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Brigid Bergen: This is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergen, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian who's off today. On today's show, we'll unpack Governor Kathy Hochul's budget proposal with an eye on what it means for the city. It's a $227 billion plan with some surprising policy proposals embedded in it. Then a conversation about caring for our elders financially, and what that means for the choices we make today.

Plus six more weeks of winter, it's Groundhog Day, 30 years since that movie became shorthand for those loops in life we just cannot break out of. We ask you to call in with what feels like Groundhog Day in your life. First, he's been in office for less than a month officially, but Congressman Dan Goldman has been busy. A Democrat, he's the freshman member of the New 10th Congressional District, a product of last year's wild redistricting cycle.

The district stretches from Lower Manhattan across to the neighborhoods along the North Brooklyn Waterfront. Goldman was the winner of a very crowded primary that included several current and former elected officials. Part of the case he made to voters was that he could bring his skills as a former federal prosecutor to serve as a check on what was expected to be an even more Republican-controlled Congress. Goldman is no stranger to Washington, DC.

He served as lead prosecutor in the first impeachment investigation of former President Trump. Since the start of this 118th Congress, he has been an outspoken critic of another member of the New York Congressional delegation, that would be Republican Congressman George Santos from Queens and Long Island. Joining me now to talk about his work, both in Washington and here at home, is Congressman Dan Goldman. Congressman, welcome back to WNYC.

Dan Goldman: Thanks for having me, Brigid. Great to be here.

Brigid Bergen: Listeners, particularly those of you in the 10th Congressional District, our phones are open. What are your questions about this new Congress, some of the work Congressman Goldman will be doing on the committees he's assigned to, which we're going to talk about? Is there any issue in the district that you want to ask about or put on his radar? Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

Congressman, as I said, you have been busy on a lot of fronts. Before we talk about Congressman Santos, I want to start with your oversight work. In this case, oversight with a lowercase note since that's what you're doing writ large through your office. Just yesterday as a member of the House Oversight Committee, capital O, you were part of a hearing that the Republican majority said would target pandemic-era spending fraud. Can you tell us a little about yesterday's hearing and how you approached the hearing in a different way?

Dan Goldman: Sure. I think when you have these large appropriations from Congress, which happened after the 2008 financial crisis as well, you are going to have bad actors who prey on the opportunity to defraud the government in these programs. There's no question that we have seen that because of the unprecedented nature of this pandemic, and Congress's truly remarkable effort to not only save lives but save the economy during the shutdown.

You had a number of bad actors who did defraud the government in the PPP program and in the other programs that Congress appropriated. In theory, having some oversight from the Oversight committee of waste, fraud, and abuse is a legitimate function of the Oversight committee. As with all things in this Republican Congress, that wasn't exactly how they approached it, nor was it the purpose of the hearing, notwithstanding the name.

I thought it was important for us as Democrats to point out what is merited for oversight and why this partisan blame game is unhelpful and frankly, just incorrect. When you look the pandemic response, the initial wave of money happened during the Trump administration, and much of the problems stemmed from the Trump administration. I think that the Biden administration has done an admirable job, not only in cracking down on fraud but in making sure that the federal government is working much more for the people. We tried to bring that perspective to this hearing.

Brigid Bergen: You were also tapped to serve on the select committee on weaponization of the federal government that will be chaired by Congressman Jim Jordan. It's been described as "a sweeping new select committee that will review misconduct by the federal government." You have called it the GOP subcommittee to obstruct justice. What do you view as your role on that committee?

Dan Goldman: It is that because it is a sweeping jurisdiction for this subcommittee including the authority to investigate ongoing criminal investigations which is a very transparent way of trying to interfere in the Department of Justice's ongoing investigations into Donald Trump and even into some of the House Republicans themselves. What I'm hoping to bring to that committee is based on my 10 years working for the Department of Justice alongside the FBI and my work as a staff member on the House Intelligence Committee where I interacted with the intelligence community on a daily basis is to bring some facts and truth to what is almost certainly going to be overreaching and partisan investigative effort by Jim Jordan.

I sat across from Jim Jordan for 17 depositions during the impeachment investigation, and I got to know him and his tactics. I think what we, as Democrats, are going to do is bring a very sober, serious approach to making sure that we defend our institutions of democracy, that we defend the rule of law. That we actually bring some expertise about how the federal government works.

