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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. New year, new governor. Yesterday afternoon, Governor Kathy Hochul delivered her first State of the State Address and she hopes it won't be her last. She began her speech by establishing that this is a very different administration. Now, while she didn't name her predecessor, Governor Andrew Cuomo, she did say this.

Governor Kathy Hochul: The days of governors disregarding the rightful role of this legislature are over. The days of the governor of New York and the mayor of New York City wasting time on petty rivalries are over. The days of New Yorkers questioning whether their government is actually working for them are over.

Brian: We'll hear more excerpts as we go and talk about policy proposals ranging from college tuition assistance for incarcerated New Yorkers for the first time in 30 years, that was undone when George Pataki was governor, to a new rail line proposal to connect Brooklyn and Queens and much more. Joining me now is Jon Campbell, our brand new Albany reporter for WNYC and Gothamist, formerly with the USA Today Network covering Albany. Welcome to the station, Jon, and welcome to the show. I've already been enjoying some of your reporting on Gothamist.

Jon Campbell: Hey, thank you very much for having me, Brian.

Brian: Before we get to policy, how else did Hochul say without mentioning his name, "I am not Andrew Cuomo"?

Jon: [laughs] Well, you heard most of it there in the clip you just played and that was right at the beginning of the speech. It is very clear that she was using this speech. She tried to differentiate herself from Andrew Cuomo. You're right. She never once mentioned his name, but she didn't really have to. She made very clear reference to the battles that Andrew Cuomo used to have with Bill de Blasio. She made very clear reference to the battles that he had with the legislature. That's one area where Kathy Hochul is really trying to chart her own path and make herself a more collaborative governor than perhaps Andrew Cuomo was.

Brian: That one actually made me cringe a little bit. Aren't the different branches of government supposed to hold each other in check to some degree? If she says, "I am going to cooperate with the legislature," or maybe it's worse if it's the other way. If the legislature just says, "We're going to do what the governor wants," that's not really how we want democracy to work, is it?

Jon: They call it checks and balances for a reason, right? Absolutely. You don't want the two branches to be too cozy together. I think there was a general sense during the Cuomo time that perhaps he was too combative. Perhaps he was too much of a "steamroller," to borrow a phrase from Eliot Spitzer there. I think there's a general sense in the legislature that they want to work together on initiatives rather than, say, battle for credit. I think that's more what she's trying to go for here. Inevitably, there will be times of tension. There will be times of stress between the two branches. That, ultimately, can be a good thing because that's how the system is set up.

Brian: Governor Hochul alluded to her predecessor by announcing two government ethics proposals, one for term-limiting state lawmakers. You can run for governor and get elected as many times in a row as the voters will have you currently, and another to overhaul the government watchdog, the Joint Commission on Public Ethics or JCOPE. Let's take a listen to a bit of Kathy Hochul on those things.

Governor Hochul: We are submitting a proposal to the legislature to enact two term limits for statewide officials. For government to work, those of us in power cannot continue to cling to it. We need to continually pass the baton to new leaders with different perspectives and fresh ideas. Our reforms include a ban on outside income for statewide officials because our only job should be to serve the people of New York, but that's not the only part of the system that's not working.

It's no secret that recent events have called into question the effectiveness of the Joint Commission on Public Ethics, JCOPE. I will introduce legislation to replace that commission with a new ethics enforcement watchdog. One with real teeth, one that answers to New Yorkers and not politicians.

Brian: Jon, let's take the two-term limit on statewide elected officials first. To be clear, this would only apply, I guess, to three positions or four. Governor, lieutenant governor, state controller, and state attorney general, not to members of the lead legislature, is that correct?

Jon: Yes, that's absolutely correct and that's by no coincidence. It's ultimately up to the legislature to pass this proposal. It would have to be a constitutional amendment. Actually, Kathy Hochul would have no real formal role in that. To pass a constitutional amendment in New York, it has to be passed by consecutively elected sessions of the state legislature, and then it would be put to a statewide referendum. That's a multi-year process. The absolute earliest that could happen is 2023.

By not including the legislature in that proposal, she's improving the chances of passage certainly in the assembly. Carl Heastie, the assembly speaker, has raised concern about term limits in the past. It's also by Hochul putting this forward, she doesn't have a formal role in the process, but she is signaling to the legislature, "It's okay if you want to do this to me, to the lieutenant governor, to the attorney general, to the controller." That's really why she went that direction.

Brian: I'm seeing this as a political play to Democrats who were disgusted with Andrew Cuomo by now as Hochul tries to run for the Democratic nomination for governor, just trying to ride that disgust with Cuomo rather than necessarily a good government argument about term limits. Because as you probably know, term limits traditionally is a Republican or conservative weapon, Michael Bloomberg, notwithstanding, in that they have long tried to get it enacted in Congress when the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives for so many years like from Roosevelt to Newt Gingrich, and so it was used for that reason.

