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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We just heard on the BBC, many of you heard them talking about the NBA, and it's not just the NBA. We're going to give our first words today to Doc Rivers, the coach of the LA Clippers in the NBA, and then, relate it to what's going on at the Republican Convention. As you probably know by now, whether you just heard it on the BBC or elsewhere, all three NBA Playoff games scheduled for last night did not take place after the Milwaukee Bucks refused to take the court for their game, Milwaukee being in the same state as Kenosha, Wisconsin, where the police killing of Jacob Blake took place. After the Milwaukee team took it stand, this was the sequence, the league then canceled all three games that had been scheduled. Games in the WNBA Playoffs were also canceled or postponed. Some games in Major League Baseball and Major League Soccer also did not take place. Tennis star, Naomi Osaka, pulled out of her match in the Western and Southern Open semi-finals that was scheduled for today. They'll all decide today what happens next, I guess. Doc Rivers, the Clippers coach, talked about the shooting of Jacob Blake in the context of the fear he hears coming from the Republican Convention.

Doc Rivers: My dad was a cop. I believe in good cops. When they're trying to defund the police and take all their money away, we're trying to get them to protect us just like they protect everybody else. I didn't want to talk about it before the game because it's so hard to just keep watching it. That video, if you watch that video, you don't need to be Black to be outraged. You need to be American and outrage. How dare the Republicans talk about fear? We're the ones that need to be scared. We're the ones having to talk to every Black child. What white father has to give his son a talk about being careful if you get pulled over?

Brian: LA Clippers coach, Doc Rivers. Now, Milwaukee players called on the Wisconsin legislature to, "Reconvene after months of inaction and take up meaningful measures to address issues of police accountability, brutality, and criminal justice reform." They also encouraged people, "To educate themselves, take peaceful and responsible action, and remember to vote on November 3th. Last week, Los Angeles Lakers players could be seen wearing red baseball caps that look like the Donald Trump Make America Great MAGA hats, but these hats said, "Make America great again, arrest the cops who killed Breonna Taylor." Athletes are taking a stand, and last night, it got to the point where they started saying in effect, "If Black Americans can't have justice, you can't have us entertaining everybody like nothing happened." Now, in stark contrast, in the long speech last night by Vice President Pence for the Republican Convention, the only mention of Kenosha, Wisconsin was this--

Mike Pence: Let me be clear. The violence must stop whether in Minneapolis, Portland, or Kenosha. Too many heroes have died defending our freedom to see Americans strike each other down. We will have law and order on the streets of this country for every American of every race and creed and color. [applause] President Trump and I know that the men and women that put on the uniform of law enforcement are the best of us. Every day, when they walk out that door, they consider our lives more important than their own.

Brian: No ambiguity there, Mike Pence, last night. We'll hear more clips. We'll talk more about sports. With us now, ABC News White House Correspondent, Rachel Scott. Rachel, I know that between the convention and the hurricane and everything else, you must be reporting five different ways right now, so thank you so much for giving us some time. Welcome to WNYC.

Rachel Scott: Thanks for having me, Brian. Great to be here, and certainly, no shortage of news.

Brian: Right. We'll talk about a number of things. Let's start on that disconnect between pro sports and the convention speeches. By the time the Vice President spoke last night, he would have known about what was happening in sports around our land and the Doc Rivers video was going around and other things, do you know if they considered saying anything to acknowledge or respect it, or even directly refute it?

Rachel: It's interesting. Today, this morning, we are seeing the first comments from White House officials about the position that NBA players are taking against not playing. Marc Short, who is the chief of staff to the Vice President said this morning in an interview that if they want to protest, that we don't care, and that he blasted the strike calling it absurd and silly, saying that essentially NBA players are picking and choosing what they want to speak out against. Now, I do know last night from talking to White House officials that Vice President Mike Pence did make a last-minute change, he made a last-minute edit in his speech to address the unrest that we saw in Wisconsin. As you just played there, it was not talking about obviously the shooting of Jacob Blake. The President has not publicly commented on it other than asking or calling on the governor of Wisconsin to call in the National Guard. A White House official does tell me that efforts have been made for the President to connect with the family of Jacob Blake, but no word on whether or not that conversation has happened yet.

