Brian Lehrer: The Governor making his first live statement since the Attorney General's report. Here he is.

Governor Andrew Cuomo: My lawyers, as you just heard from Rita Glavin, have reviewed the report over the past several days and have already raised serious issues and flaws that should concern all New Yorkers because when there is a bias or a lack of fairness in the justice system, it is a concern for everyone, not just those immediately affected. The most serious allegations made against me had no credible factual basis in the report. There is a difference between alleged improper conduct and concluding sexual harassment. Now, don't get me wrong. This is not to say that there are not 11 women who I truly offended. There are.

For that, I deeply, deeply apologize. I thought a hug and putting my arm around a staff person while taking a picture was friendly, but she found it to be too forward. I kissed a woman on the cheek at a wedding and I thought I was being nice, but she felt that it was too aggressive. I have slipped and called people honey, sweetheart, and darling. I meant it to be endearing, but women found it dated and offensive. I said on national TV to a doctor wearing PPE and giving me a COVID nasal swab, "You make that gown look good." I was joking. Obviously, otherwise, I wouldn't have said it on national TV, but she found it disrespectful.

I take full responsibility for my actions. I have been too familiar with people. My sense of humor can be insensitive and off-putting. I do hug and kiss people casually. Women and men. I have done it all my life. It's who I've been since I can remember. In my mind, I'd never crossed the line with anyone, but I didn't realize the extent to which the line has been redrawn. There are generational and cultural shifts that I just didn't fully appreciate and I should have, no excuses. The report did bring to light a matter that I was not aware of and that I would like to address.

A female trooper relayed a concern that she found disturbing and so do I. Please let me provide some context. The governor's trooper detail had about 65 troopers on it, but of the 65, only 6 women and 9 Black troopers. I'm very proud of the diversity of my administration. It's more diverse than any administration in history and I'm very proud of the fact that I have more women in senior positions than any governor before me. The lack of diversity on the state police detail was an ongoing disappointment for me. In many ways, the governor's detail is the face of state government that people see.

When I attend an event, people see the detail that's with me. I was continuously trying to recruit more to diversify. On one occasion, I met two female troopers who were on duty at an event. Both seemed competent and impressive, and I asked the state police to see if they were interested in joining. I often meet people, men and women, and if they show promise, I refer them to be interviewed. The state police handled the interviewing and the hiring, and one of the two troopers eventually joined the detail. I got to know her over time, and she's a great professional. I would sometimes banter with her when we were in the car.

We spend a lot of time driving around the state. This female trooper was getting married, and I made some jokes about the negative consequences of married life. I meant it to be humorous. She was offended, and she was right. The trooper also said that in an elevator, I touched her back, and when I was walking past her in a doorway, I touched her stomach. Now, I don't recall doing it, but if she said I did it, I believe her. At public events, troopers will often hold doors open or guard the doorways. When I walk past them, I often will give them a grip of the arm, a pat on the face, a touch on the stomach, a slap on the back.

It's my way of saying, I see you, I appreciate you, and I thank you. I'm not comfortable just walking past and ignoring them. Of course, usually, they are male troopers. In this case, I don't remember doing it at all. I didn't do it consciously with a female trooper, I did not mean any sexual connotation, I did not mean any intimacy by it. I just wasn't thinking. It was totally thoughtless in the literal sense of the word, but it was also insensitive. It was embarrassing to her and it was disrespectful. It was a mistake, plain and simple. I have no other words to explain it.

I want to personally apologize to her and her family. I have the greatest respect for her and for the New York State Police. Now, obviously, in a highly political matter like this, there are many agendas and there are many motivations at play. If anyone thought otherwise, they would be naive, and New Yorkers are not naive. I want to thank the women who came forward with sincere complaints. It's not easy to step forward, but you did an important service. You taught me and you taught others an important lesson. Personal boundaries must be expanded and must be protected. I accept full responsibility.

Part of being New York tough is being New York smart. New York smart tells us that this situation and moment are not about the facts. It's not about the truth. It's not about thoughtful analysis. It's not about how do we make the system better. This is about politics. Our political system today is too often driven by the extremes. Rashness has replaced reasonableness. Loudness has replaced soundness. Twitter has become the public square for policy debate. There is an intelligent discussion to be had on gender-based actions, on generational and cultural behavioral differences, on setting higher standards and finding reasonable resolutions, but the political environment is too hot and it is too reactionary for that now, and it is unfortunate.

