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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Have you made an appointment yet for you, or your parent, or your grandparent to get vaccinated, or are you struggling to find an open slot or to navigate how to make an appointment? This week, many more people became eligible to get vaccinated in New York and New Jersey after the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, updated their guidance to say anyone over 65 and anyone who is immunocompromised should be able to get the vaccine now. On Tuesday, Governor Cuomo urged patients, he says, not everyone in qualified groups will be able to get a dose right away.

Cuomo: 7 million eligible people, 300,000 dosages per week, and 7 million people who desperately want the vaccine quickly.

Brian: The governor estimates, it will take three months for all people currently eligible to get vaccinated. In order to speed things up, New Jersey is using the honor system when it comes to providing proof of eligibility. Health Commissioner Judy Persichilli says vaccination sites will not be asking for any proof.

Judy Persichilli: No documentation of the medical condition or your age will be required.

Brian: Not so in New York where people are required to show proof of age and other qualifying factors. That extra step though is adding another layer of bureaucracy to an already confusing system. There have also been reports of website crashes and overwhelmed appointment hotline, lost confirmation codes, and other snafus that, unfortunately, we've come to expect with government-run websites. It's especially frustrating, of course, in this urgent life or death moment.

Here, with me to give you the best information we can about vaccine eligibility in our area and how to sign up are Fred Mogul, healthcare and medicine reporter here at WNYC, and Karen Yi, WNYC reporter covering New Jersey. Hi, Karen, hi, Fred.

Karen Yi: Hi, Brian.

Fred Mogul: Hi there, Brian.

Brian: Listeners, our lines are open for your vaccine availability and sign up questions. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. First, anything to add to the list of people who are now eligible from what I said briefly in the introduction because things are changing so quickly. Karen, do you want to start with who is now eligible in New Jersey as of today to make an appointment to get vaccinated? If you have anything to add.

Karen: Yes. I think the most interesting group of people who are now eligible are smokers. The Health Department estimates that there are two million smokers in the state of New Jersey. They did open it up to people, 16 to 64, with medical conditions. It's pretty broad the conditions that qualify, cancer, chronic kidney disease, obesity, sickle cell disease, diabetes, and obviously smoking. The other thing too I'll mention is that New Jersey before this was only really vaccinating the 1A category, which is generally healthcare workers. In terms of essential workers in the 1B category had only opened it up to police and fire.

At this moment, teachers, transit workers, other essential workers are still not eligible unless they qualify for their age or for medical conditions.

Brian: In the clip we played of the health commissioner, it sounds like New Jersey is not asking people for proof of either age or medical condition, but are you saying with the smoking that in theory somebody who's 20 years old and is a smoker-- Smoking is a risk factor. It's not a disease. It's a risk factor for disease. I think that's accurate to say, but a 20-year-old who wants to get vaccinated can say, "Well, I'm a smoker," and walk in?

Karen: Yes. In theory, I think that's the concern, how is this going to actually play out? The honor system is happening because it's going to cut down on the administrative things that have to happen when you show up to the appointment. There is some screening that happens when you sign up for an appointment. When you register on the state website, they'll ask you for your date of birth, they'll ask you what type of work you do, and they'll ask you if you have certain conditions, but you're right, I think there's ways to get around that if there's no proof that you need to show up when you go to the door, and how do you prove really that you're a smoker?

Brian: By the way, does vaping count as smoking or not?

Karen: Unclear. I'm not sure. I would say no, but who knows? That's another big question to be answered.

Brian: Fred Mogul, what about in New York? What would you add to the New York list of eligibility criteria at this point?

Fred: It's pretty different in an awful lot of ways. Number one, we're very TBD at the moment on medical conditions, but Cuomo's office has said they're working out exactly what will be on the list of pre-existing conditions, underlying chronic health problems. We expect it to emerge soon, but it hasn't emerged yet. In terms of verification, we are not exactly on the honor system, but I wouldn't say it's airtight either. People do have to put in their workplace, they have to put in an HR phone number, one person I talked to said. Now, it was deeply unlikely that anyone on the other side of that computer system called that number and verify that he was an employee.