Brian: We know Joe Biden did connect with the family of Jacob Blake, and we'll play a clip of him later. The Pence clip there and other things he said in his speech made it sound like he and Trump are running for reelection on the notion that systemic racism is a hoax. Here's another line.

Mike Pence: Joe Biden says that America is systemically racist and that law enforcement in America as, and I quote, "An implicit bias against minorities."

Brian: The way he said that, Rachel, that line really struck me because much of this convention programming has been dedicated to making the case that President Trump is not racist, but to your ear, did Pence go further there by suggesting that systemic racism is not a problem in this country?

Rachel: It's a valid question, right? It's a valid question to this administration on whether or not they believe that systemic racism is deeply rooted in America. I think the Vice President there made a bit of a suggestion, but it is a question that reporters posed to Kellyanne Conway yesterday just hours before she spoke at a gaggle outside on the White House North Lawn, and she didn't have an answer on whether or not the President believed that there was systemic racism in this country. I think what we have to look at too is how much this serves as such a stark contrast to what we saw just last week from Democrats at the Democratic National Convention, where they were addressing the racial unrest in this country by talking about how systemic the issue is in America. It's something that we are not seeing on the other side of the aisle this week with Republicans. Instead, what we are seeing is the emphasis that law and order is on the ballot. That's what you heard from the Vice President last night. It may be what you hear from the President this week, if his previous comments over the last several days or any sign, he's going to push this law and order message. That's what he believes is on the ballot this election day.

Brian: The unified message of the week, in contrast to last week, is Donald Trump isn't a racist, law and order is on the ballot, and it doesn't even matter if Donald Trump isn't a racist because systemic racism itself isn't a problem in this country anyway, based on that Pence clip. Who do you understand, as a matter of political analysis, who that's intended to appeal to because I thought it was supposed to be both to reassure white suburban voters this whole week that Trump's character is acceptable, but also, to try to get a few more points than in 2016 among Black voters?

Rachel: Right, and you remember the President famously said four years ago that when he wins re-election that he's going to have over 90% of the Black vote. We have seen efforts by the Trump campaign, especially launching multiple coalitions designed to expand the tent, designed to bring in diverse voters from all different backgrounds. It's interesting when you look at the order in which some of these speeches played out. Some of the speeches before primetime are meant to appeal to that broader base, meant to send a message that the President values their voice, telling personal stories about the President. We saw last night from the White House press secretary talking about how the President was there for her after her surgery and the first family. Then, when we do step into prime time, we do go back to this law and order type of message, that the Trump campaign and the President had been hunkering down on. There is an appeal though to the suburban voters, which polls have shown that the President is losing. Obviously, in the last several weeks, the President has been down in the polls in key battleground states. If you look at his strategy just last week, when the DNC was happening, the President visited five battleground states. In every single one of them, he's either down in the polls or he's neck and neck with his rival, Joe Biden. In a state like Wisconsin, for instance, where the President won fewer than 23,000 votes, hanging on to those suburban voters is going to be critical. On the flip side of this, we also saw in Wisconsin, the state had one of its lowest voter turnouts in almost two decades. Partially, that was because Black voters in big cities like Milwaukee were not energized to go out to the polls. Whoever energizes Black voters, minority voters, Asian voters, Hispanic voters ahead of the 2020 election, that could flip the sails as well. That's something that both the campaigns have to take into consideration.

Brian: By contrast, Joe Biden released a video yesterday in which he makes two points about Kenosha. One, unlike anyone at the Republican Convention, he says the name, Jacob Blake.

