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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today on the show, our climate story of the week, the campaign to ban or stop using gasoline-powered leaf blowers. Did you know that California and some local governments, there's at least one in New Jersey now, have already banned them? New York State and other places are considering it. Why changing your type of leaf blower could matter to climate change and to local air pollution too and even maybe, to how infuriatingly noisy they are.

Also, today, we'll put the landmark redistricting decision by the New York State Court of Appeals this week into national context. New York insisting on nonpartisan congressional districts, while Republican states do not, could affect control of Congress in the midterm elections. Is there a path to a single standard, if only one party is going to behave? Our guest, Dave Wasserman is so into this issue, that you know what his Twitter handle is? It's @Redistrict. Here's another one we don't talk about that much up here in New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut, but that could also sway the midterms. You know how Democrats and Republicans tend to take different positions when it comes to COVID protection rules?

In general, Democrats are in favor of more rules, things like vaccine mandates for indoor events and mask mandates on public transportation, while Republicans less so. Well, here's one issue where they flip, an issue that could matter to the midterm elections. It's a rule known as Title 42. Some of you know about this. It's an emergency measure for the pandemic that makes it easier to deport people entering the United States illegally at the southern border. President Trump imposed it, no surprise.

President Biden has kept it, but he plans to end Title 42 next month. It's been horrible for so many migrants who were thrust into really bad conditions in Mexico, rather than wait in this country, while their asylum cases are heard, as happened with more of them before the pandemic. As the Biden administration tries to end pandemic restrictions in general and encourage Americans to manage their risks individually, this is consistent. Problem is the number of migrants crossing over has been increasing and public opinion polls show it's a real voting issue for Republicans and some Independents.

Republicans, of course, want to keep Title 42, anything to make it easier to kick migrants out, a rare case of the GOP wanting tighter COVID rules than the Dems. Politico reported this week that many Democrats in swing districts who are really worried about keeping their seats and keeping their house majority want the White House to slow down and keep Title 42, at least for a while longer. Migration will also be one of the issues in June at the Summit of the Americas taking place in LA, where representatives of the US and other countries in our hemisphere will gather to discuss the biggest issues facing us all, including recovery from the pandemic, economy, climate change, disinformation and democracy and yes, pandemic resilience and yes, migration.

With us now is President Biden's newly appointed Special Advisor for the Summit of the Americas, former Florida Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell. She may be an example of the headwinds that Democrats are up against. She lost her Miami area seat to a Republican in 2020. She was the first immigrant from Ecuador ever to serve in Congress. Let's talk about Title 42 and other topics facing the Summit of the Americas. Congresswoman, great to have you on the show. Welcome to WNYC.

Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell: Good morning, Brian. Thank you so much for having me on this morning.

Brian: Let's talk about Title 42 first, then we'll get into other issues for the summit. Do you have an opinion about whether the Biden administration should keep it in place?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: It's interesting because I've been speaking with so many different stakeholders as it relates to the summit. I can tell you that what we're seeing at the border here in the United States, it's really becoming a problem that is unsustainable. There are mixed emotions, especially from some of my former colleagues in the House of Representatives who have fought arduously for migrant rights and ensuring that we have a safe and orderly policy at the border, while at the same time, protecting human rights for so many that are coming, seeking refuge and asylum. At the same time, we are seeing numbers that we haven't seen in the past decade.

It really is becoming a crisis. It's not just a crisis for the United States, Brian. This is actually an issue that is affecting the entire region. It's a global issue that's affecting countries in Europe and other nations as well. Do I have a personal opinion? I think that President Biden made it clear that, at this point, the courts have said that he cannot lift Title 42 and that's been his statement on the issue.

Brian: The Politico article that I mentioned in the intro is called, "Biden Admin Struggles to Calm Democratic Storm Over Immigration." It describes what it calls an internal rebellion among purple state Democrats. I guess that would include swing districts like yours in Florida, as they worry that immigration issues will contribute to costing them their seats this fall. Do you agree that this is a political vulnerability for retaining Democratic control of the House?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: I don't. I don't, Brian. I think that people are making this a political issue when it really should not be political. I think that all Americans on both sides of the aisle-- I can tell you this, we all agree that we need to have an orderly and safe policy on migration and different countries in Latin America agree that we need to come together in tackling this challenge that we're all having in all of our borders. Like I said, it's not just here. I think the top issue on every American's mind right now, Brian, it's not the migration issue or Title 42.