It's traditionally to get Democrats who are being elected over and over again by their voters out of power. When you look at the gubernatorial elections in New York State in recent times, Andrew Cuomo was elected three times, Mario Cuomo was elected three times, George Pataki was elected three times. There's an argument that says, why take that choice away from the voters? How should we see this Hochul play? I'm a little cynical about it.

Jon: Well, cynicism is always welcome in Albany, I'd say, and necessary in Albany. In this case, Kathy Hochul is up for election in 2022. She has not gone before the voters as a gubernatorial candidate before. Term limits, if you ask people on the street whether they like term limits, it is something that is generally--

Brian: They're for it.

Jon: They're for it.

Brian: Popular, right.

Jon: It's a populous position. It is one that she understands that it is something that would be popular with voters and it's also not a slam dunk in the legislature. She gets credit either way here with voters on this. She can say she's for term limits, something that polls very well, that is very popular with people. You're absolutely right. It is a jab at Cuomo in the sense that it's a jab at dynastic politics, right?

Andrew Cuomo, son of a governor. He was going to run for as many terms as he wanted to. He was talking about running for a fourth term. It's a jab at Cuomo in that sense. I don't know that it's a direct jab at him. Like I said, term limits are generally popular with voters. She's up for election. You can do the math there.

Brian: I'm not taking position against term limits or for it, just saying how it's been used politically in the past. Certainly, they're popular in New York City. There was referendum in the city and then another one to reaffirm it. The voters obviously overwhelmingly democratic and, by and large, liberal voters in the five boroughs of New York City who reaffirm term limits. We see some of the fruits of it right now with the majority new city council coming in because of term limits.

Then people will argue either this forced a lot of inexperienced people into positions of power that they're not necessarily ready for and forced a lot of experienced people out, or it's a fresh breeze blowing and it's a good thing, so, all right, term limits. Let's get into some public policy next. The governor also introduced a new affordable housing plan. Let's take a listen to about 15 seconds of her on that.

Governor Hochul: Housing prices have also continued to escalate that possibility out of the reach of many, worsening the situation even more. That's why I'm launching a new five-year housing plan to create and preserve 100,000 affordable homes.

Brian: She went on to say, those would include 10,000 units with supportive services for high-risk populations, "like runaway youth and formerly incarcerated individuals," but 100,000 over 5 years, in a way, Jon, it doesn't sound like that much, right? De Blasio just finished with what was a 200,000 goal. That was over eight years. Bloomberg had a similar goal for him. How do we hear 100,000 units of affordable housing over 5 years?

Jon: This isn't just in New York City either. This is across the state. This is in urban and rural areas across the state. What I would say about that is we don't have hardly any details about this plan yet. The way it works in Albany is you get your State of the State in the beginning of January, and then two weeks later, the governor has to deliver the state budget. The State of the State ends up being broad themes. The budget's really where you learn how things are going to work and, more importantly, how they're going to pay for it.

This is one of those items where we hardly got any details at all. She said 100,000 units, new or preserved. How many of those are going to be new? How many are preserved? Her briefing book said that there's going to be various funds to pay for this. We don't know which funds. Those are some of the details that we should get in her budget address, which we're anticipating for January 18th. That's by the state constitution, the last day she has to submit--

Brian: Certainly, what there's a desperate need for in New York is the supportive services is housing that come with supportive services as she mentioned for people who are at risk of homelessness, so good that there's 10,000 units anyway designated specifically for that. She also mentioned converting current hotel and office space to housing. Does that mean Hochul doesn't expect full recovery of tourism and in-person office work after the pandemic?

Jon: We've gotten mixed messages from her on that last October, last November. She said pretty forcefully that she wanted to return people to the office, that it was time to come back to the office. She set a date where she wanted people to come back and then that got blown to pieces by the Omicron variant. Now, you have this proposal. Actually, this plan is a carryover from the Cuomo administration. They were pushing the conversion of old hotels and office spaces to housing. I think it's more a recognition of the reality, right?

The pandemic has forever changed in-person work. It really opened our eyes or, more importantly, our employers' eyes to remote work. There's going to be changes there, right? The idea here is to get ahead of that, I think, but you could argue, yes, that it's an implicit acknowledgment that maybe there won't be a full recovery of in-person work. Like I said, that's been mixed messages from Hochul because, at previous times, she's been pretty forceful about getting people back to the office.

Brian: Listeners, any reactions to Governor Hochul's State of the State Address? Did you hear it yesterday? Did you watch it on TV? Have you heard or read excerpts from it and have any reactions to the policy positions, especially the policy positions or anything else that was in the speech, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet at @BrianLehrer with our Albany correspondent, Jon Campbell. Just one other thing about housing. She did not commit to extending the eviction moratorium, which expires on January 15th. Advocates are disappointed, considering the ongoing 9% unemployment rate. Are there any updates regarding the moratorium as it's just days away from its expiration date?