On the state website, it says you need to bring proof of employment. If you're a former employee of a place, I suppose you could bring that. Another interesting wrinkle is that while some of these essential jobs, and we have a mostly similar list in New York to New Jersey, teachers, and public safety people, transit workers, but on our list, and I'd be curious if this is on New Jersey's, because I haven't checked, public transit includes anyone who works for airlines and subways and buses and so on, but it doesn't specify that they have to interact with the public.

The MTA employs 75,000 people, the Port Authority employs 7,000 people. If you work in the back office, if you are an executive, you are nowhere near a subway platform or the driver's seat in a bus, you still apparently are eligible.

Brian: One thing I'm seeing, confirm this for me if I have this right, grocery store workers in the store are now eligible on the basis of that job description, but not delivery people?

Fred: Delivery people are not listed. Grocery does actually have the stipulation. It says public-facing. College instructors have the stipulation. In-person college instruction, but these other office workers do not, and delivery workers, be they food delivery, be they UPS, or postal carriers for that matter, I do not believe are specified unless they're between the lines.

Brian: Another controversy, I see teachers are now eligible for vaccination in New York State, but remote teachers are eligible even as in-person teachers are eligible, and some people don't like that?

Karen: That New York's honor system program among teachers. The mayor and the school's chancellor asked the totally in remote teachers to hold off and take a back seat and let the in-person teachers go first, but it's on the honor system.

Brian: Gina in Great Neck, you're on WNYC. Hi, Gina.

Gina: Hi. Good to speak to you. I live in Great Neck. I have been on the Nassau County websites and everything seems to be down. What do I do?

Brian: What does down look like? What are you doing and what are you getting?

Gina: I have to go back to my computer. I'm getting either a message that says "site failed", or I'm getting another message "looks like the site is down."

Brian: Fred, can you help Gina?

Fred: I can. I can try. One thing, I should say it's funny she called from Great Neck, Gina, because the other day at Mount Sinai Beth Israel on the east side, I spoke with a Great Neck high school teacher who had driven all the way in. Part of the big issue here is that the state and the city have their own websites. The city isn't really an issue in Nassau County, but they're not really sign-up. They direct you to places where you can get it, and some of those places are public. They're operated by the city or perhaps by Nassau County, but they could also be hospitals or clinics.

You just have to go around and call and call and call. I hate to say it like the way many of us did. For airlines, before they were all consolidated on a single website, you would call Delta and American and United and get the cheapest fare. This seems to be somewhat what people have to do, at least, for the time being. You have to call around and see who has it. The woman I spoke with from Great Neck said she had done that and couldn't find anyone in Nassau or Suffolk County and that's how she came to drive into Manhattan.

Brian: If we wanted to, we could take call after call after call after call like that from all over New York State. Is the same thing happening in New Jersey, Karen?

Karen: The state has a website where you can preregister for the vaccine, and about 1.2 million people have registered, but that's similar. It just tells you, "We'll let you know when you're eligible. We'll send you an email. We'll send you a notice when you're eligible. Then we'll direct you to a page where you can find the locations that are nearest to you." There is supposed to be some centralized place to make appointments, but there's 200-plus sites in New Jersey to get vaccinated. A lot of those sites aren't connected to the main state system. It's similar, you have to call and call and call, go online, register for different counties portals to make appointments.

Then the other issue is, there's just no more appointments, because places are only scheduling appointments for the vaccine doses that they have, and they don't have enough to really schedule past the end of January. Now we're running into the problem where everyone's coming back for their second dose. You have second dose and now you have 4.4-plus million people that are not eligible in the State of New Jersey. Supply is going to be a huge issue before we even get to the logistics of scheduling and systems talking to each other.

Brian: Paul in Brielle, New Jersey, you are on WNYC. Hi, Paul.

Paul: Hey there. My question is, I registered on January the 6th on the New Jersey website and I didn't receive back, which I thought I would have done by now, the phase that I'm in. I think I'm in a relatively high phase. I'm 66 years old, I'm immunocompromised. I go to chemotherapy every other week, and it appears to be a catch 22. I don't know on what phase I'm in and there appears to be no mechanism to find that out. I can't reregister because it blanks me out on the website, and I just feel like I'm sailing around in the ether somewhere. I don't know how to overcome that problem. I don't know whether the guys there can help me out with that.

