[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. You've probably got the basic State of the Union headline by now, right? Joe Biden came to fight last night, to juice the enthusiasm of the Democratic Party base, to discredit Donald Trump, to swing voters, and to show that he's not too old to be riled up and feisty as hell. He also made a few new policy proposals, which could and should be getting more attention. We'll get to those.

About his tone, it struck me that it wasn't just about looking angry and alert. There was a humor piece to it too. I want to play a couple of examples. The bipartisan infrastructure bill is not usually something that people get passionate about or even remember very much. Here's how he got a laugh and made a point about Republicans being happy to use the money from the bill in their districts.

President Joe Biden: Thanks to our bipartisan infrastructure law, 46,000 new projects have been announced all across your communities. By the way, I noticed some of you who've strongly voted against it are there cheering on that money coming on.

[applause]

President Biden: I like it.

[applause]

President Biden: I'm with you. I'm with you.

[applause]

President Biden: If any of you don't want that money in your district, just let me know.

Brian Lehrer: "Just let me know if you don't want that money in your district." That's one example. Here's another. Not a laugh line in the same way, but he's creating a scenario around a good issue for Democrats, prescription drug prices, a scenario in which he invites people to get on an airplane with him.

President Biden: I want to cap prescription drug costs at $2,000 a year for everyone.

[applause]

President Biden: Folks, I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but maybe you want to get in Air Force One with me and fly to Toronto, Berlin, Moscow-- excuse me. Well, even Moscow probably.

[laughter]

President Biden: Bring your prescription with you. I promise you, I'll get it for you for 40% the cost you're paying now. Same company, same drug, same place.

Brian Lehrer: I take it back. It really was a laugh line, explicitly as well. I think he stumbled into that about Moscow, but it actually helped to make his point perhaps, Biden last night. Listeners, any reactions to the State of the Union address, memorable lines, things that turned you on or turned you off? Any questions? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Any swing voters out there literally deciding between Biden and Trump at this moment or between Biden and just staying away at this moment who was drawn toward one conclusion or another? I know it's early yet to come to a final conclusion, but anyone being swayed toward him, away from him? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. With us now is Washington Post White House correspondent Tyler Pager. Tyler, after, I'm guessing, not a full night's sleep, thanks for giving us some time this morning. Welcome to WNYC.

Tyler Pager: Great to be with you. Thanks so much for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, and callers, don't forget. You can text as well as call. We'll watch our texts go by and read interesting ones on the air, 212-433-WNYC, with your reactions to the State of the Union address. Where were you last night, Tyler? Do White House correspondents get to be in the hall?

Tyler Pager: I was in the Washington Post newsroom with many of my colleagues watching the speech live. Our congressional colleagues are usually stationed up on the Hill, giving us more insight into which members might be protesting or heckling the President and then grabbing members as they leave the chamber for reaction. They're much better at spotting many lawmakers that are in the chamber along, obviously, with the cabinet and the Supreme Court and other dignitaries. I was in the newsroom.

Brian Lehrer: I thought, as my clips indicated, that it was some of those moments where the President got a little more playful that were really important to making him look both not too old and connecting with people, not just lecturing them or talking at them. Where do you think the clips that we played fit into the bigger picture of the President's goals or approach last night?

Tyler Pager: I think there were two goals for the President last night. The first being was to really drive this hard contrast with former President Donald Trump obviously, his likely opponent for a rematch in November. He did not name Trump but made it very clear who he was talking about and, in less than four minutes into the speech, started assailing him for his comments about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, using the line "my predecessor" almost more than a dozen times throughout the speech.

I think that was the main focus, really trying to set up a choice for the American people between his vision and Trump's vision, each of them seeking a second term. I think the second part of the speech that he was really aiming to do was to assuage voters' concerns about his age, showing that he's still capable to run the country. Obviously, the oldest president in our country's history. He would be 86 at the end of his second term. We've seen poll after poll, Democrats, Republicans, independents, all raising questions and concerns about the President's age.

I think those moments last night where he was seemingly taunting the House Republicans to engage with him, to heckle him so that he could fight back was part of that broader effort to reframe the conversation and prove to the American people and to voters that he's with it. There's no questions about his mental acuity. Obviously, those were supercharged after the special counsel report that said he was an elderly, well-meaning man, but with a poor memory. He really wanted to fight back last night. I think a lot of those moments came from that desire.

