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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For the last 15 minutes of the show, as we often do in this slot, a call-in. This time, we come back to the issue of the protests on college campuses and the schools' responses to them. This time, we'll invite calls from people who were involved 50 or 60 years ago in the last wave of campus protests this big, and widespread, and divisive from the Vietnam War era and the Civil Rights era.
Who listening right now protested in the late '60s or early '70s? What memories about your protests or feelings about today's, the current situation? What feelings and memories is the current situation prompting in you? 212-433-WNYC, if you're a person in that category. 212-433-9692. Who listening right now protested in the late '60s or early '70s? What memories about your protest or feelings about today's is the current situation prompting in you?
Maybe you even want to give advice to today's protesters based on your experience a long time ago. We had a high school senior caller last hour, and high school senior who's reconsidering the college that he got admitted to with his politics in mind, that caller, high schooler cited the Kent State shootings, knew that much history for students shot dead by National Guard members in the spring of 1970 at Kent State in Ohio.
Many schools shut down for the rest of the semester after that. Who listening right now protested in the late '60s or early '70s? With Columbia in the spotlight, was anyone listening right now at the famous Columbia University protest of that era in 1968? Does anyone with that experience relate to this? Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Will Bunch wrote, I think yesterday, "It is amazing how the protestors are always right 50 years ago and always wrong today."
Does anyone relate to that? Like almost all Americans say they respect the Civil Rights movement now and support the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act that were its primary goals, but back then, very divisive. Similar with the Vietnam War protests. Who relates to Will Bunch in the Philadelphia Inquirer writing, "It is amazing how the protestors are always right 50 years ago and always wrong today"?
We do acknowledge if you were a Jewish student protesting back then, you probably didn't feel an overlay of antisemitism as part of the campus environment. That's not to say that most of the protestors today are antisemitic, but that this feels related to many Jewish students who believe they're experiencing real antisemitism at least among some people supporting the protestors' cause today, and maybe you support the cause.
Horrific disproportional violence by Israel as maybe you see it in response to October 7th. You might even support the cause and you may even know that Jewish students are among the protestors, but still, maybe you feel like there is a new antisemitism on campus and that's really different from 50 years ago, 60 years ago. You tell us, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Who listening right now protested in the late '60s or early '70s? What memories about your protests or feelings about today's is the current situation prompting in you? 212-433-9692. We'll take your calls right after this.
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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now to your on-air college reunion with other people who protested in the 1960s and 1970s. Tom in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Tom.
Tom: Hello, Brian. I am an alumnus of the 1968 great student strike at Columbia. We were striking against both Columbia's ties to the Vietnam War and Columbia's racist policies in building a gym in the middle of the only park in South Harlem. I want to try to deal with as nuanced a way as possible with the whole antisemitism question. Back then, we were accused not of being antisemitic. We were accused of being communists and hippies and anarchists and wanting to destroy the university, none of which were true mostly. Now, the word "antisemitism" is being militated against the students in all kinds of ways. I have to say, the media is walking right into it with their eyes closed. You lead with antisemitism when you talk about the story.
Brian Lehrer: Wait. We lead with different things on different days. I would argue that what you're saying is undoubtedly true. There are those who are weaponizing antisemitism against the cause of the protestors, but the antisemitism that many people describe experiencing-- so many college students and stories from the parents of college students, that both things can be true, and we have to make an effort to separate out the real antisemitism and the threat to students from that and the weaponizing of it by others with political agenda.
Tom: Yes.
Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.
Tom: Yes, we must. I think that it's important to understand that there is an exquisite sensitivity among Jewish students who have been told throughout their entire religious lives that Israel and Judaism are exactly the same thing. The fact that somebody might burn an Israeli flag and has talked about in The Times today, that feels to a lot of people as anti-semitic, when, in fact, it's anti-Israel in terms of the policies that Israel has.
Brian Lehrer: Tom, I'm going to leave it there and get some other calls in, in our time. I really appreciate you checking in as a Columbia '68 demonstrator and raising those observations. Douglas in Dobbs Ferry, you're on WNYC. Hello, Douglas.
Douglas: Hi. Thanks, Brian. Boy, long-time listener, first-time caller. I love your show. I'm calling because I was at Yale in the early '70s when we were marching against the Vietnam War, but Bobby Seale was in New Haven and-- you got to fact-check me. In my mind, thinking about what's going on in Gaza now helps me see the global nature of this conflict.
In those days, in the early '70s, there was a lot going on with regard to the Vietnam War and after that investment in Angola. We were anti-government. We were anarchists. A lot of us were anarchists, and we acted that way. This seems like yet another governmental issue that is being conflated with human destiny. It has, I guess I'm learning, that same global significance.
Brian Lehrer: Douglas, thank you very much. Here's another Columbia '68 alum. Sherry in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hello, Sherry.
Sherry: Hi. Yes. I was there in '68 and we were protesting against the university's complicity in the war in Vietnam and the research that was being done to enable pilots to be more accurate in bombing villages in Vietnam. The protests today, which I find very heartening, is protesting Columbia's complicity in the genocide in Gaza. Both of them are about the ways in which the university is participating in atrocities that are colonial in nature. This whole notion of protecting Jewish students is incredibly hypocritical because the students that they were arresting and are-
Brian Lehrer: Suspending.
Sherry: -suspending include many Jewish students. There are tenths that say Jews against genocide.
Brian Lehrer: Can't both things be true? Do you just dismiss the stories that other Jewish students are telling of the antisemitism on campus and that that also needs to be taken seriously?
Sherry: Well, before I answer that, I have to say, I have to agree with the previous callers who have been talking about the conflation of antisemitism with protests against Israel. I also have to say that centering this issue of protecting Jewish students is a way of deflecting attention on the murder of Palestinians that is being perpetrated by Israel and is being protested by thousands and thousands of Jews.
Brian Lehrer: Of course, but people would push back and say that what you articulated is a conspiracy theory. That raising concerns about real antisemitism is a way of pushing the cause of what's going on in Gaza to the side. When they would argue, both things can be talked about.
Sherry: It's not a conspiracy theory, and I am in pain to hear the people speaking about experiences of Jewish students, but the centering on this-- I think the biggest impetus for antisemitism besides the Christian Zionists in the right, is what Israel is doing and saying it's doing in the name of Jews. I am a Jew.
Brian Lehrer: Sherry, thank you very much. That went very quickly. Thank you to those of you who called, who were protesting in 1968 at Columbia and elsewhere in that era. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. The Brian Lehrer Show is over for today. Back tomorrow. We will be preempted on Thursday for life coverage of the immunity hearing for Donald Trump at the Supreme Court that's coming up Thursday.
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