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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. In this era of tugs of war over voting rights, many New Yorkers are still in shock over the Election Day defeat of two voting rights measures that were on the ballot statewide: one for same-day or almost same-day voter registration, the other, to make permanent your right to vote by mail which people have had temporarily for the pandemic. Republicans successfully mobilized to defeat both proposals even in blue New York.

Beyond that, we have in New York, a very dysfunctional board of election system. An editorial in the Daily News called boards of elections across the state, one of the last true bastions of raw political patronage and nepotism in government, simultaneously untouchable and dysfunctional. Problems with the state and local boards of elections have been well documented.

Remember the tabulation era error that accidentally counted more than 130,000 sample ballots in the mayoral primary, and they had to redo that count? Well, this week, the New York State Senate, the Elections Committee, in particular, has released a report detailing the failures of the Board of Elections with recommendations for structural reforms. With me now, State Senator, Zellnor Myrie, who represents Central Brooklyn. He's chair of the Elections Committee in the State Senate. We'll talk about the voting rights defeats, as well as Board of Elections reform and other issues too. He's been physically threatened over the vaccine mandate, for example. Senator Myrie, glad to have you on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Senator Zellnor Myrie: Always good to be with you, Brian.

Brian: First, on the voting rights defeats at the polls, are you shocked by that and what happened?

Senator Myrie: This should worry every single person that cares about the expansion of our constitutional right to vote. This is something that I think had many sources, but we should objectively call it what it is, and that was a failure by our state Democratic Party. These are propositions that New Yorkers demonstrated by way of their vote that they didn't want, but if history was any indication, it would tell us that they would.

Many people use absentee ballots so much so that the participation rate increased in the universe of 400% during the pandemic because it was easy to utilize. The fact that these failed, it's a five-alarm fire when voting rights are under attack across the country and we're right here in New York where we profess to be the progressive capital of the nation, we couldn't get them across the finish line.

Brian: Republicans wanted to defeat this measure presumably because they saw Democrats were voting a lot more by mail during the pandemic than Republicans were. Why do you think Democrats vote more by mail than Republicans?

Senator Myrie: I can't say precisely why, but I think that it's not just Democrats that utilize absentee ballot voting. We should know that many states across the country have been using no-excuse absentee voting for quite some time. New York is actually at the bottom of the list when it comes to this sort of expansion, and these are in states that we don't necessarily consider liberal bastions like Virginia. I think that people, as they get more accustomed to no-excuse absentee voting, my hope is that we can extend some of the emergency provisions that we had during the pandemic. I think it will become clear that this is the best way for us to utilize that option.

Brian: One theory about why Republicans voted less during the pandemic or the pandemic is still going on but have been voting less by mail than Democrats is, more Republicans have been convinced that the pandemic is fake or at least fake on some level. Is there a next step on enfranchisement, disenfranchisement activism in New York generally, after this?

Senator Myrie: Brian, I am, frankly worried about our level of comfort with the state of voting rights here in New York. I think many people were energized after Donald Trump was elected president. I had the honor of being elected in the first election post-2016 and then we got comfortable. We saw that Joe Biden became president and people said, "Well, let me go back to brunch now and not stay as involved."

What we have seen since then has been a violent insurrection in our capital and a slow burn insurrection in state capitals across the country. There have been movements to restrict the franchise passed and signed by legislators and governors across the nation, and then right here in New York, we saw voter-friendly common-sense propositions fog. I believe that this is a pivotal moment for voting rights in this state and anyone that cares about this should be standing up raising their hand and saying, "How can I help advance the ball?"

Brian: Listeners, if you have a question or comment about voting rights in New York State or nationally for State Senator, Zellnor Myrie, who's chair of the Senate Elections Committee, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. All right. On your report on the Board of Elections, do you want to start by listing off some of the reforms you recommend in this report and why they're necessary? Because I think once we say Board of Elections, people's eyes start glazing over. They think about their second favorite radio station, things like that and they say, "Well, okay, I know I can vote. This doesn't matter to me." Why does this matter to them?

Senator Myrie: The president just signed, I believe, earlier this week, a big infrastructure bill and I think we rightfully celebrated that because all of us intuitively understand that the soundness of our roads, our tunnels, our bridges are important. While democracy is the infrastructure on which the rest of our society is built, all of the policy decisions, they flow from our ability to choose our leaders, and that actual infrastructure, how we administer that democracy, is our Board of Elections. We thought it was very important for us to examine our democratic infrastructure to ensure that the credibility of the institution remains and that the integrity is upheld.

A number of recommendations were put forward in our report. I want to give a huge shout-out to my staff that played an integral role in allowing us to put this forward. On the New York City Board of Elections, we've recommended that there be a reduction in the amount of commissioners. New York's is anomalous in that structure in that we have 10 commissioners as opposed to other jurisdictions of this size. We recommend that we decoupled the political parties' appointment authority for these commissioners. Many people don't appreciate that our commissioners don't necessarily have to answer to anyone at the board and that their appointment was done by way of political influence.

