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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As promised, time now for our daily quiz segment for the fall membership drive. We're going to do a membership drive and ask you for money. We got to at least have some fun along the way, right? We're going to play a game every day through which we might also learn a lot of stuff. We call it is it the truth or is it a lie?
Each day, some of the questions will be on our democracy and peril 30 issues theme for the day, so today, gerrymandering and districting. Some of the questions will be on what we hope will be an interesting variety of other things.
Yes, there are prizes. If you get three in a row right, we'll send you our brand new Brian Lehrer Show pro-democracy tote bag. Who wants to try your hand? I see people are lining up already. That's great. We have some open lines too at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Who wants to use your internal lie detector to see how well you can distinguish truth from lies that I'm about to tell you? 212-433-WNYC. No cost to play. A pro-democracy tote as a prize if you win. 212-433-9692. Let's go right to Brandy in Manhattan who's ready for a quiz question. Hey, Brandy.
Brandy: Hello. Good morning.
Brian Lehrer: Is this the truth or is it a lie? Gerrymandering got its name from early 19th century Massachusetts governor, Elbridge Gerry, after the state Senate district maps he drew were likened to the shape of a salamander by a newspaper editor.
Brandy: True.
Brian Lehrer: That is the truth. If you were paying attention, as you obviously were to the last segment, or if you just knew that anyway, then you would know that's the salamander that helped his political party stay in power in Massachusetts' salamander-shaped district. Gerry, by the way, went on to be vice president under James Madison. Over time, as our guest said, we came to mispronounce his name and say gerrymandering, even though his name was pronounced Gerry. I guess we see G-E-R-R-Y and we instinctively say Jerry, and that stuck over time. Next question. Is this the truth or is it a lie? The Constitution says that every state gets two senators and at least two members of the House.
Brandy: True.
Brian Lehrer: Sorry, Brandy. Nice try. That is a lie. Two senators, yes, but the house delegation is purely based on population. Sure enough, some states have only one member of the House. Here's Daniel calling from San Francisco. Hi, Daniel. You're on WNYC. Ready to play?
Daniel: I'm ready, Brian. Let's do it.
Brian Lehrer: Let's do it. Is this the truth or is it a lie? George Washington issued the first-ever presidential veto over a bill from Congress that tried to permanently give the northern states more seats than the South, so a kind of a permanent North-South gerrymander that would have benefited the North. George Washington issued the first-ever presidential veto in American history so that wouldn't happen. Is that the truth or is that a lie?
Daniel: Never heard this one before, so 50/50 shot. I'm going to go with truth.
Brian Lehrer: That is the truth. Alexander Hamilton wanted that northern advantage, Thomas Jefferson opposed it, and Washington sided with his fellow Virginian. That's one. Next question. Is this the truth or is it a lie? Every congressional district has to be roughly the same geographical size.
Brian Lehrer: I'm going to say lie.
Daniel: That is a lie. They have to have roughly the same population. That's the one person, one vote doctrine that everyone's vote for Congress carries the same weight because of the population parity. Of course, that leads to very wide size disparities. That's why the proposition there was a lie. Think about this. Sure it's true in San Francisco too where you are more or less, but New York City alone includes 11 congressional districts.
The entire state of Wyoming and the entire state of Vermont have only one congressional district. That one is not going to be Liz Cheney anymore in Wyoming, but it's still just one member. That's two in a row right. If you get this, you win a Brian Lehrer Show pro-democracy tote. Is this the truth or is it a lie? Having districts with the same number of people in them, like we just described, only started happening in the 20th century.
Daniel: I'm going to say that's true.
Brian Lehrer: That is the sad truth. Cue the sound there.
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Brian Lehrer: Why? Because of slavery and Jim Crow, and then anti-immigrant policies on top of those and a lack of enforcement, there wasn't really a quality of residence until the Supreme Court case called Baker v Carr in 1962. Congratulations, Daniel. You won yourself a Brian Lehrer Show pro-democracy tote. Hang on, we're going to take your address there in San Francisco and put it in the mail. Next player. Nicky in Harlem. Hi, Nicky. You're on WNYC. You're ready?