Now, you know me. I'm a New Yorker, born and bred. I am a fighter and my instinct is to fight through this controversy because I truly believe it is politically motivated. I believe it is unfair and it is untruthful, and I believe it demonizes behavior that is unsustainable for society. If I could communicate the facts through the frenzy, New Yorkers would understand, I believe that, but when I took my oath as governor, then it changed. I became a fighter, but I became a fighter for you, and it is your best interest that I must serve. This situation by its current trajectory will generate months of political and legal controversy.

That is what is going to happen. That is how the political wind is blowing. It will consume government, it will cost taxpayers millions of dollars, it will brutalize people. The state assembly yesterday outlined weeks of process that will then lead to months of litigation. Time and money that government should spend managing COVID, guarding against the Delta variant, reopening upstate, fighting gun violence, and saving New York City. All that time would be wasted. This is one of the most challenging times for government in a generation. Government really needs to function today.

Government needs to perform. It is a matter of life and death government operations and wasting energy on distractions is the last thing that state government should be doing. I cannot be the cause of that. New York tough means New York loving. I love New York and I love you and everything I have ever done has been motivated by that love. I would never want to be unhelpful in any way. I think that given the circumstances, the best way I can help now is if I step aside and let government get back to governing. Therefore, that's what I'll do because I work for you, and doing the right thing is doing the right thing for you.

As we say, it's not about me, it's about we. Kathy Hochul, my Lieutenant governor, is smart and competent. This transition must be seamless. We have a lot going on. I'm very worried about the Delta variant and so should you be, but she can come up to speed quickly. My resignation will be effective in 14 days. To my team, Melissa DeRosa, Robert Mujica, Beth Garvey, Stephanie Benton, Dana Carotenuto, Kelly Cummins, Rich Azzopardi, Howard Zucker, Rick Cotton, Janno Lieber, Jack Davies, and the hundreds of dedicated administration officials.

I want to say this. Thank you. Thank you, and be proud. We made New York state the progressive capital of the nation. No other state government accomplished more to help people. That is what it's all about. Just think about what we did. We passed marriage equality, creating a new civil right, legalized love for the LGBTQ community, and we generated a force for change that swept the nation. We passed the SAFE Act years ago, the smartest gun safety law in the United States of America and it banned the madness of assault weapons.

We've saved countless lives with that law. $15 minimum wage, the highest minimum wage in the nation, lifting millions of families' standard of living, putting more food on the table and clothes on their backs, and we led the nation in economic justice with that reform. We have managed every emergency mother nature could throw at us; fires, floods, hurricanes through superstorms, and pandemics. We balanced the state budget and we got it done on time more than any other administration because government should work and perform, free college tuition for struggling families.

Nobody in this state will be denied their college dream because of their income. We have built new airports, rail, transit, roads all across this state faster and better than ever before and more than any state in the nation. The most effective green economy program in the nation. We did more for Black and Latino families than any other administration. We did more for working families. We did more for our union brothers and sisters. We did more to battle racism and antisemitism. Today, so much of the politics is just noise, just static, and that's why people tune it out.

What matters is actually improving people's lives. That's what you did. You made this state a better state for the generations that follow. That is undeniable, inarguable, and true, even in these ugly crazy times. I thank Speaker Carl Heastie and Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins for their leadership. Let me say this on a personal note. In many ways, I see the world through the eyes of my daughters, Cara, Mariah, and Michaela. They are 26 and 26 twins and 23. I have lived this experience with and through them. I have sat on the couch with them hearing the ugly accusations for weeks.

I've seen the look in their eyes and the expression on their faces and it hurt. I want my three jewels to know this. My greatest goal is for them to have a better future than the generations of women before them. It is still in many ways a man's world. It always has been. We have sexism that is culturalized and institutionalized. My daughters have more talent and natural gifts than I ever had. I want to make sure that society allows them to fly as high as their wings will carry them. There should be no assumptions, no stereotypes, no limitations.

I want them to know from the bottom of my heart that I never did and I never would intentionally disrespect a woman or treat any woman differently than I would want them treated. That is the God's honest truth. Your dad made mistakes and he apologized and he learned from it. That's what life is all about. I know the political process is flawed and I understand there's cynicism and distrust and disappointment now, but don't give it up because government is still the best vehicle for making positive social change. Lastly, I want to remind all New Yorkers of an important lesson and one that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

That's what you New Yorkers did in battling COVID. The enemy landed in New York state. COVID launched the attack here. It came on planes from Europe and we had no idea. It was an ambush and it was up to New Yorkers to fight back. We were on our own and it was war. Nurses, doctors, essential workers became our frontline heroes. Hospitals became the battlegrounds. Streets were stale and sirens filled the city's silence. Trailers carried the bodies of our fallen brothers and sisters, but you refused to give up and you fought back and you won, going from the highest infection rate in the nation to one of the lowest.