Brian Lehrer: He got playful with his age too near the end of the speech when he brought it up. I didn't pull that clip, but he started that section by saying he's been around for a while, "I've been around for a while, [laughs]" but then here's the serious point he used to lead up to.

President Biden: My fellow Americans, the issue facing our nation isn't how old we are. It's how old are our ideas. Hate, anger, revenge, retribution are the oldest of ideas.

Brian Lehrer: In that jokey part leading up to that, he said, "I know it doesn't look like it, but I've been around for a while." Like I said, he used that to lead up to the serious point that we just played. That connected, Tyler, back to the beginning of the speech, which was really a very stark warning about democracy at home and abroad, invoking Trump repeatedly, like you said, as "my predecessor." Who do you think that appeals to politically? Who's not already with him?

Tyler Pager: Look, I think he's trying to win over those independents, the moderates. We saw that he made outreach to Nikki Haley and her donors and supporters. The wide swath of Americans that we see in polling are not interested or have questions about supporting Donald Trump again. I also think a lot of that was trying to energize his base. We have not seen the same enthusiasm for Biden that we have seen for Trump in terms of their core supporters.

I think we've seen some of the base drift away. I think part of this speech was, as White House officials told me in the lead-up, that this was the starting gun for the general election. He wanted to deliver and his aides wanted him to deliver a clear message to his supporters and to some of those swing voters, those independent-leaning, confused Americans about what to do in November and lay out the stakes and that contrast between him and Trump.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, did you or anybody in The Washington Post newsroom follow up on that note about Moscow? It was a mistake. I assume that it was not in the prepared remarks. You tell me. Maybe even in Moscow, there are better prescription drug prices for drugs made by the same companies that charge more for them here. Do you know?

Tyler Pager: Yes, that was not in the prepared remarks. We were closely following along there many times in the speech. Biden veered off from his prepared remarks as he has done throughout his entire career. You could very clearly see him just trying to list out cities there and mentioning Moscow and realizing, "Maybe that's not the city I want to reference right now," and trying to clarify and correct in real-time. That was one of the moments when he went off-script. The other one was that back and forth with Marjorie Taylor Greene over immigration.

He's now receiving some flak. He received some last night and continued into this morning over his use of the word "illegal" to describe the individual who has been charged in the death of a young woman in Georgia. There was a lot of off-script from Joe Biden last night as he has done in the past, flubbing lines a little bit, maybe saying not exactly what he intended to do. I do think that, overall, Democrats are very pleased with the performance last night, showing his energy, putting the Republicans on the defense, and really creating this clear contrast.

It was one of the most unusual State of the Union addresses. Just given the political nature of it, usually, these addresses are much more formal in terms of policy prescriptions. It's always just got a laundry list of ideas for a legislative agenda and setting out a vision. This was not that. There was not a ton of new policy announcements there. It was really a messaging speech, a campaign speech from the House chamber.

Brian Lehrer: Right. There were some new policy proposals you wrote them up in The Washington Post and we're going to get to them. Certainly, a lot of people in the New York area and a lot of cities are going to be interested in the fact that he proposed something on housing. That's usually something we expect to come more from local and state governments. There was something on housing. There was something on getting corporations and wealthy individuals to pay more of their share in taxes.

There was Gaza humanitarian aid, which we'll also get to, but he did have to address the border. I'm going to play that clip, which is, sorry, folks, probably the most played clip already if you've been listening to any coverage or watching any coverage since the speech, but I still think it's important to play. I'll start this by playing a clip from the Republican response from Alabama Senator Katie Britt, invoking a horrible murder that was real to make it seem like asylum seekers are coming for everybody's kids.

Senator Katie Britt: Under his administration, families are worse off. Our communities are less safe and our country is less secure. I just wish he understood what real families are facing around kitchen tables just like this one.

Brian Lehrer: Here's the moment when Biden brings up the border and his speech gets heckled by Marjorie Taylor Greene to mention the name of that woman who was killed, Laken Riley, who Katie Britt also mentioned, and the President engages.

[background noise]

President Biden: Laken Riley, an innocent young woman who was killed by an illegal, that's right, but how many of thousands of people are being killed by illegals? To her parents, I say, my heart goes out to you, having lost children myself. I understand.