That is not something that the Republican members, including Jim Jordan, seem to understand very well. I view my job in part is to make sure that the Department of Justice, the executive agencies that are trying to be a bulwark for democracy are defended in the sense of what their jobs are and what they're doing, and making sure that we understand, and the American people truly understand how our government works for the people, not in a partisan way that the Republicans will bring.

Brigid Bergen: We're going to go to one of our callers. Let's go to Andrew in Middle Village. Andrew, you are on the line with Congressman Dan Goldman.

Andrew: Oh, thanks very much. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Congressman Goldman, I just actually have three questions but I'll keep to two. When are you going to audit the Pentagon? In other words, all that money that is poured into the military industry complex, a ton of it is not accounted for. Up to $2 trillion has been lost. When are you going to audit specifically the monies that have been sent to Ukraine, to fund a war, and when are you going to call for diplomacy to end that org because that is the only way that that war is going to end?

When is this country going to stop being involved in endless wars?

Dan Goldman: Thanks for the question, Andrew. I think at least I am concerned about the growing spending that is occurring with our defense budget which continues to increase every year, notwithstanding the fact that the Iraq and the Afghanistan wars are over. I think you raised a very good point that will probably come up as the Republicans insist on cutting spending. They are traditionally going to want to cut spending for domestic programs including Social Security and Medicare, which we, as Democrats, are going to vigorously defend.

We are going to insist on some cuts in defense spending to be comparable to any cuts that occur in domestic spending. I think you raise an issue, which frankly is something I want to bring, which is oversight and accountability to all government programs, both federally, but also within the district and within the city, making sure that we are doing the proper oversight and holding NYCHA accountable, for example. Yes, we need a lot of funding for NYCHA capital improvement, but we also need to make sure that our NYCHA residents are living with dignity and living with heat and hot water, and basic needs and that's something that all too often NYCHA is failing to do. Oversight and accountability as in the minority is going to be something that we can still effectively do, even if it's going to be hard to pass our legislative priorities.

Brigid Bergen: You're listening to the Brian Lehrer show, I'm Brigid Bergen in for Brian, who's out today, and my guest is Congressman Dan Goldman. Listeners, we're putting a call, especially for those in the 10th Congressional District. Our phones are open. If you have questions for Congressman Goldman, the number is 212-433 WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Congressman Goldman, let's talk about Santos.

The last time you were on this show, just after winning the general election, Congressman Santos was the guest right before you and in that interview, he repeated some of his now-debunked claims. Like four of his employees died at the Pulse nightclub shooting. He also went on to say this about what he thought voters in his district wanted.

Congressman Santos: Transparency, accountability, these are things that Americans are looking for now. They want people held accountable. They want transparency. They want accountability from Congress on top of good governance, and we need to deliver good governance in this next congress and deliver an agenda that's going to be good for the people.

Brigid Bergen: One of your first moves was to work with Congressman Ritchie Torres in the Bronx to file a complaint with the House Ethics Committee against Congressman Santos, as well as introducing legislation named the Santos Act which stands for stopping another non-truthful office seeker. Congressman Goldman, when did you start digging into Santos and realizing that there were serious questions about his past?

Dan Goldman: Well, in mid-December, The New York Times had a bombshell report about all of his lies. The thing that I based on my training as a prosecutor homed in on were his finances because his lies about his ethnicity, his religion, his education, his employment are really startling and shocking. Part of the reason that we introduced that Santos Act is because those are not crimes, but what could potentially be a crime or a violation of ethics in government, the act that prohibits members of Congress from lying about their campaign finance disclosures.

That is where the true legal violations can lie, and so I really started digging in and looking closely at his financial statements and there were red lights all over the place related to his campaign finances and his financial disclosures. That's why Congressman Torres and I referred his campaign finances to the Ethics Committee for an investigation. Of course, as we now know federal criminal authorities are looking into the same Financial Conduct.

I think they're two separate issues. One is just core basic ethics. He wants to talk about transparency and accountability the irony just screams out loud. He deceived his voters, he induced them to vote for him based on a web of lies, and that's enough for him to resign. Then there also may be violations of law that he should be held accountable for.

Brigid Bergen: Congressman, are there any updates? I know the house ethics investigation process is confidential. It is lengthy, but is there anything new to tell listeners about since you've initially filed that complaint?

Dan Goldman: Well, the big thing that jumps out to me is the reporting that the Department of Justice has asked the FEC the Federal Election Commission to stand down on its investigation of Santos, which based on my experience working for the DOJ occurs when there is an active ongoing criminal investigation that the department does not want to have any interference from other civil investigations. That's a clear indication to me that there is an investigation, a criminal investigation into George Santos.

