calling us. Karen DeWitt how do you explain as a longtime Albany reporter, the fact that there is such strong support for Cuomo in the Black community that after these various scandals, of course, we're talking about the sexual harassment, and retaliation and intimidation one, but there were others around the nursing home cover-up, et cetera. When these various things broke, he did run to NAACP conference. He did run to Hazel Dukes. He did run to Black churches and find welcoming audiences and he was able to wrap himself in that to try to ride out the clock.

Karen DeWitt: Well, I think again, it's about power and his consolidation of power. He's worked hard through the years to gain the loyalty of some African-American leaders by having various policies that please them. As the color point though, some of the underlying things that are going on in the state do promote racial inequality, but that people aren't really looking at that. I would just say it, the governor has worked really hard on that. I guess these leaders are just up until now, we haven't heard from them today who are reluctant to step away from him.

Brian Lehrer: Let me play one more clip of the governor and then take one more call for now and we'll come back to this later in the show. Here's another clip of the governor from his video.

Governor Andrew Cuomo: Trial by newspaper or biased reviews are not the way to find the facts in this matter. I welcome the opportunity for a full and fair review before a judge and a jury because this just did not happen. Other complaints raised against me questions that have sought to unfairly characterize and weaponize everyday interactions that I've had with any number of New Yorkers.

Brian Lehrer: Cate, in Jersey City, you heard the governor say that yesterday, and you wanted to comment on part of it, I think that's why you called in, right?

Cate: Yes, Brian, that is why I called in. It's driving me crazy. Of course, he wants a judge and a jury, because anything could happen. The jury could be on his side. It could be he said, she said, and nobody believes the women, and people don't usually assault women in private, so he's a lot safer with a judge and a jury. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking. I don't know if any of you have any thoughts on the matter.

Brian Lehrer: Karen DeWitt.

Karen DeWitt: I'm just wondering what does he mean by that, like impeachment jury or a criminal jury or civil cases because it's likely that there could be criminal cases, the Albany DA David Soares, it was surprising to learn that he actually confirmed that there's an ongoing criminal investigation, which we didn't know about. He's not starting one, apparently he's already started one. The Westchester County DA is going to get involved, presumably in the case of the state trooper because some of those incidents happened in Mount Kisco.

There's also a federal investigation that's going on. Don't forget the governor's being investigated on other fronts that we aren't even talking about. Does it come to a criminal trial that didn't go so well, for his former top aide Joe Percoco who was prosecuted in federal court and is now in prison. I just think it's just part of the governor's continued defiance at this point. At least as of yesterday, in that statement, he still thinks he can fight this.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, it's so annoying that on the one hand, he relishes his perception as a slick power broker, who is ingenious at consolidating and recognizing power dynamics politically. Then, on the other hand, he can plead ignorance, that he had no idea he held power over assistants in his office, like that. What happens next, Karen, I'll go back to you for this, and then we're out of time. What happens next, assuming he does not resign. How quickly does the assembly take a vote on whether to impeach?

Karen DeWitt: Yes, I mean, I think it could probably come right after Labor Day. I don't see how any assembly Democrats could vote against it at this point because their own political future would be endangered. Also, as I just referred to, there's still a federal investigation into whether he and his aide hid the true number of COVID deaths at nursing homes. The Attorney General James has another investigation on Cuomo's $5 million book deals. He used staff inappropriately to write and edit that. There's a lot of other things swirling around. It doesn't seem like there's any good outcome for the governor right now.

Brian Lehrer: We will leave it there for now. We will come back to this later in the show. These developments continue to move quickly this morning. We are waiting for the governor to come out. Again, that was a pre-recorded video yesterday apparently recorded before the Attorney General's news conference. He's going to have to answer questions from the press at some point or speak live at some point. We're waiting for that as well as some of the other developments, we'll come back to it later in the show.

We're going to go on to some other pretty big developing stories in their own right in just a minute. For now, we thank New York State Public Radio, Albany Bureau Chief Karen DeWitt and WNYC and Gothamist reporter Gwynne Hogan. Thanks, both.

Gwynne Hogan: Thank you.

Karen DeWitt: Thanks for having us.

 

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