I can tell you that everywhere, all over America, all over the region, the top issue for people living here in the United States right now is the high cost of living. People are also concerned about their security. There has been a high rate of gun violence in different states in the country. They are concerned that they are not going to be able to make ends meet. Those are the top issues. If Democrats can really focus on sending the message to their constituents, that they are doing everything in their power to control the high rate of inflation, which is top issue for everyone, that they are working on ensuring that people are getting paid what they deserve and their value, so that they can make ends meet, so that they can pay for their rent.

That they're working on controlling some of the skyrocketing prices on housing that we're seeing just here in Miami, for example, and in Florida, it has some of the highest cost of living than any other state in the country, those are the issues that people care about. Those are the issues that they want to hear their representatives talk to them about. "How are you going to be able to make it so that I can work 40 hours a week, 50 if I need to, but let me be able to pay for my bills? Please control the cost of goods and services that I'm consuming. I want to be able to make it." That's the American Dream. That's what I think Democrats need to focus on.

Brian: Why do you think Democrats have a better message on those things than Republicans this year? You're in a position to have an interesting perspective on this because our listeners elsewhere around the country may not realize your congressional district is very swing. You beat a Republican in 2018, a Republican beat you in 2020. What are the issues for that, that may be national, not just local to your district, and how they play out in 2022 as you would argue?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Well, I think that part of the problem is that when you are on the day-to-day legislating in the Capitol-- I'm telling you this, Brian, from my own personal experience. When you're on Capitol Hill and you are working day-to-day on all the different pieces of legislation, sometimes you lose touch on the needs of everyday Americans that are living in your district. This happens to everyone, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. Again, I'm not faulting either side here. People need to step out of their politics internally and start listening to their constituents. When they do and you have a clear message, believe me, voters come to the table to vote for the representatives that are representing them.

That is usually most likely than not Democrats on Capitol Hill. Democrats are the ones that are trying to pass policies that are going to allow women to get back to work and allow families to send their kids to universities or college or technical schools without having to take out two or three loans. Democrats are always standing with the people. They have to remember and come back to that, and at the same, be Present. I can't emphasize enough how much the pandemic really hurt a lot of our races including mine because we were not able to have these large town halls. We weren't able to have these large gatherings, where people see and hear you.

There's a huge issue on spread of disinformation that I've spoken about and it's one of the issues that we're also tackling at the Summit of the Americas, but that's a huge threat to our democracy, to our institutions. We need to also make sure that we are combating all the lies that are being told about us. The Democratic brand has been attacked now by the Republican party for years. A lot of those lies are completely false and we have to start by telling people the truth, being present, combating misinformation. I can assure you that there's still enough time to be able to have a control and discipline message that will relate to the American people that we are working for them.

Brian: Listeners, if you're just joining us my guest is former Florida Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, she has been appointed as President Biden's and the State Department's Special Advisor for the Summit of the Americas, which will take place in June. This happens every three or four years since the 1990s, with all or most of the countries in the Western Hemisphere. We can take some phone calls for her 212-433-WNYC on any issue that could be relevant.

Callers with ties to any country in Latin America or the Caribbean, welcome to call in. What issues do you see for your country of origin that they would want to bring up with the United States or vice versa? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 or tweet @BrianLehrer. Let's dive more explicitly into the summit now and make a segue from what you were just talking about because I see officially, disinformation is listed as one of the issues for the Summit of the Americas, how so?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Well, first of all, let me just give you a brief overview I'm really, really excited to be Special Advisor on the summit. I think it's a huge opportunity for the United States to host the summit it's going to be taking place from June 6th to June 10th in Los Angeles. Our theme is based on building a sustainable, resilient, and equitable future. What I've been hearing from different government leaders and all the different stakeholders is that we need to make sure that we use this opportunity to respond to our region's most pressing issues.

That is, of course, economic recovery after the COVID 19 pandemic, which exposed not just here in the United States, but all over the region the cracks that we have in the health, economic and educational systems. There's an opportunity for us to really work together on dealing with the climate crisis. This is a top issue for Caribbean nations. It really is a matter of national security for them and we have to show that democracy works, that democracy can deliver on providing equitable access to economic growth and incentives that we can really bring about a more equitable social structure for all those communities that have been left behind.

