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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now we continue on New York City election-year series West Farms 10460. Today we'll talk about New York's perennial number one issue, affordable housing. If you haven't heard the earlier segments, we are having a series of conversations on this show about the neighborhood located between the Bronx River, Southern Boulevard, the Bronx Zoo, and the Cross Bronx expressway West Farms.

We're doing it for two reasons. One to tell the broader story through a focus on one neighborhood of a city reeling from the economic and health tolls of the coronavirus pandemic. Two, to use everyone's attention during the pandemic to spotlight the long history of disparity in this city that's never been fully reckoned with. Maybe this year's mayoral candidates will and by focusing on the people in one particular neighborhood and not just talking about it in the abstract, maybe that it will bring it home more home for more people all across New York City.

Of course, one of the most expensive cities to live in before the pandemic. So many were already pushed to the brink by rising rent. According to data released last year by the Association for Neighborhood and Housing Development, West Farms saw some of the highest rates of eviction citywide before the pandemic in 2019. In 2021, the economic toll of the pandemic and eviction moratorium set to expire in May, threatened tenants struggling to pay the rent today. Without substantive legislative action, New York City faces a looming eviction crisis.

We all know that, but to borrow a phrase from freshman congressmen and former city council member Ritchie Torres from this district, when New York City gets a cold, the Bronx gets the flu. In a neighborhood where more than 60% of residents spend more than 30% of their household income on rent and where nearly a third of all residents live below the poverty line, the consequences could be dire. To put all this into context, we're happy to be joined now by Barika Williams, Executive Director of the Association for Neighborhood Housing and Development, and Fernando Mancias Supervising Attorney in the housing unit for the Bronx at Legal Services, NYC. Barika and Fernando. Thanks so much for coming on with us on WNYC today.

Fernando Mancias: Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me.

Barika Williams: Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me. Good morning

Brian: Listeners, particularly listeners from the ZIP code 10460, we want to invite your calls on the topics that we just laid out. Do you have questions or concerns about housing in or around West Farms in the Bronx? If you're a tenant or tenant leader or organizer who lives or works in the area we want to hear from you.

If you're a small landlord in the area we want to hear from you. Tell us what your organizing efforts, if you were an organizer have looked like during the pandemic, describe your own housing situation or ask any question you want of our two guests, 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280 or tweet a question @BrianLehrer. Barika. Can you take us back just immediately pre-pandemic and describe how much of an eviction crisis there already was in around West Farms 10460.

Barika: Absolutely. I think some of the data that you gave beforehand is important context for your listeners are around 10460 is. It's almost 80% people of color in this ZIP code. The median income is what we refer to as 29% AMI, Area Median Income. What that means is on average a household, not an individual, a household is around $29,000 a year in annual income.

Prior to COVID, this ZIP code had one of the highest rates of evictions in the city. That's all pre-COVID. Also, top 10 for increases in residential sales prices per square foot. We're seeing huge escalations in the price of a square foot of property that is happening in this ZIP code prior to anything around COVID.

Brian: What has COVID done? How has COVID exacerbated it or has it not yet because of the eviction moratorium?

Barika: I wouldn't say not yet. While we're sitting on the brink of this eviction tsunami consistently and constantly, the ZIP code has a higher rate of eviction filings during COVID than any other place outside of the Bronx, except for Corona Queens. I think that very much speaks to now Congressman Ritchie Torres's framing of it. Is that within the Bronx, the entire borough is incredibly high in terms of evictions during COVID.

Then, this specific ZIP code is higher than pretty much the rest of the entirety of New York City. This is from some of the information that ANHD has done with both Housing Data Coalition and Right to Counsel, really trying to keep track and keep an eye on this pending and looming threats that we know is coming.

Brian: Fernando, for you as the Supervising Attorney in the housing unit for the Bronx at Legal Services NYC is the potential eviction tsunami as Barika just called it, something that you're already dealing with, something that you're gearing up for, something that you're asking the candidates running for mayor this year to address particularly with respect to your borough?

Fernando: Absolutely. I think Barika did such a great job of highlighting how our tenants in the Bronx and how our clients are disproportionately affected by this. I also think it's also important to keep in mind that these are also New Yorkers that were disproportionately affected by COVID. What has already been an already very unaffordable neighborhood before the pandemic only means that Bronx residents are now going to be priced out even more so during the pandemic, especially because there is higher unemployment rates here.

Our organization is doing the best that we can to ensure that tenants currently are submitting the paperwork that they need to be able to put their eviction on hold and to ensure at least for now that they can remain safely in their homes until May 1st. We understand that at this point that it's only kicking the can down the road. We understand that there needs to be larger protections for tenants past May 1st.

Brian: The eviction moratorium is at the state level. Is there something that the current mayor or the next mayor can do along these lines? Is there a particular question I should ask the candidates as they continue to come on this show?

Fernando: What is also important to keep in mind is that the city economy is obviously taken a huge hit during the pandemic. I think that our city and our state won't be able to do it on our own and our tenants and our clients would benefit significantly from federal assistance. There needs to be conversations at the city, state, and federal levels to ensure that there is funding to protect tenants and to keep them in their homes and to address the significant amount of arrears that are accumulating for low-income families in the Bronx.