Nicky: Hey, Brian, you can hear me okay? There's some work going on in my condo. [chuckles]
Brian Lehrer: Yes, I can hear you just fine. Let's see. Is this the truth or is it a lie? Picking and kicking is a phrase to describe the process of gerrymandering. Picking and kicking.
Nicky: Picking and kicking?
Brian Lehrer: Yes.
Nicky: True.
Brian Lehrer: That is false, but it was such a hard question. I'm going to let you take another one. It's packing and cracking [chuckles] not picking and kicking. Creating a district that packs as many of your opponent's party as possible and cracks or divides them across several districts so they don't hold a majority in any of them. Since even I never heard of that, I'm going to call that an educational moment, but not a question that we're going to hold you responsible for. We're going to give you another one.
Nicky: Thank you.
Brian Lehrer: Is this the truth or is it a lie? New York State Democrats tried to pack and crack the state this year to give more seats to Democrats unfairly, but New York's highest court throughout the map is two partisan.
Nicky: That's true.
Brian Lehrer: That is true. Is this the truth or is it a lie? One of the most important Supreme Court cases of this new term is over a claim that state courts cannot review a gerrymandered district drawn by the legislature. That the legislature should have total unreviewable power to create district lines, forget about checks and balances. Is it the truth or is it a lie that that's the case before the Supreme Court?
Nicky: I'm going to say true.
Brian Lehrer: That is the truth. Believe it or not, that's the Alabama case we were talking about in the segment. We'll see what happens in it, but they want to take the courts out of having a review process. That's two. Is this the truth or is it a lie? With all this gerrymandering from state to state, Nate Cohn, The New York Times' chief political analyst, wrote nonetheless that by some measures, this year's redistricting--
Sorry, I'm going to ask this question again because I didn't ask it properly. Let me read my own writing accurately here. With all this gerrymandering from State to State, Nate Cohn, The New York Times' chief political analyst, wrote that, "By some measure, this year's redistricting gave us the most skewed House map of the last 40 years." Is that the truth or is that a lie that he wrote that?
Nicky: The most skewed? I'm going to say true.
Brian Lehrer: I'm sorry, Nicky. Unfortunately for you, that is a lie. Although probably fortunately for the country, he called it the most fair House map of the last 40 years, believe it or not, based on Biden's margin of victory in each district. The new map showed a 220 to 215 GOP edge, hypothetically, and that's because Biden easily won the national popular vote, but Trump won more individual congressional districts. The slight edge to Republicans, as The New York Times' chief political analyst has it, is consistent with how people voted. Let's see. I think we have time for at least one more. David in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, David. Ready to play?
David: Yes. Can I win the sweatshirt though?
Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Sure, why not? Because you ask for it, we're going to let you win the sweatshirt, although I think I'm going to have to take that up with the powers that be because the sweatshirt's more expensive. Is this the truth or is it a lie? No, I'm going to skip that one because it's a little confusing to read the answer. Next one. You know what we're going to do, we're going to go on to some districting and geography questions for a little bit of fun. Is this the truth or is it a lie? The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor is in Representative Nicole Malliotakis's congressional district, which spans Staten Island and Brooklyn.
David: I'm going to say false.
Brian Lehrer: That is false. That is a lie. It's in the district represented by Congressman Jerrold Nadler, which also includes some of New York Harbor. Is this the truth or is it a lie? Prospect Park in Brooklyn is in Senator Kirsten Gillibrand's district.
David: Of course, true.
Brian Lehrer: Of course. That was a trick question. Since Gillibrand is a senator, she represents all of New York State, and last we looked, that includes Prospect Park. Okay, that's two. You're one away from that sweatshirt you asked for. Princeton University is in New Jersey's 12th Congressional District represented by Bonnie Watson Coleman. Is that the truth or is that a lie?
David: I've never heard of her, so I'm going to say false.
Brian Lehrer: Unfortunately for you, but happily for the people of the Princeton area because they voted her in, that is the truth. Bonnie Watson Coleman represents New Jersey's 12th Congressional District, including Princeton. All right. David, thanks for trying. Glad we gave away a couple of tote bags there. Anyway, we'll have another is it the truth or is it a lie democracy quiz on tomorrow's special pledge drive edition of The Brian Lehrer Show. Stay with us.
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