I can tell you that the issue of building upon the importance of democracy and strengthening our democracy, the issue of disinformation goes hand in hand. Global Americans, which is a group that I belong to as well, studied the issue of disinformation in Latin America and found that Russia has been investing a lot of resources and building up their positive image in the region. That is why you're seeing some really concerning remarks from some people here and in the region defending Russia on this terrible aggression against Ukraine because they have been investing resources trying to tell the story that they are the ones that have been the victims of what has been happening in that area.

Disinformation is one of our top threats to protecting our democracy and it's one of the things that we have been discussing with here locally and domestically, with different organizations that have been studying the issue of disinformation. There are a lot of agencies in Latin America and Central America that have been working on this issue of as well. One of the things, and you're going to love this, Brian, but one of the things that I've heard from all these different organizations is that the main thing that we need to do is support good journalism, support local media that is providing the right information to their communities. Yes, this is something that's important to me personally, but it's one of our priorities for the Summit of the Americas.

Brian: Ukraine may not have been the first thing that came to a lot of listeners' minds when we said we're going to talk about the Summit of the Americas. If Russia is having some success as you say in building sympathy across the hemisphere through disinformation, how does that play out to hurt Ukraine or for that matter to hurt the United States? Is it just a matter of public opinion or does it blowback in some way that actually hurts the war effort?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Disinformation, really what it's doing is undermining the citizen's trust in their government, on the media, what we've seen is that it really has had a negative effect on our public health systems. I don't think Russia's winning this war actually on the disinformation effort I think that the images have spoken on their own. I can tell you that what we've seen in Latin America and Central America is that those countries, those governments are standing solidly with the United States against Russia and the vote that we had in the Organization of American states showed that.

We are very much united in that effort and which is why I think that this summit is going to be critical, it comes at a critical time where we're really strengthening the ties that we have with our allies in the region so that we can really build this wall against all the efforts by Russia and other bad actors in trying to undermine our democratic institutions here.

Brian: Edison in Manhattan you're on WNYC with former Florida Congresswoman and now Special Advisor to the State Department for the Summit of the Americas, Debbie Mucarsel-Powell. Hi, Edison.

Edison: Brian I love your show very nice.

Brian: Thank you sir.

Edison: I am from Brazil. I am concerned about deforestation in Amazonia in Mato Grosso and not only Brazil, but many countries in Latin America. How do we pressure big companies, big countries like Brazil to stop the burning? If we want to get to zero emissions, one of them is to capture some of the carbon in the atmosphere and the plants do it naturally, we do not have to invest, we disinvest in deforestation.

How do small countries that have done it like Costa Rica, how do we get big countries like Brazil to stop burning the plants, the forest? How can we bring this to the table in the Summit of the Americas?

Brian: Thank you for such an important question. Congresswoman is the burning of the Amazon, which we did a separate segment on here on the show just recently in our climate story of the week a couple of weeks ago, is that on the table for the Summit of the Americas?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Oh, absolutely. I can tell you that two of the five integral pillars of the Summit are clean energy transition and building our green future. I like to tell my family that the lungs of the earth are based on the Amazons. That we need to protect the Amazon's now more than ever and that there is political will to accelerate climate action here in the Americas. We saw it in Glasgow at the COP26, where Latin American and Caribbean countries really came out and force on supporting global methane pledge. Just this morning, for example, I was talking with some different financial institutions on how they're going to be providing financing for these countries to lower their carbon emissions, to invest in clean energy.

One of the examples is what is happening in Galapagos, which is based in Ecuador my home country, my native country where I was born. They are expecting that they're going to have a transition to clean energy within the next three years. Absolutely, this is a commitment that the President has, that the Vice President has, she is actually meeting with 15 heads of state and representatives of governments from the Caribbean this afternoon and climate action is at the top of the list of those priorities. One of the conversations that we have is how do we actually address and emphasize our engagement with the different stakeholders in that area, in the forest.

That would include indigenous people that live in the Amazons. How do we support women and girls in the region and other disadvantaged communities that are being affected by the burning of the forests in the Amazon? Climate change adaptation is going to be a huge focus. It is a focus we have been discussing. It will be part of the agreements that we form following like I said the meeting that we had in Glasgow. We are seeing commitments from most of the governments so far that we've been discussing on dealing with these issues. We will have a paper finalized for the summit.