Brian: Barika, same question. Is it enough for the mayor or a mayoral candidate to say, "Well, this is really a state-level policy question or a federal-level policy question and my hands are tied"?

Barika: I'd say no. A lot of our eviction protections right now in the midst of COVID have been coming at the state level or at the federal level, but there are options and abilities within the new administration or even the current mayor's ability and authority. I think the real question to put to candidates and what we're really looking for is as we're moving forward in recovery, who are we prioritizing and who are we making sure gets back to a place of being on their feet.

Being sustainable, not having to question whether or not they can make rent the next month, or whether or not they're going to be evicted at the end of the month? That is something that is a policy and also budget priority that we as a city, in addition to state and federal interventions could be making

Brian: Fernando some tenants, I gather may be reluctant to go seek the protection of the eviction moratorium because under it they would still be accumulating debt that they would owe in the form of back rent at some point in the future, the eviction moratorium is not rent forgiveness it's just a delay in paying that rent you owe today if you're in financial hardship.

Is that a situation you've encountered in your work as a housing attorney and is that dissuading people from actually taking advantage of that form of protection?

Fernando: I think it's certainly a concern that's been raised among our clients. I think right now in the middle of a pandemic, we want to ensure that tenants remain in their home. Delaying an eviction, delaying a court proceeding until at least May 1st, allows people to stay in their homes. We're asking tenants and we're doing the best that we can now to advocate with city agencies or to apply for rental assistance programs, either through the city or through the state level to ensure that we can begin to help tenants reduce those arrears now if they are eligible for rental assistance programs.

The nonprofit news site, The City reported last week that although the eviction moratorium is meant to protect tenants, some renters have to actually be sued for eviction, before they can get rental assistance. Barika, is that your understanding?

Barika: I would leave that to Fernando who's the lawyer to answer that technical question. I will say that one of the challenges is that we have different layers of an eviction moratorium that has been in place both at the city level and at the federal level and that have changed and shifted as we've gone through a now approaching a yearlong pandemic.

What it is covered, who is covered, what they have to do, has changed over time. It is true at this moment that folks need to assert their protections. People need to be filling out some sort of form in order to be covered and have those protections. I think it's an important piece to not just know where we are right now, but to consistently keep track of because the rules around what you need to do to qualify and what it takes have consistently changed.

Brian: Fernando, you want to pick up on that as the lawyer in the room?

Fernando: Sure. We encourage tenants to apply for rental assistance if they're falling behind in arrears if they can get a rental breakdown from their landlord. Everything has moved remotely for human resources administration, what's frequently known as public assistance. If tenants can obtain a breakdown then we encourage them to apply for rental assistance online, obviously, that program will prioritize cases where there is an actual threat of eviction. Then, of course, there was the state program that was also providing rental assistance for families who had an income deficit.

Brian: Let's take a phone call. Paul, from the Bronx. Barika, did you want to add one thing before we go to the phones?

Barika: Yes, if I could just jump in with one thing I think it's important for your listeners. At the end of December, the federal government authorized what will be $1.3 billion in rental relief and assistance that will go to New York State, spread across the state. It's important that everybody, especially those who have become unemployed, who are extremely low income, stay tuned and keep an eye out over the next few weeks to a month because the program for the city and state will be rolling out sometime between now and the end of March.

Brian: 646-435-7280. Paul in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Paul: Yes, I'm listening to the conversation. I'm a small landlord in the Bronx, I own 24 units. No one talks about the owners of these buildings that have these obligations to pay mortgages, water, and sewer, real estate taxes, insurance, heating, repairs on the buildings. There's no compassion for the owners who basically supply the revenue for the budget of New York City to operate. Why is it always 100% tenants, tenants, tenants, and there's no concern for the people that are paying the bills to operate New York City.

Brian: Well, Paul, stay on there for a second. We're always trying to include landlords in these housing conversations. Is there some of your story for the--

Paul: Yes, but I haven't heard any conversation.

Brian: Paul, I'm going to ask you right now, is there any part of your story that you would like to tell from your own experience with the 24 units that you own of tenants not able to pay their rent during the pandemic and how that's affecting your ability to pay your bills? Do you want to personalize this at all?

Paul: Yes, at my 24 units I have about six tenants who have just stopped paying their rent for whatever reason. I don't know if they're unemployed. I tried to communicate with them. They have a very laissez-faire kind of attitude because of all the commentary of protecting the tenants. They really have no incentive to go and get the rent when everyone keeps saying to them that, "You have this moratorium. Don't worry about being evicted. Don't worry about paying your rent right now. We'll deal with it at a later date." There's no urgency for the tenants to pay the rent.

Brian: Some of the activists say what they want is rent, not just the eviction moratorium for the moment, but rent forgiveness, but along with that mortgage forgiveness for people like you and put it on the banks. Do you like that idea?