Joe Biden: What I saw in that video makes me sick. Once again, a Black man, Jacob Blake, has been shot by the police in broad daylight with the whole world watching. I spoke to Jacob's mom and dad, sister, and other members of the family just a little bit earlier and I told them, "Justice must and will be done."

Brian: Then, Biden goes on to denounce violence and protests.

Joe Biden: As I said, after George Floyd's murder, protests to brutality is a right and absolutely necessary, but burning down communities is not protest, it's needless violence, violence that endangers live, violence that gut businesses and shutters businesses that serve the community. That's wrong.

Brian: Joe Biden in a direct-to-camera recorded video yesterday. ABC News White House correspondent, Rachel Scott, is my guest. Rachel, I know you're a White House correspondent so I know if you're reporting at all on the Democrats right now, but the Democratic Convention last week really did not address the issue of violence within protests or street crime on the rise in the US this year. Any take on why Biden came out much more explicitly yesterday?

Rachel: This has been the subject of a lot of criticism from Republicans saying that Democrats are not coming out and condemning the violence that we have seen in many of these protests. They have been calling on Democrats to come out and speak out against it, and that's what you saw from Joe Biden there. He was talking about condemning some of the violent unrest that has happened in the State of Wisconsin, while also, as you heard there, trying to express support and understanding, asking Americans to put themselves in the shoes of Black mothers and Black fathers in this country as they watch that video of Jacob Blake, a Black man being shot multiple times in front of his children. That is a very stark line from the former Vice President. We know that both Biden and Senator Kamala Harris had spoken with the family of Jacob Blake, but you're right. This is something that Republicans have been harkening on, calling out Democrats for saying, "Why aren't you talking about the violence?" It is notable here that the Biden ticket is also condemning the violence that is happening. Even from Jacob Blake's family, they have said that they want this to be a peaceful protest, that people are going to be out in the streets, that violence is not the answer.

Brian: Listeners, we can take a few phone calls for ABC News White House correspondent, Rachel Scott. My next guest, by the way, is going to be the long-time New York Times sports columnist, now with ESPN, William Roden as we talk more explicitly about what's going on in sports with relation to racial justice and whether pro sports is going to or should shut down altogether for a while in this country. William Rhoden coming up as our next guest. In the meantime, your reactions to Rachel Scott to Vice President Pence's speech last night, or his contrast that Joe Biden says America is systemically racist and that law enforcement in America has a "implicit bias against minorities." Again, those were Pence's words suggesting that those things are not real. Is a vote for Trump and Pence, a vote for the idea that systemic racism and implicit bias are not issues in America? 646-435-7280, or on Biden's reaction speaking explicitly now about violence or whatever you want to say or ask, 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. The shootings, Rachel, in Kenosha, the other night that left two dead and one person critically wounded, now appear, according to the police, to have been done by a 17-year-old white kid, who according to reporting this morning, frequently posts in support of law enforcement on social media, and reporters think it's him in the front row of a Trump rally that they see on a video, and he's from out of state. Do you think the Trump people will address the difference between property violence and who killed people as a vigilante, apparently, in the streets in Kenosha?

Rachel: Well, the White House Press Secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, put out a statement saying that President Trump condemns violence in all forms and that the administration believes in protecting Americans from chaos and from lawlessness, and again, went back to the point of the President encouraging the governor there to request the National Guard and federal law enforcement to help with that situation there. For a lot of people looking at the videos and the aftermath of this and looking to see how Jacob Blake was treated versus how this alleged gunman was treated, there are questions as to why two people were treated differently. From the administration, we have not heard specifically about this. They refer back to the investigation is going to be ongoing. The President has not held a press briefing, but I can imagine that when he does, this is going to be one of the top questions, and reporters are going to have questions on whether or not he believes that people are treated differently because of the color of their skin based off of those two videos that we have seen surface.

