[music]

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC, back on May 23rd, month ago tomorrow, before Memorial Day weekend, we did a segment on the Rockaways based on Gothamist and WNYC reporting by our reporter, Jake Offenhartz. His article was called Rockaway Lifeguard Sound Alarm on Deadly Potential of City's Beach Closure Plan. The article started like this: along some of the most heavily used and transit-accessible stretches of coastline, the tall plywood chairs will be replaced by signs, warning beach goers to stay out of the water between Beach 86th Street and beach 116th Street.

The parks department announced this week, swimming won't be allowed at all through, at least, July 15th, confirming what many had feared for weeks. The closures are for US Army, Corps of Engineers, work on stone jetties there as part of an environmental resiliency project and in what the city called a compromise, as reported by Jake last month. They kept the Sandy Beach open, but people are not allowed to go in the water. You could go on the beach, but not in the water. No lifeguards, one of the calls we got on that day, May 23rd, was from a Rockaway Beach goer named Luis.

Luis: I was there on Rockaway yesterday. We were packed as sardines, no lifeguard. Of course, the kids wants to go in there. Why they cannot plan things to be done by sections? Why close a beach that is so popular? People from Woodhaven Rago Park, Howard Beach, we all go there. We don't want the traffic going to Long Island. On Saturday, I went to Jones Beach, it was horrible. I decided to go Sunday to Rockaway, and no lifeguard, is closed, it's ridiculous. This is unrealistic, besides parking, it's a nightmare. Why they cannot do something for these people, for us?

Brian: Listener Luis calling the show on May 23rd and over this past weekend, two teenagers drowned in separate incidents in that open water, or I should say beach open but closed water area, "Around beach 98th Street, one of them, and around beach 116th Street," authority said. Jake Offenhartz is back now, his latest article on Gothamist quotes people saying, "These deaths could have been prevented." Hi, Jake welcome back to the show. Sorry, under these circumstances.

Jake: Hey, Brian, thanks for having me.

Brian: Is there anything more to fill in by way of background to remind us what was open and what was closed and why?

Jake: I think you had a pretty good intro, basically this really transit-accessible, popular part of Rockaway Beach is not being staffed by lifeguards right now. This comes after the city has really put a lot of work into telling people to come to this part of Rockaway. This has become like a really, really popular happening direction of the beach. On Friday night, I was having to be over there and you hear the helicopters overhead and immediately know what that means. In this case, there were two separate incidences, one involving a 16-year-old girl. She's from the Bronx. Her name is [unintelligible 00:03:36], I believe.

Then a teenage individual male between 18 and 20. They were like 10 blocks from each other. They were both swimming around the same time and they both got pulled out, they were pronounced dead. That same evening, they were actually three other FDNY rescues, a couple were in the same area, one was about a mile away. All of those individuals survived, but this was exactly what we had been explicitly warned about. I spoke to lifeguards, I spoke to Rockaway residents. People said that this was the fear, this was almost inevitable as one person put it and we're only a few months into summer and we're already talking about these horrible tragedies.

Brian: You had reported last month that the city said that plan was a compromise. A compromise between what and what, remind us?

Jake: There were initially some discussions about really fully closing off the beach because of this federal resiliency work. There were discussions with community members. I think some of the boardwalk vendors and a decision was made that this area was so popular that they didn't want to close off the sale. They wanted to let people hang out at that beach, but they would say, "No swimming," and people enforcing no swimming, which is a very hard thing to enforce when you have thousands of people on a beach, "Packed like sardines," as Luis said, would be these parks enforcement patrol, these are guys in green shirts on ATVs. They say, "Get out of the water," they blow a whistle, then they keep going and everyone gets back in the water.

The compromise was they were going to tell people not to go on the water, they were going to let them on the beach, which someone said to me last night, it's like being half pregnant, either a beach is closed or it's not closed. Which, I think, is what we're seeing here.

Brian: We heard from the caller, Luis, in that clip from last month, "We were packed as sardines, no lifeguard. Of course, the kids want to go in there."