The fact that Kevin McCarthy forced him to resign from his committees, or at least recuse, whatever he called it recuses himself is a clear indication that the Republican leadership knows that George Santos defrauded his voters. There's no real explanation for why he should come off his committees but still remain in Congress. The same logic should lead him to resign fully from Congress. I do think that the pressure from the voters as well is starting to get to, but not just Santos, but to Kevin McCarthy to Elise Stefanik, who was his biggest supporter. We'll see what happens. Every day there's something new that comes out about him.

Brigid Bergen: Well, that's right. As you've mentioned some of the stuff that's come out this week, but I'll remind our listeners as you said, Santos said he would step down from his committee assignments. POLITICO reported yesterday that the FBI is investigating his role in that GoFundMe charity scheme connected to a veteran's sick dog. His campaign treasurer has fully resigned, Congressman Torres asked the Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate some of Santos's business dealings in Florida.

As a former prosecutor, when you see investigations happening on all these different tracks, do you think that Santos is holding on to his seat as a bargaining chip in case he does face criminal charges? How long can a strategy like that last?

Dan Goldman: It's quite possible that he is doing that. I think at the end of the day, Santos has no reason for himself to resign but it was really incumbent upon the Republican leadership to make the decision as to whether or not they want to continue to embrace such a fraudster as part of their party and part of their conference in Congress. Santos may want to hold on, but at some point, one would hope that Republican leadership would not want to continue to support such a lier and fraudster.

Brigid Bergen: Finally, just as a member of Congress who is dealing with constituent issues, you've alluded to this, the impact of what is happening here really is very much on the voters in Santos's district. There was that, of course, Siena College Newsday poll this week that found that more than 78% of voters polled in his district want him to resign but as you said, Republicans have said the voters elected him but now they're left with a half representative. Can you speak to what you think the impact is on the voters?

Dan Goldman: Yes. Look, I think that rationale is quite ridiculous, actually. That's like saying that someone who lies on a bank loan application is absolved of guilt because the bank gave them the money. Well, the bank gave them the money because of the fraud. George Santos got his votes because of his fraud. It is quite indicative that over 60% of the voters who voted for him in that Siena poll that you referenced said they would not have voted for him if they knew the truth.

That is a completely bogus explanation that doesn't stand up. Yes, if I were a voter in the Third District of New York, I'd be furious. A lot of our work happens in the committees. I'm on the Homeland Security Committee, and one of the things that I've really started focusing on is the asylee crisis that New York City is facing. If I were not on that committee, I would not have the same access, and the same ability to do that work and so George Santos wanders around Congress doing nothing other than voting in support of Kevin McCarthy on whatever Kevin McCarthy puts forward, but he's unable to actually do the work for his district and for his voters that they sent him to do.

Brigid Bergen: You're listening to The Brian Lehrer Show. I'm Brigid Bergen from the WNYC in Gothamist newsroom in for Brian today. My guest is Congressman Dan Goldman. Congressman, we're going to talk about that crisis with migrants here in New York in just a moment, but our lines are full of constituents and callers who want to speak with you. Let's go to Marvin in Brooklyn. Marvin, welcome to WNYC you're on with Congressman Dan Goldman.

Marvin: Hi, Brigid. Thank you for your work, and Hi Dan. The question I wanted to ask is since you won the primary, you've been very active in terms of co-fundraising and helping elect Democrats, how do you see your role in terms of helping us recapture the House and especially to make up for the seats we lost in New York State in this current election? We're very proud of the job that you've been doing.

Dan Goldman: Thank you so much, Marvin. It's a great question. I think there's a lot of energy and excitement within the Democratic caucus, notwithstanding the fact that we are in the minority. We are all very focused on making sure that we take back the House in 2024. That is a key element of what we're doing because as you can see, from the first couple of weeks of this Republican majority, they're not serious about actual legislation that can help the majority of American people and certainly that will help the constituents in New York 10 in my district.

They're much more interested in fringe elements and QAnon conspiracies and messaging resolutions that have no chance of becoming law. We are very unified here in Congress, and we're very focused on making sure that we put our best candidates forward to flip the House again. I can tell you that the New York delegation has been spending a lot of time together, talking about what happened in New York in the last election and figuring out a path forward to make sure that it does not happen again in the next election.