No one thought we could do it, but you did it. You led the nation and you showed the way forward. How you did it is what's most important. You did it together, not as Black New Yorkers or white New Yorkers, not as LGBTQ New Yorkers or straight New Yorkers or Democrats or Republicans or upstate or downstate or Jewish, Muslim, Protestant, or Catholic New Yorkers, but as one community, one family, the family of New York. You overcame the naysayers and the haters and the fear and the division and you unified and you rose and you overcame and you saved lives.

That was powerful in its effect. It was beautiful to see, and it was an honor to lead. Please remember that lesson. Hold it dear and hold it up high for this nation to see, because it is New York state at her finest, creating her legacy, fulfilling her destiny, giving life and animation to the lady in the Harbor, saying, "Excelsior." We can be better. We can reach higher and proclaiming e pluribus unum, out of many, one, unity, community, love. That is our founding premise and our enduring promise. That is the salvation of this nation that it so desperately needs to hear. Thank you for the honor of serving you. It has been the honor of my lifetime. God bless you.

Brian Lehrer: Governor Andrew Cuomo just announced his resignation. Are you as shocked as I are? I think everyone on all sides is probably shocked. He said he's doing it so state government can do the work that it needs to do with the Delta variant and other challenges without the distraction of an impeachment process that would necessarily take months. He proudly recounted what he considers many accomplishments, from legalizing gay marriage, to managing, what do you call it? Every emergency mother nature could throw at New York, to fighting racism and antisemitism and empowering unions and economic equality and more.

Then he thanked his team and the state legislative leadership. He said he sees the world in many ways through the eyes of his three daughters in their 20s. He saw the expressions on their faces and it hurt during this controversy and it's his greatest goal to have them have a better world. If you didn't hear the governor from the beginning, that speech was around 25 minutes, I guess, he started by denying the worst of the charges against him and referring to bias in the criminal justice system. He went on to say that this is not to say that there aren't 11 women who he truly offended and that he didn't appreciate enough of how the societal and generational lines have changed for what is considered acceptable joking.

He made one specific defense against one of the charges on the allegations by the woman state trooper who accused him of unwanted touching. One of the issues there was why he jumped the woman above the usual seniority rules to put her on his personal security detail. The Attorney General's report said one reason was because Cuomo liked the way she looked him in the eye the first time they met. Cuomo says he hired her quickly because he wanted more gender diversity on his security detail for the sake of gender diversity. He said he was also working on more racial diversity.

The governor was on two tracks. He said he takes responsibility for doing things that were wrong. He even thanked the women for coming forward with their complaints. He also called the process political. He said that anyone is naive who thinks that there aren't political agendas in play centrally here driven by what he called the extremes, but then he resigned. Josefa Velásquez is back with us, who's been covering this process for the news organization in the city. Josefa, are you as shocked as I am?

Josefa Velásquez: I am speechless, quite honestly. What a stunning turn of events. The governor has for the last few days been staunch in his refusal to leave office. For him to do so today on the heels of the assembly going forward with their impeachment process is startling. Honestly, I'm at a lack for words here. We've just seen the downfall of a beacon for democratic politics in the Trump era, someone who, not just New Yorkers, but people nationally look towards for guidance during the pandemic suddenly collapsing under the weight of these sexual harassment allegations. It's really a shocking moment for New York's history and nationally.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some of your first reactions to governor Andrew Cuomo's resignation at 646-435-7280. If you're among those calling for his resignation, did you get what you wanted just now? For those of you who thought that maybe this was being too politicized, you can say whatever you want. Anybody else, 646-435-7280. Of course, listeners, you can tweet @BrianLehrer and I'll see it. Josefa, at first in that statement, it looked like he was setting up a two-track defense. On the one hand saying he did things that he now understands were wrong, but contradicting that, that this whole process has been overly politicized.

I thought he was setting up a two-track defense, but then, of course, he pivoted to announcing that he would resign because he wants the state to be able to do its business and this would be too distracting for too long. How did you hear that sequence of events? He's trying to go out with his head held high, certainly on his accomplishments in office and both with respect to the way he's dealing with this criticism of things that he now says he understands were wrong, but also defending the charges as being political.