Brian: By the way, I'm seeing that Jared Kushner has now come out and reacted to the NBA. We're seeing this per Yamiche Alcindor from PBS, "Jared Kushner, "The NBA players are very fortunate that they have the financial possession where they're able to take a night off from work." Jared Kushner on CNBC, apparently. Just adding that piece of reporting. Let's see. Here's a Kamala Harris clip. The coming debate between her and Pence ought to be interesting since he said, what we've been playing yesterday, and she said this yesterday. Oh, I'm sorry. I queued up the wrong clip, but yes, can we go to the Kamala Harris clip? This is my mistake, listeners. A little behind the scenes for you that I was going to go to another clip next, but I said Kamala Harris. Our great engineer, Juliana Fonda, is responding quickly to my error, but that's okay. We're going to switch it up and go to Kamala Harris right now.

Kamala Harris: There are still two systems of justice in America, and we need to fight again for that idea that says, "All people are supposed to be treated equally," which is still not happening.

Brian: That will set up quite a contrast. There is one debate, typically between the vice-presidential candidates, that's going to happen in October. Maybe, Rachel, they're going to get to this an explicit conversation around the question of, "Is systemic racism in America real, or is Vice President Pence really suggesting that it's a hoax?"

Rachel: Yes, I can imagine that this is going to be a big issue on that debate stage. They're only set for one debate that's happening in October, both of them coming face to face. We have seen Senator Harris's debate style, right? During the Democratic primary, you remember her taking Joe Biden to task on his record over busing, calling him out on his previous comments about working with segregation as Senator. She is a prosecutor. That is who Senator Harris is. She has made herself known for having these tough questions at Senate hearings. We will definitely, likely, probably, my guess, see that happen on the debate stage, where she'll flip the script and ask Vice President Pence a question about race. Listen, right now, our country is facing multiple crises, not only the public health crisis that is happening but also this crisis about race in America, and for a lot of voters across this country, that is a big issue on the ballot. Those debates are going to be really a focal point for many voters as they look to cast their ballot.

Brian: Here's one more line from the Pence speech that sums up the contrast he was trying to draw as is often the vice-presidential nominee's roles in convention speeches to go on the attack against the other party, listen.

Mike Pence: President Trump has set our nation on a path of freedom and opportunity. Joe Biden would set America on a path of socialism and decline.

Brian: They use that S word a lot this week, so far, socialism, and that's a classic in Democratic versus Republican politics. Here's Ronald Reagan speaking in 1961.

Ronald Reagan: Back in 1927, an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president in the Socialist Party ticket said the American people would never vote for socialism, but he said under the name of liberalism, the American people will adopt every fragment of a socialist program.

Brian: In this respect, same as it ever was, Rachel.

Rachel: It is, and this is a strategy once again by the Trump campaign to paint the Democratic Party and the Democratic ticket to the far left. You've heard the President described them as the radical left in saying that Biden represents the future and the direction of where the party is headed. This came up a lot when Biden was searching for his running mate, and the consensus that I got from talking to Trump campaign officials that it didn't necessarily matter who he ended up selecting, they were going to paint this as that person being to the left of Joe Biden. They are painting this dark picture about where a Biden ticket could leave America if they landed in the Oval Office, if they landed in the White House. The President said that they would bring chaos and madness, that we would see blood on the streets of Chicago, painting this dark and gloomy picture. Going back to tonight, when the President is set to accept the Republican nomination on the White House South Lawn, Trump campaign officials, the President himself, has said that they want this to be an optimistic week, an upbeat week. It will be interesting to see how the President takes that turn in his speech tonight after days, in his last several remarks, railing against the Biden ticket and painting that dark and bleak picture. I'm really interested to see how the President shift the focus and whether or not he goes to some of his lines that he has been falling back on in recent campaign events.

Brian: Let's take a phone call. Lou on Staten Island, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lou, thank you for calling in.