Brian Lehrer: I think he adlibbed there. Like you said before, Tyler, he didn't mean to say "illegal." It came out sounding like "Lincoln." Her name is Laken Riley. Obviously, many people consider the word "illegal" to be offensive, but he tried to make also the point about asylum seekers as a group not committing more crime than people already here in that version of the clip that we played. I think a lot of the shorter soundbites that other news organizations have pulled didn't get to that point.

That's a really important point. Of course, he pushed the idea that Republicans led by Trump should be ashamed for blocking the bipartisan border bill. I guess my question for you is what's the next step on that issue? Because he starts at a big public opinion deficit and he used the speech last night to try to counter that. If you look at even the very recent polls, he's got such a big disapproval rating among Democrats as well as Republicans on the border.

Tyler Pager: Democrats always struggle on this issue in elections. I think they are many, for the first time, eager to try to flip the issue. Maybe not fully be able to take over Republicans' advantage on the issue of immigration in the border, but try to close the gap a little bit. That was what the President was trying to do last night. They're really trying to harness the momentum of that failed legislation and put the onus on Trump and the Republicans. We saw Biden go to the border last week, those dueling visits between Biden and Trump just 300 miles away from each other.

I think we'll continue to see him blame the Republicans for killing that legislation. Now, how successful that effort will be? It's hard to tell. I think they finally have something, though, that they can sell. I think for a while, Democrats have struggled with inter-party fights over how tough to be on the border. We're already seeing the President get criticism for his remarks last night, but also for the legislation itself. The Congressional Hispanic Caucus and other Latino leaders have been very harsh about the President's posture on the border and on immigration that was shown through this bill that he supported.

Obviously, it was dead upon arrival after President Trump started calling Republicans, telling them to vote against the bill. We'll see how this moves the ball at all in terms of polling and support. I think it's extremely unlikely that Democrats gain an advantage on the issue. I think they feel that they can at least try to put the Republicans a little bit more on the defensive on something that they're usually stronger than Democrats on.

Brian Lehrer: On that issue, listener texts, "Love Biden's line about how he would not demonize immigrants and directly rejecting and calling out Trump's line about how they were poisoning the blood of the country." Are you surprised that he brought that Trump quote into the State of the Union?

Tyler Pager: No, I think he was really trying to put Trump's words at the forefront. We saw him do that multiple times. He did that about Trump's rhetoric on Russia, saying Putin could do whatever he wanted to NATO countries that weren't meeting defense spending guidelines. I think he really wanted to emphasize the President's words and draw that contrast. I think that was a clear through-line on many of the biggest issues, abortion, Russia, the border, the economy, where the President wanted to make clear where he stood and where Trump did.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "I teach American government and told my students I would not be watching the speech, though I would likely follow on X or Twitter. Once there, I saw all sorts of comments about how robust the speech was, so flipped on the radio to listen. I was not bored. I also listened to the GOP response, and oh my." I'm not sure if you as a White House correspondent would look at Twitter or if that person's Twitter, seeing a lot of positive remarks, might have just been based on who he follows and who follows him. Social media does a lot more than people who watch the whole thing live on television these days, I think, to determine how it lands ultimately.

Tyler Pager: Yes, absolutely. We saw, quite universally, acclaim for this speech last night. You saw the usual partisan types falling into their camps, Democrats lauding the speech, and Republicans criticizing it. Just reviewing the coverage this morning, it was clear that Biden did quite well, that he accomplished what he was hoping to do, which was reset the last few months where we have seen a precipitous drop in his approval rating.

Whether or not this moves the ball in terms of that, I think it's unlikely to see a big jump just because how many Americans are tuning in for the entire stretch of the speech. Most are probably going to see clips of it today and into the coming days. I think it was a messaging reset too. I'll be with the President this afternoon outside Philadelphia for his first post-State of the Union campaign event. I'll be with him again tomorrow in the Atlanta area for another event. We'll see this message continue to spread in the next few days.