Josefa Velásquez: I think he's trying to lay out that this process has been deeply unfair. That's what we saw from his attorney, who was the warm-up act for the governor's speech. She laid out some of the same defenses that the governor and his attorney have been repeating over the last few days, refuting each 1 of the 11 claims that have been levied against the governor against women who worked in his office and women who worked around his office, really just laying the groundwork that this was a political process and that he was being treated unfairly. What the governor, I think, did in his speech was really nail down, or at least try to nail down that this did not occur.

He did not sexually harass any of these women. He apologized if he at any point made them feel uncomfortable or did things that they found were inappropriate. This is something that he has said repeatedly, that he is Italian. He kisses people on the cheek, he hugs them, he may have off-color jokes, but that he meant no ill will. There was that moment where he pivoted and we realized, "Oh my god, he's actually resigning," as he's saying all of the accomplishments that he's done and really saying that he has become a distraction at this juncture in New York's history when we're dealing with, as I mentioned earlier, we're still in the grips of this pandemic numbers are rising.

How can someone effectively govern when they have an entire investigation looming over their head? I think one of the things that I found quite telling in his remarks was that he apologized to his three daughters, and he said that he views the world through their eyes a lot of the times and that he wants them to know that public service is still for the good of the world and for people. The fact that he is trying to not only speak to them but speak to women in general after all of this has occurred is quite telling.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue our coverage in a minute of a story I never thought we would be covering today, the resignation of governor Andrew Cuomo. Stay with us.

[music]

This is special coverage on WNYC of the resignation of governor Andrew Cuomo. I'm Brian Lehrer. We'll take a special coverage to the top of the hour, I think, and then you will get the second hour of all of it with Alison Stewart as usual, seems to be the current plan, but what a shock, we thought he was gearing up for a fight. He made a statement as if he was gearing up for a fight.

His lawyer proceeded him almost as a warmup act, as our guest, Josefa Velásquez, has just characterized it, appearing to be gearing up for a fight, but then the governor resigned. Josefa Velásquez is with us. She covers state politics for the news organization in the city. Josefa, for listeners who are just joining us, I'm going to replay in just a second the clip of the moment when the governor did announce his resignation, but before we do that and before we talk about what comes next with Kathy Hochul, the lieutenant governor, taking over as governor, is that at all possible as a matter of politics that he's setting himself up to run for election?

I don't know if we call it reelection, I guess it's still reelection, next year, which is a gubernatorial election year, because he did try in that statement to go out with his head held high, to go out with apologies to the women involved, to go out with a recounting of all he has accomplished for New Yorkers and to generate as much sympathy as possible without the negativity of an impeachment process. You think it's possible he's getting ready to run again, apologize again, do an apology tour over the next few months and then say, "I get it, but I think I'm the best governor for your next four years."?

Josefa Velásquez: I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility and I don't think it's something we should rule out now. One of the things that the impeachment would have done or can still do if the assembly decides to go forward with it is prohibit the governor from running for statewide office again. Without that in there and without the Assembly and the state going through the impeachment process, there's nothing prohibiting Andrew Cuomo from running for office again, whether it be governor, congressperson, senator, or even a town chair really.

I suspect that this probably isn't the last we'll see of Andrew Cuomo. This is not going to be the end for him, whether that is another role in politics or whether it is some advisory role for someone else. This doesn't seem like the end for someone who has grown up in the political sphere and really only knows about politics.

Brian Lehrer: Here again is the moment that Governor Andrew Cuomo announced his resignation.

Governor Andrew Cuomo: I think that given the circumstances, the best way I can help now is if I step aside and let government get back to governing. Therefore, that's what I'll do because I work for you, and doing the right thing is doing the right thing for you, because as we say, it's not about me, it's about we. Kathy Hochul, my lieutenant governor, is smart and competent. This transition must be seamless. We have a lot going on. I'm very worried about the Delta variant, and so should you be, but she can come up to speed quickly. My resignation will be effective in 14 days.

Brian Lehrer: Josefa, he hung it on being a distraction. He insists that he did not commit any impeachable offense. The worst of the charges against him, including the groping allegedly, he says he's innocent of, but he said he's stepping aside because he doesn't want to be a distraction. Does that sound like an excuse or does that sound like a reason?