Jake: Right. I was just going to say, another thing to point out is year after year, the victims of these drownings are young people. They're almost exclusively teenagers or maybe younger than teenagers who are confident in their abilities or don't realize that this is a ocean-facing beach with some heavy drop-offs and rip currents, and those are the people we report on who, unfortunately, die.

Brian: Listeners, if we have anybody in the Rockaways or connected to the Rockaways, anybody who knows either of these young people who drowned or who just wants to talk about the situation out there or ask Jake a question. Jake Offenhartz from WNYC News and Gothamist who's been reporting on this 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or you can post a comment or a question on Twitter @BrianLehrer. Jake, the suggestion that your sources are making is a very serious one. That the city is somehow responsible for these drownings.

We should say you quote a city official like this, your article says, "A spokesperson for the Parks department, Crystal Howard disputed that narrative writing in an email that the drownings had happened after 6:00 PM when city lifeguards end their shifts. She said, "Conflating these horrible after-hours incidences with any other issue is just wrong and ill-informed." Who's saying what, accepting that or not accepting that in the Rockaways?

Jake: The FDNY is not actually accepting that. They have calls coming in before 6:00. There was one at 5:58, I believe there was one before that even reporting on kids drowning. At that point, if the city had staffed these beaches as they have in the past, there would've been lifeguards on duty here. I spoke to one woman who lives on Rockaway [unintelligible 00:07:51]. She was there, she watched as this group of kids, "Before 6:00 PM," she said, because her yoga class starts at 6:00, were hanging out by the rocks, which is a very dangerous area to be swimming by the rock jetties.

She, immediately, as a long-term Rockaway resident, knew that they were going to be in trouble, even though they were standing at the time, there was such a steep drop-off there. She called 9/11 and just a few minutes later, a young girl walked up to her and said, "Where are the lifeguards? I've lost my friend, I can't find my friend." We believe that was the 16-year-old girl who lost her life. The city's contention is that they said that these happened after 6:00 PM, were pulled by FDNY, that's actually not the case. Some of them were after 6:00 PM, at least one of them was before 6:00 PM.

I should say, also, I spoke to the former chief lifeguard on Rockaway, we had on the show, in the past, and then she points out that this hour, like 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM is actually a really dangerous time on the beach. It tends to get a little bit windier which increases the current. She's always called for there to be some sort of truck with a mobile lifeguard unit who could respond, even if they're not on the chairs, who could respond quickly because she says that this hour, when they close, is really the most hazardous time on the beach. Obviously, that hasn't happened.

Brian: It really raises a larger question. It sounds like not just related to this particular resiliency work that's going on the jetties right now that has the sand open, but the water's closed because there have been other drownings in the Rockaways waters before this summer. Obviously, I was looking at a New York Times article today from 2020 that documented 7 in the year leading up to that article. I think young people, again, in those cases, at times when the waters are not staffed by lifeguards after hours, after 6:00 PM, as they would say, but then the implication would seem that the city arguably has a responsibility to have lifeguards there during daylight hours at least after 6:00 PM, jetty repairs are not, is that the largest story here in a sense?

Jake: I think it's part of it. I think another part of that story is that the city doesn't have nearly enough lifeguards right now to staff their existing programming and stuff that people have come to rely on for decades, so it's a little [crosstalk].

Brian: Which is another problem citywide and nationwide, this lifeguard shortage right now. I guess another story that you're probably aware of is some of the swimming lessons in city pools around New York this summer are not taking place because they don't have enough lifeguards. They don't have this lifeguard staffing that they have had in most recent years. Something's going on with lifeguards nationally that adds to this issue.

Jake: Yes. I think there's this national context and I think that there's also some locally specific issues from the lifeguards that I've spoken to. They see this as of the piece with what's happening on the beaches and the pools. It's all overseen by the same lifeguard division which is under the Parks Department and is controlled by Lifeguard Union that, for years now, has been the subject of some really blistering reports.