He will travel next week as well to more battleground states trying to emphasize and enhance the message for voters who may not have tuned in. I think it is clear that Democrats feel very good about the President's performance last night. There was a lot of anxiety heading into the big speech in part because the White House had set really high expectations for it, promising a big performance by the President and Democrats that I've spoken to since the speech and did feel that he did meet that bar if not quite a bit.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener writes, "It seemed that last night's State of the Union might be the first time that the Republican members of Congress never applauded or stood for anything the President said." Is that the case? First of all, is that how you saw it? Did they never stand once and even when he said things that were intended for broad patriotic appeal?

Tyler Pager: We saw some. Speaker Johnson standing behind the President stood at the beginning for a few things and then we saw some assorted members stand at times, but I do think we did not see the full-chamber standing ovation that we have normally come to see. Then, again, as we talked about earlier in the program, this was unlike any other State of the Union address.

It was much more political. It was much less policy-focused. There was obviously components of that, elements of that some new policy introduced a big portion of the speech focused on selling his accomplishments, but it wasn't your typical State of the Union address. I think that may have also contributed to the lack of universal standing ovations that we're used to when we watch the State of the Union.

Brian Lehrer: We're getting a lot of responses on the Republican response. One listener writes, "Britt was just fear-mongering since the Republicans have no record. That's all they can do, keep trying to scare you." Somebody else hated the melodramatic Republican response, "Had to turn it off." Another one says, "The Republican response shows what the GOP thinks a woman's place is. Maybe because she did it in her kitchen." What are you hearing about the Republican response? It was certainly different from the ones we usually hear. I think it was very less dry. It was very emotional. What do you think and what are you hearing?

Tyler Pager: Yes, I think the message was what we would expect from the Republicans trying to hit those areas that they see Biden weakest at, on immigration, on the economy, inflation, and the cost of goods that have risen over the years of Biden's presidency, also making references to the President's age. I think most of the commentary last night that I saw and heard from Democrats and including from some Republicans was about the staging and the performance.

Some Republican posters pointing out that it was maybe not the best idea to have the female senator from Alabama sitting in her kitchen and the staging of it and the performative nature of the address, but also I think we've seen on both parties when they are giving the response, Democrat or Republican, that speech is heavily criticized. Marco Rubio getting the sip of water, former Representative Kennedy and his chapped lips. There's always a lot of commentary about the appearance and delivery of the opposing party's response, but I do think we did see a lot of criticism last night of Senator Britt from Alabama delivering the official Republican response.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener writes, "Republicans did give the civil rights leader in the First Lady's box a standing ovation, but consider their attempts to undo any civil rights-related legislation." Another listener writes, "Also love POTUS," the President, "reminding SCOTUS," Supreme Court, "of the quote 'power of women.' I wonder why that statement isn't getting more attention." Anything on that?

Tyler Pager: Yes, it was a remarkable moment. I think one of the reasons it's not getting as much attention is he didn't deliver the line as crisply and cleanly as it was written in the speech. This was in reference to the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade and Biden making the point, reading directly from the opinion in which the justice has wrote that women have the political power to try to codify abortion rights.

Biden set that up to look directly at the Supreme Court justices, call them out as he called for people to vote a Congress that would send him a bill to codify Roe v. Wade nationally. It was a remarkable moment for the President staunch institutionalists believing in the separation of the branches of government, but really taking them on directly there. I do think, though, the line was a little bungled and it may have not gotten the intended effect.

It was clear the White House wanted to tout that line. Because before the President gave his speech, they released excerpts, just a few from the speech. One of the three was that line about the Supreme Court and reproductive rights. It was noteworthy that they were trying to emphasize that ahead of time, but I do agree that it hasn't gotten that same attention. I think that's part of the reason there.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener writes, "GOP response seem fake and I kept waiting for the line, 'Live from New York. It's Saturday night.'" [laughs] We're going to continue in a minute with Tyler Pager, White House correspondent for The Washington Post. When we come back, we're going to get Tyler Pager. I apologize. We'll get into the new policy proposals from Biden last night and Biden on the Middle East last night. Stay with us.

[MUSIC - Marden Hill: Hijack]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC with excerpts from and your reactions to President Biden's State of the Union address with Tyler Pager, Washington Post White House correspondent. Few more listeners are texting in response to the other listener who said the Republicans never stood during the whole piece with other examples. One is that they stood many of them when he mentioned Israel. Let's get to that part of the speech on the Middle East. Here's Biden like I would say most people have never heard him before. I think it's fair to say.