We're very supportive of each other, and we're very focused. I think everybody in our New York delegation is very disappointed in the results in New York, which you could make a very good argument that there were enough close races that swung the majority to the Republicans. One of the things that we need to emphasize is, especially working together with not only the governor, but our local and state elected officials to make sure everyone understands that so many of our priorities within the city, within the state, hinge on federal funding.

If Democrats don't have the majority, we cannot get that federal funding for our priorities in the state. It's not only something that we in Congress are focused on, but it's something that we as an entire state need to be focused on.

Brigid Bergin: That's a great setup for our next caller. Chaz in Manhattan. Chas, welcome to WNYC. What's your question for Congressman Goldman?

Chaz: Thank you. Appreciate your work, Congressman. I'm on the North side of 14th Street, your district ends on the South side of 14th Street. Now that you're in the minority, how are you going to procure funds for the district, which as you point out needs infrastructure funds and new monies to handle a lot of problems? How as a minority member do you procure funds for the district?

Dan Goldman: Chaz, that's exactly the point. In the minority, it is very, very hard to get the funding for the programs that actually help Americans, help citizens of our city, of our state. We are lucky in some respects because the last Congress was so productive. We have a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that was passed, and now some of that money is starting to be dispersed. I had the honor of joining President Biden, the Hudson Yards earlier this week, where there was an announcement of the first phase moving forward on the Gateway tunnel underneath the Hudson River, which will really revolutionize rail traffic, and provide much-needed infrastructure support.

We are going to be focused on making sure that New York is getting as much of the money that has already been appropriated, but the reality is, it's going to be very hard in the minority. This is why it stinks to be in the minority. This is why it's so important that every Democrat recognizes how important it is for Democrats to be in the majority. Republicans are not interested in helping anyone other than their special interests and the wealthiest among us.

We as Democrats are consistently trying to fight for programs and policies that lift up underserved communities that expand the middle class, that expand our tax base, provide jobs. You raise a great point, which is that we don't control what comes to the floor in the House, so it's very, very difficult in the minority to get new funding.

Brigid Bergin: Chaz, thanks so much for your call. Congressman, I want to shift gears and talk about some federal issues at play here in your district. The city says since mid-January, nearly 30,000 migrants have come to the city seeking asylum and shelter. Mayor Eric Adams has repeatedly asked for more federal assistance and a federal solution to this issue. The newest shelter housing migrants here in the city is at the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal in your district. There have been protests over the conditions there, and Mayor Adams pushed back on those comments yesterday.

Mayor Adams: When I went to the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal because you all know me, I like to go underground. I heard all of these complaints about no heat, no hot water, no food. When I went there, and saw the cleans bathrooms, a heat, warm, some people were wearing shorts as size and the migrants and asylum seekers, what they said to me, they said, "Thank you, Mr. Mayor, we would like to work." That's why I'm pushing to make sure that they're able to work. We did not hear one person there saying that they did not want to be there.

Brigid Bergin: Congressman, have you been able to tour that facility yet? If not, do you plan to?

Dan Goldman: No, I've actually been in Washington since it opened, but the first thing I'm going to do when I touch ground this afternoon, coming back from DC is to go directly there from the airport because I also want to see it for myself. I think people need to understand what a massive undertaking this is. We're not Texas, we're not these border states that basically don't provide any services or any support for asylees who come into this country. We are in New York City, and we are treating these migrants and these asylees as we treat our own, that is something we should be really proud of, but it also makes it a herculean task to house 60,000 asylees who have come through already.

I do commend the mayor and his administration for working around the clock to do the very best they can in what is an incredibly difficult situation. As I mentioned to the mayor when I saw him on Tuesday, I am working on the federal level, working with the administration, trying to get funding, trying to get support, we are going to be trying to figure out a work authorization situation because my experience and talking to these asylees when they come here that they do want to work. That's what they're hoping they can get, they have expertise from their own training that can be helpful to our city.

We are all working together to not only try to house the asylees as they come in and have them live with dignity that every citizen of any country deserves, but also to try to get them to work so that they can help our economy.

Brigid Bergin: Congressman, several of the individuals who were supposed to be housed in that facility, I'm told my colleagues, the conditions there are inhumane. Is your office getting any reports about the conditions there?

Dan Goldman: Yes, we've been in regular contact, my office has been in regular contact with the Department of Emergency Services in the city as well as the mayor's office. Our understanding is that the situation there is a little bit better than what was reported earlier this week, but it's still not ideal by any stretch. One of the reasons why I'm going there today is to see for myself exactly what is going on, but my office is in very close contact with everyone involved in this operation. We want to make sure that we give adequate housing and support and shelter and food and access to everyone who comes into the city while trying to solve this really, really difficult situation from the top down as well.