Brian: Karen, can you help Paul?

Karen: Yes. Hi, Paul. You're 66 so now you are eligible for the vaccine, because that's what the state changed yesterday. Anyone over 65 is eligible, and you're also eligible for what sounds like underlying medical conditions. We have had some glitches with the website where folks aren't being told what category, what phase they're in, or being miscategorized. The state said they were going to notify everyone who is now newly eligible, for example, yourself, Paul, and that appears to not have happened yet. I will say that you are eligible. I don't know what county you're in, but you can start looking up appointments if you find one, but you should be able to get it.

Brian: All right. I hope that's helpful, Paul. Thank you very much. We're talking about the best ways to try to sign up for vaccines if you're eligible in New York and New Jersey with Fred Mogul, who's covering it in New York, and Karen Yi, who's covering it for us in New Jersey. Fred, can you talk about the proof of eligibility that New Yorkers are expected to provide? Is that contributing to some of the frustration here? I mean, it's easy enough to prove your age, but what about proving your immunocompromised status? What does that look like?

Fred: Well, I think that's part of the TBD element I was discussing before. First, they have to come up with a list of XYZ conditions. Then they have to talk about how they'll verify it, although they too might use the honor system or come up with a different euphemism for the honor system. That's on the underlying conditions part. On the employment part, as I said, in theory, they're asking for proof of employment, but when I was at Mount Sinai Beth Israel the other day, no one asked. They asked where they worked, at least some of the people, and not the main people actually I was with, but we overheard them asking other people.

Brian: For the people who qualified based on job description, job category.

Fred: Right, but they weren't required to show proof. That could well be different at other places. It's very fractured. There's a city place run, a state-run place, and all these private places, and it can be a little different at each one.

Brian: If your qualifying factor is a medical condition, not yet announced?

Fred: Yes, not yet.

Brian: Mayor de Blasio cautioned this week that the city is already running out of vaccines. Here's that.

Mayor de Blasio: We will run out of vaccine at some point next week unless we get a major new resupply, because so many New Yorkers want the vaccine and we have the ability to give it to them.

Brian: Is there any information, Fred, I'll stay with you for this since it's New York specific, on when this next massive shipment might arrive?

Fred: Not that I know of. That sounds like it's in the works, but I would say at the moment, I'm looking at the city dashboard, and there's about 800,000 doses that have been delivered to hospitals and clinics and so forth, and only 300,000 that have found their way into people's arms for their first or second shot. We still have hundreds of thousands to go to use up the supply we have, that's sitting in freezers and refrigerators all around the city.

Brian: Karen, similar in New Jersey?

Karen: Yes. New Jersey, according to the CDC has received 600,000 doses, administrated almost 300,000. A little less than half have been used. We've been getting, I want to say about 100,000 doses a week. The state hasn't given projections on how many more are coming, but the governor yesterday was hopeful that with the Biden administration and the outgoing Trump administration agreeing to release all of these doses that that won't be a problem. Again, that's to be determined how that's going to happen, because there's a lot more people who are eligible now.

Brian: Michelle in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Michelle.

Michelle: Hi. I had a question about eligibility for childcare workers. I'm a nanny and so I didn't know that versus teachers and what's the proof of job statuses with that. Also, if there's a difference based on where you work versus where you live, because I live in New York, but I work in New Jersey?

Fred: I can try that. I think there's some flexibility in where you live versus where you get vaccinated. About one in four of the people vaccinated in New York City come from outside the city, overwhelmingly from the New York suburbs. Some actually are coming in from New Jersey, so that seems to be the case in New York City, at least for the time being, that regardless of where you live or work, you can get it here. I don't know if that's true in New Jersey.

In terms of being a childcare provider, you should look into the state page, but I have it booted up and it says, "Licensed, registered, approved or legally exempt group childcare providers." I'm not sure exactly what that means. Given your status as a childcare provider, you could try to call your state line and try to flesh that out.

Brian: What was that language? [crosstalk] Go ahead, Karen. Karen, go ahead.

