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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, again, everyone. Later this hour, the comedian Colin Quinn will join us. He has a new book in which he roasts the 50 states from coast-to-coast. They're serious stuff as well as funny stuff in that book, which is consistent with Colin Quinn's humor, and he will come on later this hour. First, after weeks of delay in New York City, the first trickle of students and teachers are back in class as of yesterday. When the city reopened classrooms for pre-K students, 3-K students, and those with serious disabilities.

We see you 3-K and pre-K parents, and we'll continue to have segments about you and your little ones. We're going to talk in this segment about that other group, those who attend District 75 Schools, which are schools that exclusively serve special education students. Those are children with autism, significant cognitive delays, emotional disturbances, and sensory impairments beyond a certain point. For District 75 families, the pandemic lockdown and remote learning have meant that their children have had much more restricted access to specialized curriculum and their developmental specialists.

With that in mind, when New York City released its back-to-school plan this summer, it emphasized in-person learning for District 75 students providing some expanded options for going back in-person. As intense as the desire to go back may be, many parents are still choosing all remote claiming along with teachers that the city and DOE, department of education. Have been short on planning and specifics in terms of how to adapt special ed classrooms and in-person learning to suit safety concerns. With me now is Lori Podvesker, director of Disability and education policy at the group INCLUDEnyc. Lori, thanks so much for coming on with us, welcome to WNYC today.

Lori Podvesker: Thanks, Brain. Really great to be here.

Brian: For those who might not know, what is a District 75 School. Is it one physical school district with buildings or is it something that spans multiple schools, what is District 75?

Lori: Great question and very confusing nonetheless. District 75 is a organization within the New York City Department of Education. There are about 25,000 students who attend District 75 programs. District 75 has organizations similar to charter schools. For example, Success Academy is the management organization and there are multiple Success Academy schools. Parallel to that, District 75 has about 62 different management organizations in which there are a total of 420 programs. Most Districts 75 organizations have anywhere from 8 to 10 sites, which are located in 8 to 10 different school buildings all within the same borough.

Many Districts 75 programs, the majority of them, in fact, are co-located in school buildings, meaning there are other schools. Sadly, and we're working on this, District 75 programs are often housed on one floor. In which the students remain in on those floors and don't really get integrated with non-disabled students the way that they can and use a separate door and a different entrance. The way that it's organized supports segregation of disabled students.

Brian: Looking at your Twitter, I think you sent your child back to school this week. You wrote, "I'm having a tall drink while putting lots of PPE in my kid's bag for his first day of in-person school, torn and reflecting on the traumatic past six months." That's a heck of a tweet. I'm not sure where you want to start with that. Maybe you could share you and your child's experience with remote learning and why it was so important for you that your child go back in-person despite your safety concerns?

Lori: My guy is almost 18 and he has one of the purest souls on the planet, happy loving guy, and also simple and is mostly nonverbal. He has cerebral palsy, it's classified with autism, and an only child. When school closures happened in the middle of March, there was such a disruption for all of us, but even more so to him, because he also has an intellectual disability. Cognitively, I'm sure what was happening around him, yet, his schedule changed, his routine change, people who he saw every day were no longer there. His environment changed, which triggered a difference in his sensory means, and was not interacting with people the way that he was used to and he's a very social guy.

That is the social aspect of it. From a remote learning perspective, he needs a lot of help. He's not independent. There was very little remote instruction happening throughout the spring. A little more in the summer, once the city decided that there were requirements for live instruction as of July. He didn't have the ability to navigate that by himself, both physically, cognitively and from a behavioral point of view. Very, very challenging for me and his other mom, because working full-time and figuring that all out, it was just a lot.

The first couple of months, we didn't even focus on his education or his therapies. Again, I do this for a living, I used to teach, education is one of the most important things to me, but getting him stabilized was a priority, we were in crisis mode. He was being a little aggressive in our personal space, being very anxious. That's the aspect of him learning and not all the barriers that were happening through school in terms of there really was no instructions. There really has not been any instruction that has happened since March for kids and District 75 students for the most part.