President Biden: Israel must do its part.

[applause]

President Biden: Israel must allow more aid into Gaza and ensure humanitarian workers aren't caught in the crossfire.

[applause]

President Biden: They're announcing they're going to have a crossing in Northern Gaza. To the leadership of Israel, I say this. Humanitarian assistance cannot be a secondary consideration or a bargaining chip. Protecting and saving innocent lives has to be a priority. As we look to the future, the only real solution to the situation is a two-state solution over time.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: President Biden last night. Tyler, was it about what you were expecting on Israel and Gaza?

Tyler Pager: Yes, I think we've seen that escalation of rhetoric from Biden in recent weeks announcing a new policy about trying to get more humanitarian aid into Gaza and being slightly more critical of Israel for not allowing more aid to get in, but also balancing that with his long-standing support of Israel, framing it in the context of what the Hamas attacks on October 7th and the remaining hostages in his work to try to get a deal done.

I think, obviously, the backdrop here is that the President expressed just about a week ago that he had some optimism that a deal for a six-week ceasefire and the release of some of the hostages was close. Obviously, that has not manifested and does not appear to be close ahead of the deadline of Ramadan that they had set. There was not as much for the President to tout and sell on this issue, but rather trying to be more critical of Israel.

Also, one of the criticisms we've heard from Democratic voters and leaders is that they feel the President has not expressed enough empathy for the plight of the Palestinian people, innocent women and children, most of the 30,000 that have been killed as part of this ongoing war. We heard a little bit more from Biden on that last night. I don't think that's going to be enough to mollify those voters that have been voting uncommitted in primaries around the country expressing their extreme disapproval with his handling of it, but I do think that some people pointed that out as heading in the right direction.

Brian Lehrer: That was aimed politically speaking certainly at a lot of the more progressive members of the Democratic electorate. Generationally, everybody's talked about how younger Democrats are much more alienated by Biden's approach to the war than older Democrats who have a certain historical view of Israel that younger people have not grown up with. As some people have put it, older people grew up with Israel being David. Younger people have grown up with Israel being Goliath.

Listener writes, "Biden's fiery speech almost reconciled me with voting for him, but his position on the Israeli war on Gazans," as this listener calls it, "was not reassuring despite the new aid he's about to send to the Gaza coast." Can you put that in political terms? Of course, we have to talk about it in pure humanitarian terms, pure ethical terms. I don't know what Biden actually believes. Politically speaking, what was he trying to do there with respect to the campaign?

Tyler Pager: Yes, this is an issue that is clearly having an impact on his political support. We saw that in Michigan where he won the primary by a resounding amount, but more than 100,000 people voted uncommitted. Basically, a protest vote against the President. Michigan being one of the must-win states for the President to secure reelection has one of the largest population of Arab American and Muslim American. I've been to Michigan.

My colleagues have been to Michigan reporting on the erosion of support for the President because of his staunch support of Israel and the continued funding or the sending of weapons from the US to Israel that are being used in this ongoing military campaign. It's a big problem for the President. We've seen that play out not just in Michigan, but in other states, with his support among younger voters, among communities of color, or constituencies for the President, who he needs to turn out for him to be able to win in November. How this plays out moving forward, I think, remains to be seen.

We're obviously seeing him take a tougher tone on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government, but the conditions have not changed in Gaza. We're continuing to see horrifying images of death and destruction there and Israel saying that they're still pursuing their goal of eliminating Hamas and trying to free the hostages. Biden is sympathetic to that cause. Many Democrats are. Not just Democrats, Republicans, independents, other parts of the Biden coalition. We're trying to see him navigate that issue in real time. We'll see how it plays out. Obviously, there's many months until voters head to the polls in the fall.

Brian Lehrer: Now, we'll get to the new policy proposals in the speech, something the State of the Union is usually partly about, much less so in this uniquely campaign-oriented speech. This pier off the sea or off the coast of Gaza that Biden says he's going to have the US military build to get more humanitarian aid in. Is it clear to you what that actually is or how quickly it's going to get up or how much aid can actually get in or what the US military's role is? Is it doing this in opposition to Israel? Is Israel green-lighting it? There are a lot of questions there.