Brigid Bergin: You mentioned that part of what you'll be working for in Washington is to extend work authorizations so that some of these individuals can begin working and supporting earning a livelihood. Is there more that the federal government could be doing to deal with this immediate crisis, and do you have any hope for a more long-term solution?

Dan Goldman: Well, we have to figure out a longer-term solution and part of that falls into some form of comprehensive immigration reform. I would very much like to see more asylum judges, more lawful visas as part of any immigration reform that we move forward. We also just simply need funding from the federal government for all of these asylees that are coming into to our city.

I emphasized to the president this week when I saw him that New York City is treating these asylees so much better than anywhere else that they are treated and we are providing them with dignified shelter and housing to the best of our abilities in the city, but we need federal help and so we are working very hard to secure that and to try to figure out a more permanent solution for this crisis.

Brigid Bergin: Let's go to some of our callers, Adam in Brooklyn. You are on the line with Congressman Dan Goldman.

Adam: Hi Congressman. You're now on the House Committee on Homeland Security, which counts immigration policy among its responsibilities, but your name was conspicuously absent from the letter that over 70 of your Democratic colleagues in the House and Senate sent last week to President Biden calling for an end to Title 42. Title 42, it's not just bad policy, it's a violation of the due process rights that asylum seekers are entitled to under federal and international law.

The courts have already found the policy to be arbitrary and capricious of violation of the law on the day it was implemented and even the rationalizations then by Stephen Miller no longer apply. Title 42 is fundamentally based on the racist lie that asylum seekers carry diseases that pose a threat to Americans, and there's no justification for staying silent on it. I know you like to talk about how your grandmother found asylum in this country. When will you break your silence and join your colleagues and call for an end to Title 42, rather than continuing to slam the door behind you on people who have just as much of a right to seek asylum in this country as your grandmother did?

Dan Goldman: Well, that's a great point and we are actively trying to figure out a solution to replace Title 42. I certainly do not think that the title 42 should continue to proceed at this point it's outdated. If the administration is going to end the public health emergency from COVID on May 11th then Title 42 has absolutely no colorable basis. We need to figure out a substitute, not necessarily to remove asylees but to streamline the process and make sure that asylees get their due process rights, get their application heard expeditiously.

Our system is just overrun right now. We don't have enough lawyers, we don't have enough immigration judges. We don't have enough employees who can process all of the paperwork, all of the applications, and even all of the lawful visa applications, which need to increase as well to allow more people to come in legally which will reduce the number of people who are trying to come in illegally. We need comprehensive reform but that will include in my view, getting rid of Title 42.

Brigid Bergin: We have one last caller that we're going to ask our final question. Laura in Warren, New Jersey I know you have a question which was going to be my last question, which is about the debt ceiling, but we only have a few seconds, so if you could make your question tight, that would be great.

Laura: Okay. Hi, thank you. Yes, I'm a Democrat from New Jersey, and I'm very worried about the debt ceiling leading to default. I was hoping that the Democrats could reach out to Kevin McCarthy, who's obviously main priority is staying in his position rather than doing what's right for the country to say, we'll vote for you if you get a to stay in your position. If you bring up a dead ceiling increase without any strings attached to make that deal with him. What's wrong with making that deal and keeping him in his place because we can't elect a Democrat as speaker anyway.

Dan Goldman: It's a good question that a lot of people certainly were asking in that first week. I think what everybody needs to realize is Kevin McCarthy is not a good-faith actor and frankly, he cannot be trusted. I think if he were willing to provide some concessions to Democrats, we could support him but he would need to make sure that we get some of our bills to the floor and that we get something out of our support for him. Otherwise we are essentially propping up the Republicans in support of their extremist agenda.

Kevin McCarthy and the Republican Party should do the right thing, which is to pay our past debts. If we want to talk about spending cuts and reducing the deficit moving forward, that is an entirely separate conversation and it should be kept separate, but the reality is that the extremist Republicans want to eliminate our social security. They want to eliminate our Medicare and we cannot allow that to happen. We're not going to be held hostage by the threats of pushing our country and our world into an economic calamity.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there for today. I've been speaking with Congressman Daniel Goldman, who represents the 10th Congressional District. Congressman, good luck on your travels and your visit to the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal today. Thank you for joining us again.

Dan Goldman: Thank you so much for having me, Brigid. Take care.

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