Josefa Velásquez: It sounds like both. I think that one of the main concerns from state lawmakers who have been clamoring to get the governor to resign is that he is a distraction. He cannot effectively govern when all of this is happening and that people are unwilling to work with someone who has these allegations looming over their head because it legitimizes them. That's something we saw come up over the course of the last few months when some lawmakers would stand alongside Cuomo at press conferences. It signaled to some that it was okay that the governor was facing these allegations because, overall, he's doing something good for the state.

At the same time, it does sound like an excuse as well. Again, the governor and his lawyers are maintaining that none of these sexual harassment allegations occurred and if it did, it was accidental, it was not something that was purposeful. The governor said repeatedly today during his remarks that he did not intend to make people feel uncomfortable. His lawyer Rita Glavin had said that if the governor touched someone's rear end, it was on accident. He did not intend to grope one of his former aides. Really I think, by trying to claim that he is a distr-- [sound cut]

Brian Lehrer: Whoops. I think we might have lost Josefa's line there for a minute. Let's take a phone call. Jessica in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jessica.

Jessica: Hi. I was listening to you guys after I called in and heard about running again. That changes my happiness a little bit.

Brian Lehrer: I don't want to live in this impression. I didn't say he is going to run again. I was just asking whether that's a possibility for next year.

Jessica: For now, it's like he's very powerful, but what I wanted to say was, I was listening in the beginning. I was like, blah, blah, blah, apology, patronizing, not admitting, just saying the same old things you hear from all the people that have stayed in office, even though they weren't wanted or most people thought they were guilty. Then suddenly the sun shines through the clouds. I couldn't believe it because, finally, there's somebody that whether they are scared to face criminal charges or not, they're not going to be able.

They're going to beside and admit that they've-- whether they admit they're wrong or they didn't know the culture, whatever, it's still is something where it set the precedent for the future and not the same old that we've been seeing for so many years. I'm happy that he mentioned his daughters because that was very important to see if I had known about his daughters may be influencing this. This is very important for women and their daughters, like my daughters. I'm really proud.

Brian Lehrer: It sounds like this is emotional for you and you're not just nervous because you're on the radio.

Jessica: No.

Brian Lehrer: You're hoping that this really helps set a standard for behavior by bosses, especially male bosses, in the future.

Jessica: Of course, bosses, presidents, anybody in the world, because this is an important state I live here. I want everyone around the world to know that you can't always get away with it, whether he was pushed out like the old way, everybody's always trying to push politicians out and then they don't succeed. Whether he was pushed out or not, he just left and that's, for me, enough because whenever people try to get pushed out, they're not. They never are.

Brian Lehrer: Jessica, thank you. Thank you so much for your call. Please call us again. Here's that moment that Jessica was just referring to. The governor referring to his three daughters. Oh, we don't have it yet? Okay. Sorry. We're going to get that, but he referred to his 26-year-old twins and his 23-year-old and talked about being hurt by the looks on their faces as the scandal was unfolding. Josefa Velásquez, what did you think when you heard that moment? There's been very little talk in the press about him as a father of three young women during this period.

Josefa Velásquez: Several times throughout the pandemic, his daughters were alongside of him during some of these briefings. What he said today was, "Your dad made mistakes and he apologized and he learns from that. That is what life is about." Really, his daughters, who are young women, some of them the same age as the women who accused the governor of sexual harassment, it's jarring to see the governor be vulnerable and emotional. His daughters have been a staple throughout his career, but more particularly in the last 18 months.

Again, at the COVID briefings, one of his daughters started working for the administration as well. The fact that his daughters were around the same age as some of the women that accused the governor, it just goes to show that this could happen to anyone. It sounded towards the end that he was really apologizing to them more so than anything else because they carry the Cuomo name. It calls into question, what will the Cuomo name be known for, and what is the legacy of that? Are people going to remember, Mario Cuomo when they think of that, or are they going to remember Andrew Cuomo and how he resigned in disgrace?

Brian Lehrer: Maria in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Maria. Thanks for calling in.

Maria: Oh, hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the taking my call. I love your show. I'm just calling to say I think it's a sad day for New York. It's a travesty that he's resigning because, as far as governing goes, has done a stellar job. I'm saying that as a woman and as a feminist. I would not have liked to see him leave.

Brian Lehrer: You did not want to see him resign?

Maria: No, no, I do not.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think would have been justice or progress if he didn't resign?