Brian: A lot of people have been saying that about their remote learning experiences in other districts as well. Listeners, we want to give voice to some of you, in addition to Lori who might be in a similar situation and also help us report this story. Do you have a student yourself who attends a District 75 school and are they back in the classroom this week. How's it going after day one, if you have anything to report yet, why did you make the decision to send your child back and what are your concerns? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. We often hear parents and educators worry about kids getting left behind with remote instruction in general, or losing out on their social and emotional development.

For kids with developmental disabilities, for example, there's an added urgency to that worry. We invite you to call in if you have a child with developmental disabilities in your life or anyone else with a connection to a District 75 student. 646-435-7280, if any of you happen to be listening right now. Special ed teachers, you can call in too, how is this first week of in-person going. I know there's just been one day before today so far but

do you feel like it set up? If you happen to be on break or something and listening right now or being a remote special ed teacher, are you getting the guidance and support you need from the city? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280 for any of the people that I just shouted out with Lori Podvesker, Director of Disability and Education Policy at INCLUDEnyc.

I'm looking at the numbers, Lori, and according to Chalkbeat yesterday, roughly 43% of students so far have opted to stay home from their District 75 schools. That's right around the citywide average for students who are opting remote only Given everything that we just discussed about how important it is for kids with various disabilities to have in-person learning. Why do you think District 75 families are opting out at the same rate?

Lori: Great question. That number, I'm not sure how recent it is. I say that because when the city first released district level data around the middle of August, that number for District 75 families was at 22%. In Chalkbeat's article yesterday, it was at 43%. I suspect that data is a couple of weeks old. I think that number is even higher as the result of teachers going back to school and a soft reopening and numbers of positive cases reported. Also at INCLUDEnyc we've seen a significant increase in calls from families and doubled and tripled the number of resources and updates and online workshops and support groups.

I think it speaks to a lot of the reasons why families are electing for their children to stay home full time for remote instruction. Last week we saw a significant amount of parents looking to us asking what they should do. Because for many districts 75 families, including myself, academics is not the most important thing. There are things such as socialization and connecting with the school community and also those things lead to employment because for many of our District 75 families, it's not about graduation or college. It's about living a meaningful and productive happy life when they leave the system.

I think also in terms of how COVID has hit certain communities, as we know, that there is a correlation between that and District 75 students. About 40% of District 75 students identify as Hispanic or Latino, and 36% identify as Black. If we were to look into certain neighborhoods that we know have been hit harder, like Sunset Park, Corona, Uptown and in the Bronx, I think that number would be even higher. I think it really depends on what the priorities are for each family.

I often use the analogy of how we vote, for some they vote based on how they feel on one issue. For other families, they weigh the top three issues and then make a choice from there. Could be related to services or it could be that the family needs child care, so they sign their kids. It could be that somebody in their family got sick and maybe even passed away and there's nothing else that comes into question after that. The answer is they're home full time, so lots of variables.

Brian: Here's a question that has come in from the listener on Twitter. Listeners you can always tweet @BrianLehrer, during the show, we keep an eye on our Twitter. This appears to come from a teacher who writes, "Listening now in my car as I fight back the tears from an extremely challenging morning. With a new student who can't wear a mask and needs three people to keep him safely seated. What are we supposed to do with a child like this in the school setting?" This listener adds, "I am not being protected or trained enough by the DOE to care for a child like this."

Lori: I think that's very fair and legitimate. There has been a lack of District 75 specific guidance for schools and teachers and providers. It's indicative of how often District 75 is not included in city wide initiatives and this isn't even an initiative. It's problematic because the needs of the majority of kids in District 75 are very different than kids in community schools in non-District 75 programs. This teacher, in my opinion, has every right to feel that way. I don't know the answer except I think communication is at the root of that. We hear from families every day and include how they don't have information as a result of there being no communication, both school-based or from Central.

I think the first step for that family and teacher. Should be having a conversation of what strategies the family has used at home to get the child to where their mask and or what alternative options can be. Another part of the conversation that we feel needs to happen is the language we use to describe kids with disabilities and often our kids are not victimized but almost demonized. I've read one too many pieces by teachers saying that this kid is a spitter, this kid is a hitter. That leads to the way that we culturally value or don't value people with disabilities and it's not okay. There's many different aspects of what was just said.