Paul: Yes, I would encourage anything. There is zero, zero conversation about helping the people that fund the city budget, zero. I I think it's so unfair from the mayor all the way to the governor, to legal aid, to everyone. There's zero conversation about the landlord and the landlord is always the bad guy. I am a good landlord, I provide services as best as I can in New York City. Not all landlords are bad. They grow the net out. It's a stereotype that needs to be changed. It's systemic just like everything else we talk about as systemic, racism, poverty. Landlords being bad is a systemic way of thinking in New York City, and it needs to be changed.

Brian: Paul, we really appreciate your call, and we invite you to call us again. Barika Williams, what were you thinking as you listen to Paul?

Barika: I wouldn't necessarily say that the framing of landlords is parallel to systemic racism. ANHD does represent both tenant organizing, and small business organizing groups as well as developers and landlords. Our members represent both sides of that conversation and equation. We have consistently been in conversation and trying to assist and aid and talk about what are the policy solutions for buildings that at various different moments in time. We're seeing tenants who are unable to pay upwards of potentially 20% of their building’s total revenues.

What we don't want is the situation where we're demanding tenants to pay who cannot. People have lost their jobs or underemployed have lost loved ones that were part of their household income. What we don't want is to transition a eviction tsunami into a homelessness tsunami. Where things are right now, and I'd encourage Paul to keep an eye on this is that federal aid that I was talking about before is designated to cover rent arrears for renters and to go to landlords. Ultimately, that's supposed to help address and recoup some of those six renters that he mentioned who have been unable to pay their rent.

It's only for people who make below 80% of the area median income with preference for folks who make below 50% of area median income or where somebody's been unemployed. The federal government has targeted this at our most vulnerable rental households, but with the understanding of ultimately covering the rent arrears, getting that money to the landlords, and continuing to allow the building to run in good operations and for people to be in their homes.

Brian: Joe in Manhattan who grew up in West Palm. Joe, you’re on WNYC. Thank you for calling.

Joe: Hi, Brian. I love your program. It's a great neighborhood, and it seems like the wonderful opportunity now, Cuomo being former HUD head, for Joe Biden and Cuomo to find some way for HUD to help the neighborhood. Cuomo, it'll make him a hero, and it'll make Joe Biden FDR, dealing with the poverty and dealing with the hardship. I grew up-- It's right by the Bronx Zoo. It's right by Parkchester, there's great transportation. I watched him build the Bronx River Parkway as a kid, it was a wonderful neighborhood I grew up. It was Jewish, Italian, Irish. It's still a lot of good housing there. It's an opportunity for Biden and Cuomo and people to let HUD do something other than financing Mitchell-Lama and the public housing.

Brian: I'm going to leave it there for time. Joe, thank you for all that. Some deep history. Fernando, I wonder what you were thinking as you listened to Joe particularly with respect to the opportunity that Joe Biden has to be an FDR and maybe in conjunction with Governor Cuomo who obviously couldn't get a sympathetic hearing in the Trump administration with respect to housing in the Bronx.

Fernando: I was also thinking West Farms is a fantastic neighborhood and I do agree. I do think our tenants and the tenants in the Bronx would benefit from meaningful conversation between the Cuomo administration and the Biden administration to secure the funds necessary. As Barika mentioned earlier, there has been some federal aid approved and we certainly know that that will assist many families. Paul, earlier who was a landlord. We'll also help Paul. I think those conversations need to continue and negotiations would be helpful for tenants in the Bronx to secure more funding to help with rental arrears

Brian: Was gentrification, Barika, a problem in West Farms before the pandemic? We're talking about it mostly in terms of the poverty and the difficulty of low-income people paying their rent in West Farms 10460 at the moment. Was there also something going on that was putting pressure on the affordable housing stock in that neighborhood like in so many other neighborhoods before the pandemic gentrification?

Barika: Yes. I think this ties back to some of what we were talking about in the initial conversation of when we see these large and very rapid escalations in price per square foot in a neighborhood, that's often a sign and an indicator of both gentrification. I would also combine with around predatory equity. I think it's important for us to note that that's not just a concern pre-COVID but also a concern in this moment and post-COVID. We know from history and historically what happens is in a recession we have-- Not necessarily Paul, but we have some bad actor investors and landlords who like to come in, purchase entire buildings overleverage the building, and systematically evict tenants.

It's a concern that we don't end up in a place where we create the opportunity for another set of those actors to sweep into this neighborhood and do another round of de-stabilizing this housing stock which is why it's important for us to shore up and support both the tenants and the landlords who are being good actors and who were trying to weather through this pandemic and this storm to make sure that we keep those folks in the neighborhood operating the housing and living in these units as opposed to potentially bringing in people who are not invested and don't believe in this neighborhood and in this community

Brian: Barika Williams is Executive Director of the Association for Neighborhood Housing and Development. Fernando Macias is Supervising Attorney in the housing unit for the Bronx at Legal Services NYC. That is our West Farms 10460 segment for this week. Next week we'll talk about one of the biggest tenants in the neighborhood The Cross Bronx Expressway. Fernando and Barika. Thank you very much for being on today.

Fernando: Thank you. Have a great day.

Barika: Thanks, Brian.

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