There was a New York mag story about two years ago who found that the head of the Lifeguard Union was operating out of a playbook of patronage [unintelligible 00:11:33] and intimidation. There was a city report. Into this, there was a whole bunch of recommendations that were issued earlier this year, or at the end of last year, I think, and they were ignored. The lifeguards, who I spoke to, say that this is relevant because people are, for a whole host of reasons, including pay, I think, including bureaucracy and how this is managed, are not becoming city light cards anymore. There's fewer than 500 city lifeguards right now. For years, we were closer to 1400 when it was around 1,000 last year, but right now, we're at half that.

We're still trying to get people to re-certify through July 4th, but I think that some of what we're seeing now with the lack of lifeguards and the lack of swimming lessons that teach people how to swim so they don't find themselves in these grounding situations, it's all very much connected, and it doesn't seem like it's on the path to get better right now.

Brian: This is WNYC [unintelligible 00:12:36] AM New York, WNJTFM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 net con, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are in New York and New Jersey Public Radio and live streaming @wnyc.org at a minute and a half before eleven o'clock, a few more minutes with [unintelligible 00:12:58] Jake Offenhartz on the drownings and the potential city responsibility for them in the Rockaways over the weekend. On that lifeguard shortage, here's Craig in Morganville. Craig, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling in.

Craig: Hey, guys, how you doing? Well, one of the points I wanted to cover you guys just did about, there's a shortage of lifeguards. One of the things is because everywhere in the country and the city, nobody wants to work. I've also noticed that a couple of friends of mine, years ago, even before COVID, when they worked at city pools, so a lot of teenagers and kids who are rough housing and causing problems, they don't want to listen.

Some lifeguards have been physically abused, verbally abused by local residents who don't give a hoot. Also, you're going to have the sand open and your [unintelligible 00:13:52] the beach, and you have all this construction going on for Army Corps of Engineers. You should be able to get some lifeguards where you put flags up to a small area for the line of sight for the lifeguards if you get 'em and it should be easier to do.

They do it in the Hamptons. They do it down the Jersey Shore to make life easier if they can get the lifeguards. Like I said, a big problem is [unintelligible 00:14:22] wants to talk about it even at city pools, a lot of these lifeguards get abused very badly.

Brian: Interesting. Craig, thank you very much for your call. Jake, I don't know if you've seen evidence of that or reported on that. He also mentioned the pay for lifeguards and, obviously, there's the so-called great resignation and workers in all kinds of relatively low-paying jobs demanding more these days, or it's just not worth the risk, not worth their time. Have you reported on the reasons for the lifeguard shortage in New York?

Craig: Yes. I think that he's absolutely right that it's a difficult job. You're doing a mix of oversight and babysitting and saving lives if you need to. You're doing it at a rate of $16 an hour, which is about $2 more than it was a decade ago. This is for first-year lifeguards. They're required to work six days a week throughout the entire summer. We've seen, in other places, there's a municipality of the Jersey Shore, they raised their prices to $20 an hour or their wages a tipsy pays $22 an hour with a $500 signing bonus.

We've seen these raises in response to the shortage which there's a lot of factors for including relatively low unemployment right now. Those, in a lot of cases, have an effect. People will take a harder job if they're getting compensated for it. This was voted to Mayor Eric Adams last week. He basically shrugged it off. He said that lifeguards do what they do because of the, "Love of swimming."

Brian: Love of swimming. I don't know. I'm not even going to--

[laughter]

Brian: The listeners, plug in any job description you want, and say, "They do it because of the love of X." Adriana in Rockaway Park, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Adriana: Hello. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm a proud listener and thank you so much. Strangely, last night, we have a bunch of parents who are just fed up. We live in the Rockaways. Bottom line is the city does not care. This is an educational issue. We, as local residents, have to fight to have our kids be in swimming classes. For example, we totally get there's a lack of lifeguards, when a crisis of hiring swim safety people, but the local YMCA has had opening slots for only six kids for swim safety. We are on a peninsula. How can we not offer swim safety to kids? Now, the people who are coming here who are drowning, unfortunately, are not from the area.