Jon: Yes, you're right. The eviction moratorium is set to expire on January 15th. Tenant advocates have really been preparing since late last year for it to expire. It's been extended twice to this point. There was a period before Omicron where things were looking to die down a little bit. Now, we have the Omicron variant. There are people, tenant advocates, and progressive lawmakers that are going to be pushing to extend that again.

They're going to be arguing that this is not the time to throw people out on the street even if that eviction moratorium has been in place for almost two years now. The city, the non-profit news outlet, they reported on Tuesday that Hochul had been signaling to lawmakers that she wants to let it expire. Over the next nine days here, there's going to be a push from progressive lawmakers to try to get her to reconsider.

Brian: Or to put in something else like the just cause eviction bill, which would practically create a rent stabilization system statewide even in what's now market-rate units, right?

Jon: Right. That's another thing that she did not mention at all during the speech. We don't know where she stands on the just cause eviction. That's another one that progressive lawmakers, tenant advocates have been pushing for a long time in Albany and are really going to make a concerted effort to push for this year.

Brian: Moving on to infrastructure, let's take a listen to a few announcements regarding several updates to existing transit hubs and also a brand new proposal.

Governor Hochul: We'll deliver long-overdue upgrades in both LaGuardia and JFK airports and finish the Second Avenue Subway to connect East Harlem to jobs, but we're just getting started. Today, I'm announcing a bold idea. Take an old, unused 14-mile long right-of-way and create what we're calling the Inter-Borough Express, a new rail service that'll connect Brooklyn and Queens. I'm directing the MTA to immediately commence an environmental review so we can get that project rolling down the track.

Brian: Talk to me, Jon, about the Brooklyn-Queens Inter-Borough rail proposal. I guess I'd start here. How does that differ from Mayor de Blasio's failed BQX, which was going to be light rail along the Brooklyn/Queens Waterfront but was widely derided as just an SOP to business and gentrification?

Jon: There's a couple of differences. One, Hochul's plan is going from Bay Ridge to Astoria. De Blasio's plan was like Red Hook to Astoria. Hochul's is a little further. It's like 14 miles versus 11 miles. I believe de Blasio's was more of a streetcar proposal where Hochul didn't really commit to what type of rail there, whether it's a subway line essentially or a light rail or even bus rapid transit. There are some differences there.

Hochul would use an existing freight line that has gone dormant essentially, but it's similar in a sense in that you're trying to connect Brooklyn and Queens by rail along the waterfront area there. It's an area where we always had this debate with Governor Cuomo about who controls the MTA. Well, now, you've got Hochul coming in, proposing a big MTA project here. This is something that would take multiple years to complete. It's something that would be in the-- she's essentially telling them to do an environmental review. That's a very first step in a long process. It's a ways away.

Brian: Let's finish on this. There was some news for restaurants in the speech, and not just for restaurants but also for people who don't want to have to sit in restaurants to get drinks, during the pandemic at least, but apparently beyond the pandemic. Because as our colleague Gwynne Hogan reported on Gothamist, it is for to-go drinks, which were allowed at the beginning of the pandemic, now are not allowed, to be allowed again permanently to be sold by restaurants. Let's take a listen to a little bit of what the governor had to say about that.

Governor Hochul: Thousands of bars and restaurants, the soul of our neighborhoods, have had to close. For others hanging on by a thread, survival depends on whether they can create more space outdoors, a tough task during our New York winters. To help offset these costs, we'll provide a tax credit for COVID-related purchases like outdoor heating and seating. We're also going to do something our bars and restaurants have been asking for to, once again, allow the sale of to-go drinks, a critical revenue stream during the lean times last year. Cheers, New York.

Brian: Cheers, New York. Jon, I don't know if, as you were covering the speech yesterday, you were watching the notifications go by from the tabloids and other news organizations, but here's Governor Hochul talking about all these weighty things, housing and homelessness, ethics, transportation, and infrastructure. It was when she mentioned to-go drinks being legalized that all the media suddenly put out a notification, "Oh, Kathy Hochul says 'to-go drinks'." She obviously made news with that part.

Jon: Yes, in some ways, that almost ended up being the headline proposal in terms of social media chatter and what people are talking about today. That's a commentary however you want to take it. It is something that was popular. We talked about term limits and how that's a popular position with voters. This certainly is too. A lot of people came to really like the to-go cocktails, to-go beverages from restaurants and bars when we were at the height of the first wave of the pandemic.

People were doing a lot of takeout orders and restaurants and bars loved it. They certainly loved it. Liquor stores on the other hand, most certainly, did not like it. They are actually a pretty powerful force in Albany. I would expect them to push back on this. It's something that would need legislative approval. It's not something that Kathy Hochul can do on her own like Andrew Cuomo did when he had special powers during the first wave of the pandemic. You're certainly going to see liquor stores who, for years, have been a powerful force in Albany. They're going to push back on this.

Brian: There, we will leave it with Jon Campbell, who now covers Albany for WNYC and Gothamist. Jon, thanks for coming, look forward to talking to you many times.

Jon: Hey, thanks so much for having me, Brian.

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