Watching 'The Sopranos' as an Italian-American From New Jersey

Actors Vincent Pastore, left, and Tony Sirico, who both play members of mob boss Tony Soprano's crew in the HBO show "The Sopranos," pose before a panel discussion on Monday, July 17, 2000.
( (AP Photo/Chris Pizzello) )

Summary Transcript

[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC and we'll wrap up today for our last 12 minutes or so with a call-in for a different ethnic group and I'll tell you why in a minute, Italian-Americans. Why? Because this is the occasion of the 25th, not today exactly but it's right around now, is the 25th anniversary of the premier of The Sopranos. What we want to do is invite Italian-Americans, especially from New Jersey to reflect on and call in about the portrayal of Italian-Americans in The Sopranos.

Again, 25 years ago almost right now, how has this held up for you? Are you proud of The Sopranos? Do you feel defamed, some people have used that word, by the portrayal of some of the Italian-Americans in that show? Has it worn well over 25 years? If you are a New Jersey Italian-American especially, but any other Italian-American, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

It wasn't just the crime drama. I don't have to tell you about The Sopranos. There was humor, a small number of people were not impressed. Shortly after the series premiered in 1999, Dominic Amorosa of the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations told the Daily News, The Sopranos is ethnic defamation. Frank Guarini, chairman of the National Italian-American Foundation, “The Sopranos is a terrible stereotyping and unfair portrayal of Italian-American families.” Guarini’s and other organizations also took issue with the violence associated with them on display.

212-433-WNYC if you are a New Jersey Italian-American, especially if you watched The Sopranos. Has it worn well? Are we in a different era now than we were a quarter century ago about sensitivities to portrayals of people in certain ethnic groups that seem to stereotype those ethnic groups and how that pertains to you? It's probably worth mentioning that if you're a football Giants fan, Tommy DeVito, just now this fall famously walked onto the field to The Sopranos theme music. This unknown quarterback, when the main quarterback went down, this New Jersey Italian-American, Tommy DeVito came on and became a cultural heartthrob, I guess we could say.

Yes, he chose his walk-on music to The Sopranos theme so it's brought forward into the present that way and with the 25th anniversary. Has it worn well for you? What do you want to say about The Sopranos today if you are a New Jersey Italian-American or another Italian American? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text and we'll take your calls right after this.

By the way, I was talking about some of the accusations against the show and that's not all there was in the media obviously by Italian Americans over the years. I'll mention one thing that came out in 2017 from Vice writer, Davide Mastracci, who made other points in the other direction. He said, “The Sopranos is certainly seasoned with violence but it's primarily concerned with depicting the state of modern America through an Italian-American lens.” That's another way to look at it. Carmen in Port Washington, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carmen.

Carmen: Hi. Thank you for having me. I think the show has aged very well. I think it is an allegory for postmodern American life. As an Italian-American, it definitely hits on certain things that are very identifiable with that specific population. Much like The Godfather, I think it transcends that population and I think it was brilliant. I think David Chase, I would want to see more of his work and I think the ending was perfect.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, David Chase, it was his drama. Louisa in Cherry Hill, you're on WNYC. Hi, Louisa.

Louisa: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to share that when I was growing up, my father, he had Italian or has Italian on both of his sides. He encouraged me to not watch The Sopranos because of its portrayal of Italian-Americans. To this day, neither he nor I have watched the series. I know it's supposed to be great but I haven't really been able to shake that so.

Brian Lehrer: That's how it played in your household. I think we have a cast member calling in Gerry in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Gerry.

Gerry: Hi, good morning. I'm called because I actually was on the show for the last couple of seasons. I was Patty Leotardo, Phil Leotardo’s wife. Phil was the guy with the very, very white hair. One thing that David Chase did in that final scene, one of the final scenes where Phil killed Vito, which actually was on last night, I can't believe I got into it. Phil Leotardo came out of a closet and killed Vito who was a homosexual. I just thought I don't know if anybody really grabbed that idea. I don't really know if that was the real idea.

I have members of my family who will not watch it, and never watched, it very anti. My way of dealing with it when I was working with the people was that there was enormous camaraderie. It was the most positive set I had ever been on in my life. Everybody seemed to be very happy for the most part, whether or not they realized that they were creating a saga really when you look at it. I don't know if all Italians appreciated that.

I don't think that that kind of brutality that existed in that family, it was in any way visible in any of my family members, but I appreciated the attempt and I think that it was so beautifully filmed. If you notice, there was a kind of graininess to all of the-

Brian Lehrer: Oh, yes.

Gerry: -episodes. It wasn’t like bright Technicolor. Yes, it was true art.

Brian Lehrer: In your experience on the show, was there explicit discussion of sensitivities to not stereotyping people while still telling the story in an aggressive way?

Gerry: I can't say that I ever heard that, nor did I participate in that kind of discussion. I think that most people felt very proud of the work that they were doing creating this picture, this epic television show, which was really loved by millions of Americans and beyond America. I was in Costa Rica at one point with my husband vacationing and this young man found out I was on The Sopranos and he had--

Brian Lehrer: And they were watching The Sopranos in Costa Rica?

Gerry: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Gerry, thank you so much for calling in. I really appreciate your sharing your experience. Maria in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Maria.

Maria: Hi. As I told your screener I live in New York but have lots of New Jersey Italian-American family members. I did not watch the show on purpose. I boycotted it. Maybe I saw a few episodes and they were so violent. I was upset that of all the qualities Italian-American families have, that this was up front and center for the world to experience and it was such a minute part of the Italian-American family experience. That was my issue with it.

Brian Lehrer: And you boycotted the show at the time. Thank you. One more. Carl in Nassau County, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carl.

Carl: Hi. How are you Brian, I love your show.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Carl: I want to say, and thank you for the opportunity, I want to say that as an Italian-American but also as a Greek-American, more specifically, a Greek-Italian-American because my great-grandfather's name was Themistocles, but on my mother's side we're from Ireland. I'm with George Carlin. You have to accept that as human beings and members of the human family, we are born into our ethnicities and our religions unless we make a change by accident.

I think we also have to look at art and honor the artist. The artist's dedication is to his message, it's to what he has to say. If we look at it with compassion the way we would look at a Scorsese film, we can look at The Sopranos as a masterpiece of humanity. Of course, there's violence in it, which I don't particularly like and personally, I don't watch mafia movies anymore. I'm at that age where I don't want certain things in my head, but I would never say, "Take this down." I would never criticize a work of art completely until I understand the message of the director, the art--

Brian Lehrer: Carl, I'm going to have to leave it there because we're out of time. I did not think we were going to end this segment with the philosopher George Carlin being invoked but there you go. Thanks for all your calls on that. Thanks for all your calls on everything today. Brian Lehrer on WNYC, stay tuned for Alison.

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