Karen: Also, you are eligible to get vaccinated in New Jersey. Anyone who lives works or studies in New Jersey is eligible. In theory, you can go to any county, so I don't know what county you work in, but you should be able to sign up in another county if there's nothing available in your county.

Brian: What was that language, Fred, again, that seem to include or not include childcare workers? I couldn't really tell.

Fred: Sure. Licensed, registered, approved, or legally exempt group childcare providers. I'm not sure what that last category "legally exempt group child care providers" refers to.

Brian: I've heard on our show from callers and seen on Twitter, and I may or may not be involved with this myself, that lots of people are now trying to help their older parents make appointment. Is it possible to make a vaccine appointment for someone else? I certainly did not get a clear answer to that question. What information should people have on hand, date of birth, address, Social Security number, whatever, before endeavoring to do this on behalf of an older parent? Fred in New York.

Fred: I'm hearing the same reports that you are from everyone I know, frankly. I'm in that generation that has a lot of elderly parents, and they're all busy securing appointments for these elderly parents. Which information specifically? I think the basics like your Social Security number, more importantly, probably your Medicare number. People 65 and older are generally on Medicare, they're eligible for Medicare. If you're younger, and you're in that immunocompromised category, whatever insurance information you have.

Now, in theory, you should not be charged, it should be free, and people without insurance should be eligible, but nonetheless, if you have that information, it'd be helpful to have it on standby.

Brian: Karen in New Jersey?

Karen: Yes. I'll say that I was helping my mother-in-law register, and I won't give her age out. It's similar. It's a date of birth. They ask you basically if you have these conditions and give out a long list so you're not even specifying which condition you have. They ask you do you do any of these jobs. I didn't see anything for Social Security number, because I think that might get into the question of undocumented, documented immigrants.

They did ask what kind of insurance you have, private carrier, Medicaid, Medicare, but again, I just was helping her register. We're not even at the stage where she's making an appointment because she wasn't eligible to make an appointment up until now. I think we'll start seeing more of those glitches to come as more people start trying to make appointments.

Brian: Lorraine in Bergen County, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lorraine.

Lorraine: Hi. I was wondering if there's a phone number where we can register by phone. I'm 75. They keep telling me that I need to go to a computer. I don't have a computer. It just seems to me ridiculous that they're opening the parameters of the number of people who can get these vaccinations without making sure that older people already, or the 1A and 1B people can be vaccinated.

Brian: Karen, do you have that phone number for New Jersey? I have the one for New York. I'll give it out in a second.

Karen: I don't have the phone number for New Jersey. I believe the state was in the process of setting that up. I don't see one on their website. Since there's so many sites that you can call-- there's multiple phone numbers for different sites in each county. I have those numbers. Those are on our website, but you need a computer. There's not that I'm seeing right now a centralized state number.

Brian: You think there is the opportunity to do this on the phone, not just on the computer, as Lorraine would prefer to do and as other older people might prefer to do, but that those numbers exists but that they're likely county by county?

Karen: Right. There's a list on the state website that gives you a name, an address and a phone number and a website for each of the publicly available sites. There are numbers there.

Brian: For New York State, it's 833-NYS-4-VAX. Area code 833, NYS, like New York State, number 4, VAX. 833-NYS-4-VAX in New York State. 30 seconds left.

Fred: I would say, Brian, though, that people could also potentially do what I suggested earlier and just call around to their local doctor's office, their local hospital. Really, it's a little cumbersome and it's à la carte, but you might have shorter wait times online. Even if you don't get the answer immediately that you're looking for, hopefully, someone at XYZ hospital or Medicaid clinic could refer you.

Brian: Good tip. Real quick, anybody talking about bringing vaccines to homebound elderly? Is that a thing in New Jersey, Karen? Five seconds.

Karen: They haven't talked about that, but they are doing the partnership where they're going into long-term care facilities, so that's also another TBD.

Brian: Fred, five seconds.

Fred: Very similar. I think it's on the docket, but it hasn't been solved yet.

Brian: They should do that. WYNC. Fred Mogul and Karen Yi, thank you so much.

Fred: Always a pleasure.

Karen: Thank you, Brian.

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