Maria: That's a good question, but I think it was too much drama from the beginning surrounding this whole scandal. I'm not sure in reality how it could have gone differently because it's been really crazy out from the beginning, but the outcome is very unfortunate for the state of New York.

BrianLehrer: Maria, I don't know your own family situation, but if you have or were to have daughters who were young women, do you think you'd feel the same? This is a question that I've heard asked, "Oh, it's easy to say in the abstract. Oh, he was just joking around. He's playful. He touches people." This is assuming that the most egregious charges are false, which we can assume, but assuming for the moment that they are that if it was your daughter feeling like that, that you wouldn't feel so casual about it.

Maria: No, I don't feel casual about it at all. I have daughters, and they disagree with me. They have already in their eyes, they judged him and they convicted him already. I'm thinking it's a bit generational, that I think we could all take a deep breath, and may the cause fall where they may and see how the facts present themselves.

Brian Lehrer: Maria, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate it. Here's that clip now of the governor referring to his three daughters in their 20s in the context of announcing his resignation.

Governor Cuomo: In many ways, I see the world through the eyes of my daughters, Cara, Mariah, and Michaela. They are 26 and 26, twins, and 23. I have lived this experience with and through them. I have sat on the couch with them, hearing the ugly accusations for weeks. I've seen the look in their eyes and the expression on their faces and it hurt. I want my three jewels to know this, my greatest goal is for them to have a better future than the generations of women before them.

Brian Lehrer: Josefa Velazquez, state government reporter for the news organization, The City. Couple of references here to how this is generational, at least that's one of the things going on. Our caller, Maria, who disagreed with her own young adult daughters, whether Cuomo should stay or go, and then Cuomo being very candid there in that clip about his own daughters.

Josefa Velásquez: Yes, and really, for the last few months, there has been this generational divide among women. Some of whom say that this is conduct that we had to go through as we were working and you learn how to buff them or rebuff them, and then there are millennials and Gen Z women who have loudly said that we're not going to put up with this. There is no reason that we should be working under these conditions, and that has really splintered a lot of people that say this conduct is a generational thing that some men, especially older men, are accustomed to working this way.

Then there are the younger folks who say, especially in light of the Me Too movement of a couple of years ago that this will not be tolerated. I think one of the things that has been interesting to watch is how some women continue to back the governor in spite of all of this, coming up with excuses that the women who were allegedly sexually harassed should have done something else or been more vocal, told him to cut it out.

I think at this point, the governor became a champion of the Me Too era passing stronger sexual harassment laws in New York, but it turns out that he wasn't abiding by them, and that his senior aides were not going through the right processes when some of these allegations were surfaced internally.

Brian Lehrer: Jeff in Park Slope, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jeff.

Jeff: Hey. Hi, guys. Amazing Newsday. I think that we should remember two things, Cuomo is the consummate politician and a huge ego. I think this was really the only play he had. He had lost, from everything I read, support all the way around in the assembly, his donors, he started to drag down to the heads of nonprofits, because they were closely aligned with him. I think the only move he could do is to resign so that he can protect his legacy and decide what he wants to do with the millions of dollars he has in his campaign chest, whether it's to run or to become a kingmaker.

This is the only way he could get away. This is the most damage-controlling way he could do. If you lose, if a guy like Cuomo loses to someone like Melissa de Rosa, he really has no friends left, but listening to some of these calls, I only want to make one other point. I'm just so disappointed. We need to think better of our democracy and expect more. We are a state of 19.45 million people.

There's no way there's only one person that can solve our problems. If this had been the CEO of AT&T or Citi Bank or Chase, there would've been no question, they would have been out in a day. Then they move on to find somebody else to take over because the standards should be higher.

Brian Lehrer: I understand. There's no indispensable person and the standards for boss behavior should be consistent across the public and private sectors. Josefa, one of the things that Jeff in Park Slope there touches on is the way that Cuomo exits public life or at least public life for now or at least the governorship. He could have done it by fighting, but then probably being impeached and removed, because he had lost the support of pretty much the entire state legislature or doing it this way, voluntarily and going out with his head held high.

It's going to be much better for his legacy in the long run than being the governor who is impeached and removed even if he does nothing else in his life. I think that's a pretty good point.

Josefa Velásquez: Yes, it certainly is. I should say that the assembly could still move forward with impeaching him. One of the things that the High Court that would be serving as their jury in this matter is that they could bar the governor from running for statewide office in the future. That would limit his ability to run for governor again or run for lieutenant governor. I do think that this defense that he has presented is still continue to play out in the next coming weeks and months because he did seek to cast a lot of aspersions on the Attorney General's report, claiming that it was political.

