Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For our last 15 minutes today, our usual lived experience call in. We're going to ask you, if you're not going back to your office full time or not going back at all, tell us the reason or reasons. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 or tweet @brianlehrer. If you're not going back to your office full time or not going back even at all, hybrid, tell us your reasons. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

The news hook for this is that the partnership for New York City group that represents major corporations in New York found that 9% of Manhattan office workers, only 9% are reporting to their offices five days a week, only 12% are in four days a week, 37% are in three days a week, 15% are in two days a week, 11% are in one day a week. 16% of office workers in the sectors that they surveyed are not back at all. That was real estate, financial service, media, tech, and law firms. In those sectors, those are the stats.

The partnership asked employers, they represent employers, to cite the primary reasons for their employees' hesitancy about returning to the office. It's probably noteworthy that this survey did not directly ask the workers themselves, but seemingly relied on responses given from employers and what they believe about their employees, but here are the results. Are you ready?

The most common reasons for not wanting to return to the office are productivity working from home equals or surpasses the office. 36% said that was their employee's primary reasons. Productivity is better. Public transit is not safe or reliable. That was the next one at 24%. I'm interested in diving down on that public transit number in this call in. If public transit is your reason or one of your reasons for not wanting to return to the office, what is it about public transit? Is it COVID risk? Is it crime risk? Is it something else?

Productivity, public transit, then 20% of people said other companies are not back in the office or other colleagues are not back in the office. Then just a desire for additional flexibility, work-life balance. 6% of people not returning to the office full time said that. Length of commute, 3%. 9% of companies cited a combination of the above factors, and get this, only 1% of the 160 employers surveyed said either fear of COVID or childcare responsibilities were the primary reasons employees felt negatively about returning to the office, which the partnership for New York City, again, they represent the major employers, says is a significant shift in sentiment from their previous surveys.

Listeners, does this sound like you, or in your case, if you are able to listen at this time of day at all because you're working from home, why don't you want to return to the office full time? Is it for any of the reasons listed? Do you think they're vastly underrating the role that fear of getting COVID on mass transit or at work plays in your hesitancy to return? What is it for you? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Pretty simple question. Let's hear your answers.

Let's do an informal, unofficial, thoroughly unscientific survey of those of you listening right now as you're working from home or in a break from working from home why don't you want to return to the office full time? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, as full-time office work remains so low among people who have any option. Give us a call. We'll take a call right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now to your calls on if you have the option of not returning to your office full time, if you worked in an office before COVID, why is it for you that you are not? Kristen in Ridgewood, you're on WNYC. Hi, Kristen.

Kristen: Hi. Oh my God, first time, long time. So excited. I love you. I was telling the screener that I don't even see how I could, just given childcare options. I have kids in preschool and first grade and there's no aftercare anymore for pre-K where there used to be. I have to be here just to get her and transfer her to a daycare for the last few hours of my workday. It's just madness trying to [unintelligible 00:05:41] that together.

Also, just being a parent and trying to do literally any house things. I don't know how I ever did it pre-COVID, just like the amount of laundry and the amount of grocery shopping and things that I can do when I'm productive in the morning at work and then go take an hour break and get chores done.

Brian Lehrer: Well, you mentioned a really interest thing-

Kristen: Luckily, I work for a company-

Brian Lehrer: -which is that these things didn't exist as options before COVID and people had-- maybe you didn't have somebody in pre-K at that time, but pre-K didn't have aftercare. Maybe it did at the beginning of COVID as a service when the emergency struck. It sounds like you have a different standard than you would've even thought to have before the pandemic.

Kristen: Yes. I honestly don't know how people ever got it done. Now that I'm in it with two kids, and then my first was going into pre-K right when COVID was a thing, and so the school I had applied to had an aftercare program that just never came back. I don't even know how people are doing it that have to go in.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you so much. Please call us again, Evan in Teaneck, you're on WNYC. Hi, Evan.

Evan: Hi, Brian. I could definitely relate to what your first caller just said. Another Bergen County resident, where we definitely did gain so much more time and ability to do more, but my issue was that just [unintelligible 00:07:10] to downtown from Bergen County, just a miserable, miserable experience, which I think we all knew at the time, but we didn't really appreciate how horrible it was until we had to stop doing it. Where you have the experience, if you could have a good day of work and you leave the office six o'clock or seven o'clock at night with energy, and by the time you get home, you're just exhausted and nauseous and you've just wasted at three or four hours of your day commuting and- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: It's not crime risk on the train, if you're commuting by train, it's not COVID risk, it's just commuting stinks?