We also think that the hiring process should be more transparent that there may, in some instances, require public hearings on who gets appointed as a commissioner or senior staff member. Then really thinking through what accountability looks like currently, our State Board of Elections does not serve as an oversight agency and so you don't know who you can complain to when things go wrong. We suggest that there'd be a change in the relationship between the state board and the local boards of elections.

Brian: Here's a line that appears in your State Senate Elections Committee report. "The message is clear. Without aggressive action to reform our elections in a full-throated defense of voting rights, opponents of expanding democracy can and will prevail." That makes it sound like even in New York, the momentum swings in the direction of opponents of voting rights from time to time, as it did on those votes. Would a functional board of election system help fight disenfranchisement? Because I'm thinking of another story from a few years ago. I think this was a little before you were in the State Senate.

Our reporter Brigid Bergin realized after the 2016 Democratic presidential primary that many thousands of voters in Brooklyn had been kicked off the rolls because they hadn't voted in a while mostly. They were people who should have been eligible to vote and so there was something-- I don't think anybody thinks it was an intentional act of disenfranchisement trying to stop thousands of people in Brooklyn from voting, but it was definitely Board of Elections dysfunction or outdated rules. Were you aware of that and how does something like that play into voting rights and enfranchisement generally?

Senator Myrie: Brian, I think that's the perfect example of what the implications of a well-run board of elections has. Shout out to Brigid for her intrepid reporting and she continues to be at the forefront of this reporting. The purge was an unfortunate example of what happens when you have good intention employees, which I believe many of our Board of Elections' workers are, trapped in a system that allows for incompetence and mistakes to flourish.

There are both functional and philosophical implications to poorly run elections. Functional by way of what you just demonstrated, purging on the voter rolls, absentee ballots going to the wrong individuals. Then the philosophical component is that if you were watching this, the credibility of the institution is undermined. Folks may remember that our former president cited the mistake that happened in the New York City elections as an example for why our elections are fraudulent. Now, many of your listeners, the smartest listeners in the business know, that that is completely untethered from reality, but it does allow for them to make these claims. It's why it's important for us to get this right and to get it right the first time.

There's also a customer service component to this as well. I've worked in retail for a long time in college and I happened to be the customer service manager at Old Navy. Our biggest thing was to ensure that any interaction that we had was a positive one because we want that person to return. In our democracy, if you were having a bad experience, even if you care about the issues, but you have a bad interaction with a poll worker or your absentee ballot comes in wrong, or you don't know who to call to find your polling site, you're not going to engage in that system again.

It's important not just for us to make sure we get the elections right, but we need to increase our participation. New York, unfortunately, still is on the bottom half of voter participation rates. My goal, as you know, Brian, since assuming the chairmanship, has been to take New York from worse to first. Getting our elections and administered right is a big part of that.

Brian: Here's a good question from a listener via Twitter after those voting rights ballot proposal defeats in New York State. Question is, "Why were voting rights issues put on the ballot in New York State? Why don't the Democrats use their majorities in state government to enact these common-sense voting rights issues, legislatively?" Senator Myrie, why don't you?

Senator Myrie: Great question from the listener. I would say firstly, that since the Democrats assume the majority in the State Senate and under the stewardship of Majority Leader Stewart-Cousins, we've made over are 80 changes to the election law. Many of those have been well received. One of them, I had the honor of sponsoring, early voting. We have utilized the power that we have, but there are certain changes to the law that require us to amend the constitution and the constitutional amendment process requires us to put these on the ballot.

The changes that failed a couple of weeks ago, these were amendments to the constitution on same-day registration and no excuse ballots that required us to pass it in consecutive legislatures and then to put it on the ballot. Anything that requires that change is going to be a longer process. I think understandably so, making a change to the constitution is a very material change to our laws. When we can do it by statute we have, we've done it at a rapid pace, and we'll continue to try to do that going forward.

Brian: We're getting a critical mass of callers saying one thing about voting against these ballot measures on Election Day. I'm going to take one caller to represent them, and I'm going to pick Ruth in Manhattan. Ruth, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Ruth: Hey, Brian. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. I had to call in today because several times you've said the same thing and I think you're giving way too much credit to the Republicans. I'm a far-left Democrat and I voted against those two measures and I probably shot myself in the foot. The reason is I think the Democrats or whoever wrote these amendments or these referendums, they worded it incorrectly. I don't believe in same-day registration. I'm fine with a week before, a day before, but not the same day. They said same-day or less than same-day, but which one is it? I want to vote on a specific thing.