He still has two weeks left in office. We have to note that he's not resigning effective immediately. There are still two more weeks where he is governor. The governor of New York is a very powerful position. I have folks texting me right now asking, "What can he do in the next two weeks?" Really, the sky's the limit. You have someone who is very political, who has grown up in this from the time that he was a teenager, helping his dad up until now. He knows the ins and outs of state government in a way that I don't think very many people do.

Brian Lehrer: Are you also saying that you think the state legislature might impeach him anyway, kind of like they did with President Trump after he left office after his role in the January 6th insurrection?

Josefa Velásquez: It's possible. It's too soon to tell. I have a bunch of text messages and emails out to folks asking that same question, "Will the assembly still move ahead with the impeachment proceedings?" It might just have been enough for him to resign but there is this lingering question of he resigns, but that doesn't stop him from running for some office again in the future.

Brian Lehrer: We have a good person to ask in just a minute and that is New York State Senator Liz Krueger from Manhattan. She'll join us as our coverage continues of Governor Andrew Cuomo's resignation.

[music]

Brian Lehrer: This is special coverage on WNYC of the resignation of Governor Andrew Cuomo. If you're just tuning in and thinking, Wait, what? Yes, just under an hour ago, Governor Cuomo announced his resignation. I think everyone on all sides is pretty shocked. He said he's doing it so state government can do the work that it needs to do with a Delta variant and other challenges without the distraction of an impeachment process that would necessarily take months.

He defended himself against the charges and the Attorney General's report, at least any that would be impeachable, though he also apologized to the 11 women who came forward even thank them for coming forward, and said he's learned a lesson about the difference between acceptable joking around in the past and today. That he certainly continue to deny the most serious allegations against him like groping, and he said the whole thing is political but at the same time, he apologized, and at the same time, he resigned.

Still with me is Josefa Velásquez, who covers state government for the news organization, The City, and also joining both of us now, his New York State Senator Liz Krueger of Manhattan. Hi, Senator, thanks for jumping on with us and how shocked are you?

Senator Liz Krueger: I'm actually pretty shocked. It seemed clear to me that he kept saying he was not going to resign. Can you hear me, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear just fine. You're on.

Senator Liz Krueger: Oh, good. Okay, I was getting some statics. I'm actually in Lancaster, Pennsylvania right now. He told us all he was not resigning. It was quite a surprise that he did this now and I don't know what happens next. I know that once he steps down, Kathy Hochul comes in as our new acting governor until the next election. I don't know whether the assembly may choose to go forward with impeachment regardless.

Brian Lehrer: On first blush, would you like them to? Would you like to have an opportunity as a state senator, to sit in judgment of the governor's actions as a juror?

Senator Liz Krueger: I think it's important that the state of work understands that what he did was not an accident 11 times or more, was part of a pattern of toxic illegal behavior in the highest level of government, that you shouldn't be able to get off scot-free, even though I'm sure most people think being forced to resign, the governorship is not getting off scot-free and I certainly want to do whatever I can to make sure that he cannot run for office again, despite the fact that he has built up a giant war chest of money.

Brian Lehrer: There is that that possibility looming out there, that without the impeachment and removal, even after resignation, that he could run for office again? If he did, and the people wanted to elect him again, would that be so bad? It would be the judgment of the people.

Senator Liz Krueger: That would be the judgment of the people but, again, I would want that judgment to be made by the people after they had seen all of the facts confirmed and the guilt brought and a trial does that. That's the system we know in this country. Perhaps there's going to be criminal trials. It's not quite clear, although I think there are 14 days looking into some specific charges. I want to make sure that every New Yorker does understand the depth and breadth of the different activities that have gotten us to this day.

Brian Lehrer: Can I get your reaction to the governor's statement that this process is being politicized. I want to remind our listeners of the statement that the governor released through a lawyer back in February when some of the sexual harassment charges had first surfaced and he said the governor's office has asked attorney general Tish James, to select a qualified private lawyer to do an independent review of allegations of sexual harassment.

He said, "The governor's office wants a thorough and independent review that is above reproach and beyond political interference." Therefore the governor's office has asked Attorney General Tish James, et cetera. He asked the attorney general with a public statement that she was beyond political reproach. Now he's saying her report is political. What's your reaction to that?