Brian: Edison, thank you for your call on that. Please call us again. Let me flip this though on you, on us really because it's easy for us to sit here in the United States and say, "Ooh, that Bolsonaro, that Brazil look what they're doing? Those companies look what they're doing to the Amazon and the impact on climate change?" The United States as, of course, you know is the overwhelming emitter of greenhouse gases in this hemisphere. The victims of increasing warming tend to be in the global South, the other countries in this hemisphere. What is the United States bringing to the table when our transition for so many environmentalists has been frustratingly slow?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Look, the president from all the conversations that I've had with the administration, with the white house, and with different the federal agencies, his priority is making the necessary investments for us to be able to transition to clean energy. it's really difficult, I think. Look what's happening right now with the high cost of gas prices in the United States, it would be a different story if we weren't so dependent on coal and other forms of energy. This is definitely a commitment that has been established.

There will be significant investments on that. I know as a former House Representative, we have passed in the past and in this session as well, bills that are providing support so that we can start electrifying our roads, providing investments to lower our carbon emission footprint. Like you said, this is going to take personal responsibility as well, corporate responsibility. There are many companies that are trying also to make that transition to lower their carbon emissions, providing incentives for households to depend more on solar. There are a lot of different projects. It's going to take time. It's much more difficult for working families to say, "I'm going to invest on a solar roof."

That is definitely a position of privilege for many Americans here that can afford to do that. We need to find ways on providing also economic incentive for working-class families that can also make that personal transition as well.

Brian: Here's a follow-up on disinformation from a listener on Twitter who asks, "Hsow will you tackle disinformation in Spanish language, radio, TV, Facebook, and YouTube. WhatsApp is a disseminator of disininfo for Latinos," writes this listener.

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Some of the conversations that we've had, first of all, unfortunately, some of these tech companies are not providing the oversight on the spirit of disinformation in Spanish as they have been in English. Some of the things that we found in some of the research that has been done by different organizations is that, for example, Twitter or Facebook or YouTube, pull down some ad or post that is spreading misinformation hurting the health of communities, they do it very quickly in English. It takes them much longer to do it in Spanish or sometimes they don't do it at all.

That's something that we are dealing with and speaking with the different companies on how they can be more prompt on providing oversight on the spread of misinformation. Educating our communities is crucial, ensuring that we're working with different educational and academic institutions that provide support for their students and for their communities on how they can actually discern the information that's being given to them. What is true? What is factual? What is wrong? Where are they getting this information from?

There is an effort which I found very interesting where family members and friends are actually participating with this nonprofit in working in their communities, person to person with individual relationships educating them, and showing them so that they can really identify what type of information is coming to them that's true and what is false. At the end of the day, Brian, what I said at the beginning, I think, it's really important for us to realize that we can't have good and accurate information if we don't have good sources.

Unfortunately, a lot of local papers are shutting down in a lot of rural communities, in other areas. We have to support good journalism. We have to make sure that we protect the freedom of speech of so many journalists here and across the region. We continue to see targets against journalists that are trying to bring out the truth in some of these countries in Latin America. We have to be vigilant on that. It happens more for women journalists than not. That's another issue that we're discussing.

Brian: We're talking, if you're just joining us, with Debbie Mucarsel-Powell former Florida Congresswoman, now appointed as the Special Advisor to President Biden and the State Department for the Summit of the Americas, a meeting every three or four years of countries in this hemisphere. It'll take place in June, in LA first time since the start of the pandemic. We're talking about all kinds of related issues migration, disinformation, climate as you've been hearing.

We started, if you heard the beginning of the segment talking about Democratic and Republican hopes to control the house of representatives coming from a swing district where she beat a Republican in 2018 and lost to a Republican in 2020 Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell, very familiar with those issues migration certainly playing into that. Larry in Manhattan you're on WNYC. Hi, Larry.