Brian: Right, it was like same-day or less than 10 days. What about the mail-in ballot rights? Did you vote against that one too?

Ruth: I did. Again, as I said, I'm probably shooting myself in the foot, but the reason for me personally is because I believe that not only is voting a right, but it is a privilege. If you can't get your fat butt off the couch to go vote-- I think you have to make an effort. I don't think it should be limited to illness and being out of the state or something, but I think you should still have to give a reason. I just do. I think you have to make an effort and if you can't make that effort then you almost don't deserve to vote. [crosstalk]

Brian: Why should it? Personally, I would disagree with that. Why should it take an effort?

Ruth: Because it's so important.

Brian: Why shouldn't it be just as easy as possible?

Ruth: If you're not going to put the effort in--

Brian: Go ahead.

Ruth: I just feel that that means you're not putting any interest or effort into why you're voting. You're just, "Oh, okay, if I can just do it for my living room, I'll do it, but otherwise, I'm not going to care about voting." I think it just makes it way too unimportant then to the person who's doing the voting.

Brian: All right. Ruth, thank you so much. Senator Myrie, do you want to address that particular issue?

Senator Myrie: Yes. Ruth, first let me say thank you for calling and for expressing those views. I think I probably disagree on the substance, but I will say to your first point that the language was not reader-friendly. This is a conversation that I think me and my colleagues are going to be having going forward. My understanding is that the State Board of Elections is charged with the actual writing of the propositions. There might be a way for us to consider whether that is the right way to go forward. I think that they should be much easier to read, that anyone should be able to understand what is being asked of them. I'm not sure that that was the case with these propositions.

I think that there are a lot of folks who share Ruth's appreciation for the franchise and how special it is. It's a constitutional right, and so we should have a special appreciation for the process. I would only say to that that even with that appreciation, we still have incredibly low voter participation rates as compared to the rest of the country and as compared to larger democracies across the world. Even during a really robust election, we'll see only 35% of eligible voters come out to vote. These are to decide how you live your life: your garbage, your schools, your criminal justice policies, your housing, and we're still at the bottom of the barrel.

My philosophy is that we should be making it easier within our legal parameters and we should be encouraging many people to vote. We are coming up on the holiday season. Many of us will be doing late shopping. I know the supply chain may change some of those practices, but many of us have become accustomed to going shopping for Thanksgiving or for Christmas or for the other holidays too late. I think that if you're able to buy a turkey the day before Thanksgiving, then you certainly should have the ability to register to vote if you're eligible and participate in your democracy.

Brian: Ruth, thank you again for your call. Really, Ruth didn't represent all the callers in the group that I thought she was going to because Ruth really read those propositions and made considered decisions about them even if you or I disagree with what you came to. What I'm seeing from some of the other callers is that they were just confusing. They just weren't well written. People came in confused and they left confused and maybe weren't even sure in every case what exactly they were voting no on.

Senator Myrie: I think that's exactly right, Brian. We have a job to do to make it much more clear what people are voting on because then you get into what we've heard from callers and what I've heard anecdotally as well, was that they were too long, that they were too confusing. That leads, I think, to allowing the folks who don't agree with it on the substance or for nefarious reasons to let misinformation flourish. I think we saw some of that as well.

Brian: We've got a minute left in the segment. Senator Myrie, for you as a progressive in the State Senate, did we see in this election, the limits of the progressive swing in New York City and New York State considering how many people voted Republican apparently on issues like bail reform and gifted and talented programs, and perhaps the Republican push against voting rights too?

Senator Myrie: There were certainly big losses that we took, but not the least of which were the propositions. We saw a couple of losses and DA races and county executive races but there were also, I think, some positive spots for us. The Monroe County Legislature was flipped to democratic control for the first time. There's a supermajority in the Ulster County Legislature for the first time.

Democrats won the Dutchess County comptroller race, the Columbia County Sheriff's race, we saw the Westchester County Democratic executive win his race as well. I think many of those Democrats ran on the record that we have put out thus far. I don't think this was a repudiation of progressive politics. I think that we have not organized in certain places the way that we should. I think that there is a national element to this as well.

Anytime in this country, we have made progress, and certainly progressive progress there have been a backlash. This goes back to the founding of our country. We know that it's coming, we know that in some respects, it is already here. I think that we need to continue to energize the base, but also appreciate that we are a big tent party, that not everyone subscribes to one particular approach to how we help people in the State of New York. I think that we have done a good job at incorporating those voices in our policies. I look forward to us doing so and for us to really as a party, get to the organizing. Door to door wins the war, as we say, and if we don't do that, we will allow for opponents of progressive policies to continue to be successful.

Brian: State Senator Zellnor Myrie, chair of the Senate Elections Committee, and from his district in Central Brooklyn. We always appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Senator Myrie: Thanks so much, Brian.

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