Senator Liz Krueger: I do not believe her report is political. I think that she did exactly the job she was supposed to do and as you point out the job he asked her to do. There was no leaking. There was no discussions with politicians outside of her office. She hired incredibly reputable attorneys to do this report. I actually think that the insults thrown at the attorney general,before the report came out and since the report came out, is again just more examples of the bad behavior of the governor and his inner circle and reflects on them does not reflect on anything that the attorney general did and appropriately.

Brian Lehrer: Josefa Velásquez, is a reporter for the news organization, The City, covering state government is also with us. Josefa, let me read for you and for all our listeners and for Senator Krueger, a statement that lieutenant governor Kathy Hochul just released. She wrote I agree with Governor Cuomo his decision to step down it is the right thing to do and in the best interest of New Yorkers.

As someone who has served at all levels of government and is next in line of succession, I am prepared to lead as New York State's 57th Governor. Now that will become official in two weeks, the governor announced his resignation would be effective in 14 days. Josefa, what happens between now and then and what happens in the first days of the Kathy Hochul administration as far as we could tell?

Josefa Velásquez: That's a great question. I have no idea that maybe Senator Krueger can speak more to that because she was there when Eliot Spitzer stepped down and Lieutenant Governor David Patterson stepped into the role of Governor. I think one of the questions that is looming over everyone is, who does Kathy Hochul keep in her office, as governor, you have had a lot of these aides to Andrew Cuomo be implicated in this report.

Does she come into the office and clean up shop and bring in her own people or does she keep some of them? There are functions of state government that are wonky, that most people don't know or care to learn about that keep the lights on, but then there are the more outwardly facing individuals that the governor relies on for advice, and it's unclear whether Kathy Hochul will keep those on.

I guess my question for Senator Krueger is the Lieutenant Governor is a largely symbolic role in New York, or at least it has been under Andrew Cuomo. Kathy Hochul spends her time traveling around the states doing things, quite frankly, but the governor doesn't want to do. How effective can she be coming into this role? Once she hasn't had the connections or the experience that someone like Andrew Cuomo has, and doesn't have those alliances in the legislature?

Senator Liz Krueger: I got to point out, she will be a new governor, granted, coming at an unusual time, not anybody's plan but everybody who becomes a new governor at some point. She'll have a first day as governor, as everybody else. Whoever became governor did. She has, I think, very good relationships with the legislature, both houses, many people because she has been traveling around talking to the people of New York non-stop for years.

I know the legislature, and I think I can speak for both houses, will want her to be successful. We want us to go back to some level of a normal interrelationship between the second-floor chambers, and the third floor where the assembly senate sits, and we will be there to help her. I do think there are quite a few people in the Cuomo administration, that it is clear should be leaving with him but most people in state government including most people who run all of our State agencies are qualified professionals that have not come under a cloud with the governor and his inner circle.

I would be surprised if she didn't across-the-board sweep of any kind and I would also be surprised that she didn't make clear that certain people are no longer welcome. I'm confident the legislature will want to be working with her in any way we can, to make sure that this transition is successful.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a statement from Mayor de Blasio that just came in. It says, "Make no mistake, this is the result of survivors bravely telling their stories. It was past time for Andrew Cuomo to resign and it's for the good of all New York." In our last minute, let me get a brief take from each of you on how much it's for the good or complicates the situation for the city of New York since that statement was from the mayor. It's a time of transition and uncertainty now. Senator, you represent Manhattan neighborhood. Josefa, you cover Albany, but for a news organization that is for the people of the five boroughs. 20 seconds, Senator.

Senator Liz Krueger: I think that it is good for the entire state of New York and the city of New York, that the governor is stepping down and moving out as quickly as possible. It's truly been impossible for anyone to work effectively with him for months and months and months, nobody wanted to even talk to him [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Josefa 20 seconds, the last thought, how do you cover this from the city perspective?

Josefa Velásquez: It'll be interesting to see how Eric Adams, the Democratic nominee for mayor and the presumptive next mayor is going to have a relationship with the [unintelligible 01:02:02] governor who represents Rochester, I think we're in unchartered territories. What comes next is anyone's guess.

Brian Lehrer: Certainly, an uncharted territory. Josefa Velasquez, thank you for all your help today. Senator Krueger, thank you for coming on with us for a few minutes. Our coverage of the resignation of Andrew Cuomo will continue throughout the day. Here on WNYC, I'm Brian Lehrer, stay tuned for all of it with Alison Stewart.

[music]

 

 

Copyright © 2021 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.