Lou: Good morning, Brian. Thanks for getting my call. I listened to the convention too last night. Unless, if you came to this country this morning or you were born yesterday, you shouldn't have expected Mr. Mike Pence to make any speech differently from what he did. This is why this country still has this problem, people that are in position of privilege and power. Now those with white skin without position of privilege and power don't go through this thing every day that an ordinary person goes through, especially if you are Black or what accent you speak with. The ordinary guy, the bus driver, the daily worker, we don't have to deal with this racism every day, whether it were from law enforcement or their relatives who are white, or their business partners, or their political leaders. For Mr. Pence to make that speech and people expecting that he will do anything differently is just naive. This man knows Joe Biden, personally. They have worked together for years. They know each other's character. Mr. Biden has been speaking on this violence ever since. Growing up in Liberia, West Africa, in my block, we all want it to be the Jackson Five because of the images that we saw of this country, how nice, they worked hard, decent. Alexis de Tocqueville said in one of his last book before he left this country, Democracy in America, he said, "Democracy in America is just on the surface." It's like a house that is badly over-painted. All of that paint is filth, it's crumbling, and people pretend that everything is fine because they don't have to suffer any degradation they've seen. I am sick of it. We need to speak truth. That will redeem us as Christians. Don't pretend that the sin isn't there, it is there. You will not be able to deal with a problem if you continue to pretend that the problem doesn't exist. It exists. Just like this virus exists, people are dying from it. Scientists are working hand in hand with the politicians to pretend that it doesn't exist. I am sick of it. For those of you who are in position of privilege and power, use that power to do good like Doris Day did. Thank you for taking my call.

Brian: Thank you very much. Lou speaks about Christianity there, which was the other big theme last night. There was a lot about Christianity at the Republican Convention. I guess, to them, that matches up with saying sarcastically that Joe Biden thinks systemic racism is a problem in America, suggesting that it isn't, and they're the good Christians and he's not. Dr. B in New York. I don't know where New York, it's a big place. Hi, Dr. B, you're on WNYC. You don't have to tell us where you live. Hi.

Dr. B: Okay. Good morning. I just want to say two things. Number one, as a physician, I have malpractice insurance, I'm expected to adhere to a certain basic standard of care, and if I don't do that, I'm held liable. I feel that one of the big problems that we have here is that police officers don't feel the impact. Very few of them will end up going to jail because of what they do, and the county or the state gets sued, and the taxpayer ends up paying. I think if we really want to do anything, if we really want to make any change, then, we need to start changing the laws so that police officers can be held individually liable as well for particularly egregious crimes. I think that's the only way things are going to change because as a physician, whenever I'm doing anything, I have to remember that I will be held responsible. They're not held responsible. That's one thing. The other thing is, I'm a Black woman, and I have a son, who is 19. He was born and raised in this country, and every time this child goes out, I worry. I worry, "Is he going to make it home, and what has been happening again and again, could it happen to him?" It's really hard. You really have to be in our shoes to understand how this feels. There's a degree of gaslighting that goes on, this idea that, "Oh, everything is fine," like the other caller said, it's not fine. I'm so proud of these kids that stand up and say, "We've had enough. We're not taking any more."

Brian: Dr. B, thank you so much. Please call us again. David in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, David.

David: Brian, I just wanted to note that the Republican Party talking about law and order, and there's white-armed militias patrolling the streets of Kenosha, and according to some videos in social media, they seem friendly with the police officers there, how is that law in order? That's just really disturbing. I just want to like-- Why isn't that a huge deal and something that we're talking about because it's just very similar to the kind of things that went on before the Nazis took power in Germany? I just don't understand how they can talk about law and order when they work with like-- These calls to deputize citizens, who are just walking around with rifles and other sorts of weapons and just acting like they are the police.