Brian: Let's take a phone call from Bridget in Bergen County. Bridget you're on WNYC. Hi, there?

Bridget: Hi there, good morning. I'm so happy I got through first time, so nice to talk to you.

Brian: Great one.

Bridget: Where we are, I have a few children on a high functioning spectrum with very high IQs, way intelligent about their age. However, with that comes a lack of appropriate social interactions and somewhat it's like behavioral or emotional kind of challenges. Overall, my daughter, who is five she really did so phenomenally well. Last year she was in a full inclusive classrooms and of course pandemic then hit. I really, really got to see and I was so disappointed actually to witness this, what really goes behind those closed doors.

This is what happened, it was a live student therapy session, then kids assisting kids in a classroom. I just witnessed numerous and numerous times how my daughter was failing. How her microphone kept being muted, she was not really allowed in multiple time to speak or a teacher would not have interest to see what she has to say. I definitely understand it's challenging to have a 10 children group, a 15 children group. However, after numerous, numerous times it was very obvious that she was excluded and she was not treated--

Brian: This you're talking about teletherapy, you're talking about the remote experience?

Bridget: Yes, it's like a live class session, what was done because they were not allowed to go in during the pandemic. They would have a live sessions then in the house. After a third incident like this, I just simply had it and I wrote very long letter to my teacher. I named the whole example, how many times she was excluded. How many times a teacher would ask questions about all the other students except my daughter, how my daughter was muted. The teacher said, "Oh, it was too much noise." I said, "That's a pure lie because I was right next to her, there was no noise at all." I wrote this long, long letter, how really she was excluded and ooh, then hell broke loose, she did not like that.

She's like, "So what do you want to do about it?" Well, they said, if I really want to do something about it, I would have gone to the board of ed, to that principal and to all the higher up. The reason why I did not go to them, because I want to give you a chance as a person, as a teacher to learn from this. Never treat anyone like that, like you did to my daughter, no any child deserves what you have done. I said, "This is not an example, what you setting for the parents or other students and for entire community and for the entire philosophy, what her school presents. I said "Shame on you and I hope that was the first and the last time," and she got the message.

Brian: What a horrific experience. The end of the story is she got the message, are things better this fall--?

Bridget: She got the message.

Brian: Is teletherapy continuing?

Bridget: Teletherapy continued, she was very structured. Every child has the same time amount to talk, every child was muted then somebody else was talking. It was not just kids on the spectrum who were excluded from an entire flow with the class, I was very happy that the result. However, it's just really very saddening that I had to see this and it just makes me question what else goes behind the closed door when parents are busy.

Brian: What else goes on behind those closed doors. Bridget that's an incredible horrific story and with a lesson since it had a bit of a happy ending. That Lori Podvesker from INCLUDEnyc, I'm sure you'll reinforce that parents have to speak up and be active.

Lori: 100% congratulations and I could hear the emotions in your voice.

Brian: Of course.

Lori: It is hard being a parent for everyone. It's hard being a parent for kids with disabilities in a even different and more so way and huge props to you and way to go documenting that. One of the great things that we do at INCLUDE is offer parents one-on-one free help. Help them figure out what their priorities are so they can advocate and role play with them. Identify scripts to use in how to document issues in order for their children to get what they're entitled to, so huge props to this mom.

Brian: Bridget good luck. Thank you so much for sharing your story too because I think that's going to be really helpful for other people. Knowing that, A, they have to look what's going on behind closed doors or even behind open iPads or whatever your devices were. Then they have to advocate for their children. Bridget thank you, thank you, thank you. Laura, in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Laura.

Laura: Hi, my name is Laura and I work with kids on the autism spectrum. I'm not at the board of ed, I am early intervention providers. That means that I work with kids under three years old. They're toddlers and they've usually just been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. I have to say telehealth has been just a disaster. We were lucky enough that in July we were allowed to provide services face to face, but I have to say I'm terrified going into people's homes. I screen people before I accept a case, I'm just going to switch you onto my phone so I can see if you [crosstalk].