Last night, we had a meeting with an amazing organization called Rising Tide Effect, and the problem is lack of education. We're not saying, "Every school, go get a pool," this could be done in the classroom. What does a rip current look like? When should you and when you should not be going in the water? This is a common thing. Like local residents, we say, "Oh, how many people are going to die this year?" This should be a priority for New York City and the school system to teach kids what is water safety. Hello, we're surrounded by water, how is this not a priority? This is not an issue right now, this has been an issue here for years.

Brian: Yes. Adriana--

Adriana: Now, it's an issue? This is completely not acceptable.

Brian: Thank you for checking in. If education is one means to water safety in our city of water, Sean, in Queens, I think, has another one. Sean, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Sean: Hey, Brian. Good to be here. Thank you for inviting me on. I want to hit three issues. The longstanding problem about the lack of lifeguards, it's nothing new, but it has been exacerbated by COVID, for sure. One of the ways that we can help even the [unintelligible 00:18:31] situation that we're in today is to use technology. Our city lifeguards don't use technology. There are things available like jet skis for lifeguards to be out doing water patrols, drones for that extra pair of eyes over the water. There's even motorized rescue boards and other similar devices. There's even personal safety devices, wearables by waves, drowning detection systems, for example, which can be deployed and used to help with the lifeguard situation.

Beyond that, when you look at swimming pools, not just beaches, we have an issue where New York City requires you to swim a 50-yard length in 35 seconds or less. Particularly, with COVID, with people not being able to swim, that's a hard thing to do unless you are very strong competitive swimmer. If they change that requirement to the American Red Cross requirement, which is an untied 300-yard, 12 lengths of the pool, 25-yard pool swim, that would open up the opportunity for younger and older, even retired lifeguards to come back and offer their services. Then in terms of the swim lessons and programming that have been diminished, certainly Parks would collaborate with not-for-profits that would help if we could use their facilities. There's only five indoor facilities, but that would be a help. More lessons offered to more people. Then in terms of the last speaker who was on education, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. We offer know before you go in schools, which is an environmentally based water safety program. All of us need to have it. We've been pushing legislation to mandate it in New York State School.

Brian: With everything you bring up and the fact that you're from Queens, it reminds me that at my Queen's High School, we did have a pool and we did have to pass a swimming test as part of gym. I don't know if it was on the one standard or the other standard that you're raising, but do all the high schools have pools? It's something I took for granted.

Sean: Oh, Brian. Oh, Lord. Absolutely not. Oh, that's the other thing, to be able to collaborate with the Department of Education. Just before the Pandemic, they had a wonderful program. It was a hardship waiver. They basically removed the permitting cost for eligible, not-for-profits to use the space. It was a win-win for the not-for-profit and for the school which had underutilized pool facilities. Gosh, they have to bring that on now because we're dying. [laughs] We're struggling to get in and be able to pay for the permitting fees to teach our classes.

Brian: Sean, thank you for the call, and all that information, and for your work. Jake, as we run out of time, what might happen next? The non-lifeguarded open sand but closed water period is supposed to last into mid-July.

Jake: Yes, we asked Parks that we're going to get some more red flags and maybe some more of those enforcement patrol officers, not like guards, but the guys on ATV, men and women. I think the last caller made a really comprehensive plea for change. She mentioned a few things, including technology here, and that's something that I've heard a lot from lifeguards, actually. They don't have ATVs, even. They're stationary.

They can't patrol a 10-block stretch of beach that may not have a lifeguard assigned, but they just want to keep an eye on it. They don't have the tech for that right now. Drones, that's something that Australia has been using for years. They see someone struggling in the water, they send over a drone, and they drop a buoy. I don't know too much about it, but it seems to be fairly effective. As you know, this is a mayor who has said, over and over again, that he wants to embrace the most futuristic technological solutions. I'm curious if we do end up getting something more than just red flags at this point.

Brian: WNYC and Gothamist. Jake Offenhartz, his latest Gothamist story, Rockaway Drownings Prompt Scrutiny of Unsupervised Beaches. Jake, thanks for being on it.

Jake: Thanks, Brian.

Copyright © 2022 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.