Brian: David, thank you very much. Rachel, while you were reporting for ABC last night, I was watching some of the various cable channels. I know that on MSNBC, one of the things that they were pointing out was the contrast between how Jacob Blake was treated when he was moving toward his car, et cetera and how the shooter, who's now in custody, was treated, that 17-year-old white kid, who shot the protesters and killed two and critically injured one, who apparently was part of some kind of militia. This is still vague and details are coming. The police were on the scene, according to descriptions that I was seeing on NBC, and he wasn't immediately apprehended. He was allowed to run down the street. Do you have any reporting on that?

Rachel: Yes, much of these videos are still coming in, but on the surface, that people are looking at that very question. It harkens back to the exhaustion and the frustration that we just heard from those two callers, the first two callers that called in. There is an exhaustion among Black Americans in this country. This is nothing new. You will hear that from protesters. I was out there for days with protesters here in Washington DC after George Floyd was killed. They will tell you that the racism that they believe is being reflected in America right now is nothing new. The fact is, is that now it's just being taped and it's just being shown on National Television, but that it's been happening for years. I go back to what that mother just said that she's fearful when her Black son leaves the home. That is a fear that has existed for decades in Black American families. As these videos come to light, people are trying to draw attention to them to show the ways in which people of two different races could be treated differently. The videos are still all coming in and they're trying to be verified. The investigation is still underway, but this particular incident in Wisconsin is going to raise a lot of questions about how deep the racial tension and the systemic racism in our country is. Those questions are going to be important questions to pose also to our leaders, especially in this critical election year.

Brian: One last question for you, and then, I'll let you go back to your real job. We have Bill Roden standing by to talk more about the sports element of all this next, and take your calls on that, listeners. Rachel, you mentioned covering protesters in Washington, what's your understanding of the march that's planned for tomorrow, August 28th, which is the anniversary of the 1963 March on Washington and the famous Martin Luther King and John Lewis and other speeches that day and the very big gathering? This, of course, was planned before Jacob Blake was shot, but what is this supposed to be, and do you know what the organizers are saying about calling people to that kind of in-person event during the pandemic, or how many people they expect to gather?

Rachel: They're expecting tens of thousands of people have RSVP'd. It will remain to be seen how many show up tomorrow, but they are expecting a very large march. They also are encouraging-- The organizers are encouraging people to partake in this online as well. We are still in the middle of a pandemic. DC has some very strict guidelines when it comes to coronavirus as well that they want everyone to be mindful of. This march, led by Al Sharpton, really came about after the killing of George Floyd. He said that protesters and activists are going to take to Washington again, on this significant anniversary, to protest the same thing that they were protesting decades ago. This time around, we are expected to see the mothers and the family members of Black lives that have been taken at the hands of police join this match. They will be there tomorrow. We were told that the members of the family of Jacob Blake will also be in town tomorrow for this march. The message overall is that the calls for equality, the calls for justice have not ended. As Al Sharpton says, he says that they have felt as if America has had its knee on the neck of Black Americans in this country for far too long. They are hoping to send a very powerful message to not only the President but all lawmakers by this mass gathering, demanding for change, and demanding a hard look at the systemic racism and the issues that exist in this country. Obviously, with the pandemic, I'm sure there are many people that are going to be watching virtually and staying home. The organizers tell us that they do plan to take some additional safety precautions, encouraging everyone there to wear a mask, and we'll see whether or not social distancing is in place as this march takes place in just a few hours.

Brian: Which, by the way, would be different from what happened at Vice President Pence's speech last night. I was surprised to see, with a fair number of elderly people in the crowd, it was not really six feet apart in all cases. It was a crowd there, seated in person, and not everybody was wearing masks. We will see if there's a cluster that might actually come out of Vice President Pence's convention speech, hopefully not, but looking at the configuration of people and their behavior, it looks like something that's possible. I know I did see Reverend Sharpton on television this week reminding people that if they're coming to his rally, they should stay socially distanced and wear masks. We will see how that goes. Rachel Scott, ABC News White House Correspondent. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Rachel: Thank you for having me, Brian. Such a pleasure.

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Bill Rhoden with us next. Stay with us.

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