Brian: Tell me very briefly because we're running out of time in the segment, but why has telehealth been a disaster in your experience?

Laura: Basically I have to train the parents to do what I do. A toddler is not going to sit in front of a TV if they can live cast it onto the TV or the iPad and God forbid if they have a telephone and that's how they're trying to do telehealth. I have to get a parent who's willing to actually do what I tell them to do because I don't have a pair of hands. I can't provide reward reinforcers we call it if they do what I ask them to do. Basically the parents have to be my hands and parents aren't always willing to do that.

Brian: Lori go ahead, and we're going to run out of time in a couple of minutes but talk to Laura and address this issue.

Lori: Laura, I totally hear what you're saying. At the same time being a parent of a young child within that age range from birth to three and being new to that world is like a huge awakening in many, many, many ways. We know that the quality of tele-therapies and tele-evaluations are significantly inferior to in person. Brian, believe it or not many of the tests that are used, they are not scientifically backed or adopted by researchers as being a standardized tool. That being said families for the most part are doing the best they can.

There is a federal special education law called the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. In which any child with a known or suspected disability is entitled to an evaluation. If they meet the criteria they are entitled to services and supports to help them make progress including toddlers birth to three. The law has not changed, meaning that families are still entitled to have in-person evaluations and related services. The timelines that are put in place for them to happen have been temporarily absolved, meaning that it could happen at any time.

We encourage everyone to ask in writing and this is something at INCLUDE we help families, with write a letter to the city asking for their child to be reevaluated. That those evaluations and services can happen in person to the greatest extent possible. Also for families with young kids birth to three, with a diagnosis of autism who have insurance. They may want to pursue getting services at home independent of the department health and department of education. Such as ABA or even kids without autism, kids with developmental disabilities who have private insurance.

Brian: We have only about a minute left in this segment. I want to very briefly take another caller who's calling as a contractor with the DOE, the New York City Department of Education who wants to report on her experience. We're going to take that contractor on the air right now and thank you so much for calling if you have something to share, and we have one minute for you, hi.

Evaluator: Hi INCLUDEnyc used to be Resources for Children with Special Needs, and that's how far back I go. I'm very very aware of your services and very grateful for them.

Brian: Tell us what's happening.

Evaluator: I am an evaluator and I don't want to identify myself more than that because then people will know because there's only a few of us, very few. The children that really need us like the child you're talking about who needs three people to help maintain his being able to function in the classroom. Those are children that really need to be in really highly specialized classrooms that we don't necessarily have. I have seen hundreds and I'm telling you hundreds because I've been doing this a long time. New York City has been overwhelmed. Actually I'm disappointed that there isn't someone from the DOE there with you because really they need to explain what is going on. Now of course with the pandemic they're imploding because they just don't have the resources and I'm just continuing to do my job.

Brian: Let me ask you as an evaluator, how much of that is staff? We're hearing about the teacher shortage generally as the reason that the other kids are not going back. How much of that is staff shortage when they need to do blended and at home?

Evaluator: We have people who are begging for paraprofessional, in other words someone that sits with a child in a classroom. Those are being denied all the time. In terms of teachers, that's also a problem.

Brian: Thank you so much for exposing some of that we really appreciate your contribution. That's going to be the last word in this segment with our guests Lori Podvesker director of disability and education policy at INCLUDEnyc. Do you want to give contact information, that certain kinds of families or educators who should contact your group directly?

Lori: Sure, we help anyone who needs help. We have a helpline both in English and Spanish or people can text. In English our helpline number is (212) 677-4660 our helpline number in Spanish is (212) 677-4668. We encourage everybody to go to our website includenyc.org which is an English platform. We have a Spanish platform Incluiye and that's incluye.org. Folks can find forms there to fill out and somebody from INCLUDE and Inluiye will call them back within 24 to 48 hours hopefully.

Brian: Thank you so much for everything in this segment, thank you for your work.

Lori: Thank you Brian, bye bye.

Brian: Brian Lehler

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