Evan: I'm actually one of those people that I used to commute into the port authority for many years, and then a few years ago, I gave it up and started driving in and parking on the street.

Brian Lehrer: That definitely stinks.

Evan: You could still park, but it's very hard. Even just the commuting time, it's two hours of your life potentially each way.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Evan. Thank you for your call. Ali in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ali.

Ali: Hi. Good morning, Brian. Good morning to all your listeners for taking my call. I told your screener I'm a person who works in financial services. I go into the office about three days a week. I'm very grateful for the flexibility. I'm also a parent, so I certainly can relate to the commuting and childcare challenges. I think the thing that's not really been discussed is the shift in values and priorities that COVID had on a lot of people. I think whereas a lot of us identified with our work and having that so critical to how we see ourselves, COVID changed that, people's values on their family, on their wellbeing, on their mental health, and also seeing how a lot of their employers treated them during COVID.

A lot of that loyalty was lost and just really a lot more focus on themselves and what's going to benefit them. I've seen that shift. I see it actually now when we're trying to hire people. One of the things I first hear is, "Well, am I going to able to work from home? What types of flexibility options you have for me?" That's playing a huge, huge role. I think how employers are thinking about [unintelligible 00:09:26] and how they're going to be planning for retention. I just wanted to put my 2 cents out there, but there has been a significant emotional and mental shift about how we value work and how we see ourselves at our work. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Let's see, we've heard from Ridgewood, Queens. That wasn't Ridgewood, New Jersey, by the way, that first call at Ridgewood, Queens. Then from Bergen County. Then from Ali right there in Manhattan. Let's go out to the island, Sonya in Wanton, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sonya.

Sonya: Hi Brian. I love your show. Been listening for years. Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Sonya: I'm working from home five days a week and I love it. My quality of life went up so much as a result. I get to get up, go to the gym, not worry about what I look like, come home. I'm available for my kids. What your last caller just said is so true. My workload doubled during the pandemic and I did not see an equivalent salary increase. Honestly, Brian, if my company wanted us all to go back to the office five days a week or even three days a week, I'd seriously consider looking elsewhere.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much, Sonya. Thank you for your call. All right, let's go to Maxtel in Brooklyn, who I think is going back to the office. Yes. Hi, Maxtel.

Maxtel: Yes. Hi, Brian. I'm very happy to talk to talk on your show. You're my favorite. I just want to let you know, I commute every day and I'm 60 years old and I like to train. I think it's fast, it's good. Now, I like to go to work because during the pandemic, staying home was very bad for me. I like to be with the people and I love that. I don't want to just stay home-

Brian Lehrer: Yes. One of the motivation to go back is to be with people.

Maxtel: Exactly? That's my main one.

Brian Lehrer: You told our screener you're 60. Do you have fear of COVID at your age, of serious COVID by going back or being on the train so much?

Maxtel: No, I never had fear, to tell you the truth, because I took my three vaccines. Every time there was vaccine I took it. I never feel bad going to work. I'm still using mask when I'm in the train, but [unintelligible 00:11:57] I don't use it and I feel good. I feel like [unintelligible 00:12:01]

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much. Call us again. Please call us again. All right. One more. Rajendra in Edison, you're on WNYC. Rajendra, we've got about 30 seconds for you. Hi.

Rajendra: Thanks, Brian. Yes, I'll try to make this quick. As everybody is saying, they've got their own reasons for doing or not doing something. I am not in the situation that you've described. I was laid off, I think, three years back, but the situation [inaudible 00:12:28] working from home as part of the plan that the company had for a long time. Then suddenly, it was going to be taken away and it didn't make any sense to me because I was part of the financial company and I was dealing with people in Poland and in Switzerland and everywhere else and been working all across.

Brian Lehrer: You didn't need to be in the office to do your job anyway, why take it away?

Rajendra: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Unfortunately, that's going to have to be the last word. Rajendra, thank you for calling in. Thanks to everybody who called in. Interesting sampling of why people are not returning to the office if they have an option.

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