Larry: Hello. Hi there, Brian. Hi and good morning to your guest. Before I dive into my point I mentioned to your screener, let me just say this. I can't recall during the Trump administration this summit being held. What I do recall is-- the last one I can recall President Obama was in office and the summit was held in Panama, and he attended and on route to the summit--

Brian: I do believe that the summit just on that fact and then I'll let you continue, Larry. I do believe Congresswoman, correct me if I'm wrong, there was a Summit of the America's under Trump in 2018 correct?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: No. That is incorrect. The last summit was in Lima in Peru in 2018.

Brian: In 2018. Yes. There was one under President Trump?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Yes. In Lima. Yes, in Peru.

Brian: Yes. Larry, go ahead. Sorry.

Larry: Don't worry about it. No, not to take away from the former congresswoman, but I would've imagined given the vexing issue of immigration in hemisphere and that-- especially that President Biden tapped VP Harris to deal with the triangular issue of immigration in America, you'd think that maybe he'll send a higher-level representative in her, but hey it is his decision to make, but my three points I mentioned was the Russian interest in bauxite in my country, Jamaica

Brian: In bauxite?

Larry: Energy-- Yes, the Russians do control around the bauxite industry in Jamaica and their implications here regarding the Ukraine war. I don't need to tell you can think about that and implications here. Secondly, energy, Jamaica most expensive foreign exchange cost is energy/ oil. We have this deal with Petrocaribe in Venezuela, again, the implications of the war in Ukraine in that and also the environmental issue and cost that this will be for Jamaica and all that stuff. Finally, the vexing issue of gun crime violence that is deadly Jamaica just as it is in New York City. For some reason, Jamaica like New York City, we don't make guns have been plagued by gun violence.

Brian: Where are they coming from Larry? Do you have an impression?

Larry: I was going to say most of us in the diaspora here in New York City are of the opinion that it come from United States.

Brian: Larry, thank you for all those points. We have another caller who we're not going to have time to get to Congresswoman, who wanted to center that exact point, US manufactured guns are being used for crime elsewhere in the hemisphere. What would you say to Larry and that caller who we're not going to be able to put on, on that particular issue?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Brian, actually, if you know a little bit about me and the work that I've done, the gun violence issue is very personal to me, I lost my father to gun violence when I was 24 years old.

Brian: Oh, sorry.

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: I've been working on this for quite some time while I was in Congress, and the Judiciary Committee, and even now, with the Giffords team. There has been a study that was released by two different organizations, one by Giffords and one by CAP, that shows that our weak gun laws here in this country, have allowed people to be able to purchase these weapons and then traffic them to Haiti, to US Virgin Islands, to Puerto Rico.

I was at the White House a couple of weeks ago when President Biden announced the nomination of the ATF director, which is such a critical position to really enforce the laws that we already have in place, and one of them is gun trafficking laws. That's something that we have to realize that because we have-- and certain states, some laws providing much more easy access to purchase weapons than other states, one of them being here in Florida. We have to take a look at this issue to protect not just our own security and our families, but also the security of the region.

Brian: To come full circle as we run out of time to the migration issue that we started with, many Republicans argue something like, Title 42 should be US policy anyway, even if they oppose other COVID protections, even if they think COVID is fake because migrants seeking asylum here should have to remain in Mexico anyway, while US authorities decide if they qualify for asylum or other criteria for admission to this country. To Americans who think that sounds like a sensible rule, what would you say to them, and how will you deliver whatever message along these lines to the other countries in the region that don't want this crisis on the Mexican side of the border?

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: I have to say, it's very easy to make an issue that is so complex, so simplistic. This is an extremely-- we've been seeing this issue becoming more and more difficult to deal with for years. One of the things that we're looking at, again, regionally is how do we make it so that families don't leave their home countries because of political persecution, because of violence, because of lack of access to food. There's a huge issue with food insecurity in Central America and other countries like in Venezuela.

We have to work with the entire region to incentivize economic growth, to rebuild our public health systems, to reinforce democratic institutions. Those are the issues that we have to address. I would say to anyone that's really interested in the immigration issue to provide us with their proposals, and we can absolutely look at that, as we continue to discuss with other heads of government in the entire continent that understand that this is going to be a holistic approach from all of us working together.

Brian Lehrer: Former congresswoman from Florida, Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, now Special Advisor for the summit on the Americas, which is coming up in June. Thank you very much for making this one of your pre-summit stops. I enjoyed our conversation and your interaction with the callers.

Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell: Thank you so much, Brian.

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