Tyler Pager: Yes, there's a lot of questions. Unfortunately, Brian, I don't have a lot of those answers. They just announced it yesterday. I think they're going to try to move as quickly as they can to do so. I don't think it's going to be the salvo that people expect and want it to be, but it's part of the broader effort. We saw those airdrops of food. This is another way to try to improve the conditions for the population. 80% of which has been displaced since Israel started its military campaign. It remains to be seen how quickly and how successful it will be. We do know that the US has sternly criticized Israel for not allowing more aid to get in. This is one of the ways they're trying to work around that.

Brian Lehrer: Will Israel, if you know, have the ability to go through whatever aid is coming by sea under the auspices of the United States military? Israel says one of the reasons that more aid hasn't been getting in on land is that they look at every piece to make sure that it's not military for Hamas and try to do things to make sure that the aid isn't looted. Is Israel going to be in control of that or is the United States?

Tyler Pager: That's a great question. I do know that the US is working with partners in the region to get the aid there. I don't know exactly the setup of this new pier that they're constructing to try to surge more aid into Gaza.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Housing. What did the President propose?

Tyler Pager: The President is trying to lower housing costs. This is part of a broader agenda about reducing costs and didn't spend a ton of time. As you mentioned, we don't usually hear the President talk about housing in the State of the Union. As you said, we usually hear that from state and local leaders. I do know I've met with multiple governors when they were here last month for meetings with the President. Housing was a top priority for many of them, saying that that is a huge reason why people don't feel the economic progress that the President is eager to tout. A job growth and unemployment rate down, GDP growing, but people's everyday lives, they're not feeling that impact. Housing is one of the areas that we're trying to address to lower costs.

Brian Lehrer: Nothing that I heard for renters, but specifically something for people who want to buy a home and are having trouble affording it because of the interest rates. As you write it up, Biden proposed a temporary $400-per-month tax credit that could be put toward mortgages to help Americans enter the housing market or buy a bigger home. Of course, that's how people calculate the affordability of buying a home. What's the monthly outlay going to be for the mortgage, including the interest and other things? He's trying to take $400 a month off that nut.

Tyler Pager: Right. That is part of this effort to try to reduce costs. It was applauded by housing experts. My colleagues talked to one who said, "This plan is the most consequential set of housing recommendations in the State of the Union in over 50 years." I say that because I've looked them all up. That's David Dworkin, the chief executive officer of the National Housing Conference and a former Treasury Department official. It's clear.

As you said, these policies were largely for first-time homebuyers trying to address housing unaffordability crisis, but not as much on renting. Earlier this year, the White House introduced actions to protect tenants and make renting more affordable, including a blueprint for renters' bill of rights. Not a binding, but sort of a clear guideline to help renters stay in affordable housing. They're trying to tackle this from multiple areas. On the State of the Union, obviously, it's significant that they devoted time to housing. As you mentioned, just for homebuyers.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, Biden got populist when he was talking about taxes. He proposed increasing the corporate minimum tax, which Democrats created in 2022. You remind us in your article and said it, 15%. A 15% minimum corporate tax and Biden proposed raising it to 21%.

Tyler Pager: Yes. This is something we've seen Biden move even more aggressively on in recent years. As he mentioned last night, he represented the state of Delaware, the most corporate state in the union for 36 years. This is part of a continuation of him being pushed to the left on some of these tax policies. He really was quite energetic when discussing this last night, vowing to raise taxes on wealthy Americans and large corporations. This is something he's been trying to push for.

These are favored policies of the left wing of the Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, who have been pushing for these sorts of policies for quite some time. Biden has championed them as president. Obviously, with the current makeup in the Congress, Republicans controlling the House and Democrats only narrowly controlling the Senate a long shot there, but part of a continued messaging effort, as you said, for Biden to appeal to not just the left wing of the party, but to that populist sense.

Brian Lehrer: Right. That's one of the strains of debate that we are sure to hear between now and November. The Republicans say they're critical of corporate America because they have too many diversity and inclusion programs. The Democrats say they're critical of corporate America because they don't pay their fair share in taxes. Those companies that make a lot of money. There, we leave it with Tyler Pager, Washington Post White House correspondent, breaking down the State of the Union address and taking your comments with me. Thank you very, very much.

Tyler Pager: Thanks so much for having me, Brian.

 

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