[music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're going to do a call-in now for anyone who has already seen the film In The Heights, which was finally released last weekend. Did it live up to the hype? 646-435-7280. I haven't seen it yet myself, so you tell me, and you tell all our other listeners who haven't seen it yet but are interested. The musical, of course, is named in honor of New York's own Washington Heights, where the film takes place, plus it's the place where the writer Lin-Manuel Miranda was born and raised.

It's an area known for its vibrancy and currently, it's blend of Latino communities, both Puerto Rican and immigrant, after having been home to predominantly Jewish and Irish and other earlier immigrant groups previously. Since we are a show based in New York, let's open up the phones on how In The Heights look to you. If you are in the Heights, or if you are from the Heights, 646-435-7280. If you caught In The Heights, whether in theaters or at home, what did you think? Did you feel seen and represented?

Special priority going to Dominican listeners as well as listeners based in the Heights, did writer Lin-Manuel Miranda, and director Jon M. Chu, capture the spirit and history of the Heights in your eyes? 646-435-7280. Was there a character you most identified with? Maybe you grew up with a neighborhood Abuela, grandmother like the one in the film, or did any of you go away for university and have a negative experience being a first-generation college student as depicted? Or did you grow up with Los Suenos of moving back to the islands? We want to hear it all.

Again, the number is 646-435-7280. Broadway/Lin-Manuel Miranda fans, what did you think of the adaptation of the musical to film if you saw the play? Now that it's finally out, was the movie everything you were hoping for on the big screen. Did they leave any scenes on the cutting room floor or adapt well or badly any that you would want to tell us about in your eyes and ears? 646-435-7280.

We also have to acknowledge that there has been some serious criticism of the film from people who feel excluded, even erased. We all know Washington Heights as the melting pot of Latinx people from all over the diaspora, and conversations online and in theaters and in the press and in Afro Latinx communities are also centering around a surprising lack of representation of Afro Latinx people, in particular, in the primary cast. The feedback online was strong enough that Lin-Manuel Miranda himself issued an apology on Twitter and promised, "To do better in future projects."

We want your thoughts on that too. Do you agree with the criticism of the film if you are Afro Latinx and you've seen it? Are you okay with the film for all the good things that it does, or does this just leave you too bitter? 646-435-7280. As your calls are coming in, with us for a few minutes first to break down the critique of the film is Felice León, a writer, and video producer for The Root, who is both Afro-Cuban and a New York City native. Her article on The Root is called, Let's Talk About In the Heights and the Erasure of Dark-Skinned Afro-Latinx Folks. Thank you for joining the conversation, Felice. Welcome to WNYC.

Felice León: Thank you for having me.

Brian: The trailer for In The Heights came out way back in December 2019. Wasn't this already identified as an issue back then?

Felice: This absolutely was. We saw the trailer, and I am often on Twitter. There were many, many conversations about the fact that we could only at that point see who was Benny's character, was played by Corey Hawkins. He was the only person who was brown-skinned, darker-skinned, and the conversation continued on. That was a huge flag for us from there.

Brian: They couldn't fix it in all this time in production?

Felice: [laughs] That is a great question. I know that our conversation, my conversation with the cast specifically, we were talking about leads. The folks with storylines, and the folks who have arcs, could they fix it at that point? To be honest, I'm not sure if production could have, but they certainly did have a good amount of notice in terms of the reception of the trailer. Certainly could have foreshadowed this sort of feedback in regards to the Heights.

Brian: I mentioned that Lin-Manuel Miranda issued an apology just yesterday saying in part that he, "Hears that without sufficient dark-skinned, Afro Latino representation, the work feels extractive of the community we wanted so much to represent with pride and joy." Ouch, that coming from Lin-Manuel Miranda of all people, do you have a sense of how much he personally was responsible for this erasure?

Felice: My understanding is that Lin-Manuel Miranda, obviously he is the mastermind or one of the masterminds behind In The Highest. I would say one of the masterminds behind In The Heights. We know that also Jon M. Chu was, excuse me, is the director of the film as well. I am certain that he would have been able to have some influence in some sway. I would guess so.

Brian: Yes. For you as an Afro Latina, does this just cancel any joy you might've gotten from the film, or was it a mix, just for you personally?

Felice: Well, there were certainly-- I would like to say that I opened my interview saying that it was a lovely musical. There were certainly moments where that resonated with me, but I could absolutely not get past the fact that there was this erasure in the film. I would like to-- You mentioned bitter, you use the word bitter in your introduction, and I don't think that bitter is quite the word. I think it was disappointment. We were saddened, we were hurt. Some people were certainly angry because this has gone on really.

There's this history of erasure of dark skin, Afro Latino people. That is the nuance too. We're not talking about lights because they were certainly lighter Afro Latino people in the film, but dark skin Afro Latino people, Latinx people who have leads, who have storylines. Really this continues that legacy. This is why there was this outrage and this response, and this is why folks have really-- To go back to your question, I'm sure that there were certainly moments where people that resonated

with people and there were moments that resonated with me, but I absolutely could not look past this.

Brian: Felice León is a writer and video producer for The Root. She interviewed some cast members and the director of In The Heights and has an article on The Root called Let's Talk About In the Heights and the Erasure of Dark-Skinned Afro-Latinx Folks. Thank you for joining us.

Felice: Thank you so much for having me, Brian.

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We'll take your calls about In The Heights right after this. Daniella, in Brooklyn, you are on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Daniella: Thank you, Brian. Good to be on the radio. I did watch the movie first time at the movie theater, first of all, after a year and a half.

Brian: Yes, that by itself is a big deal, right?

Daniella: Yes, so it was. Thankfully, it wasn't so crowded for Chelsea. I did watch the video. There's a video on Instagram about The Root interview, and I do agree with it. There wasn't enough Afro Latina community, enough dark skin, and also at the same topic about colorism, about not having-- What we see in our communities, Latin communities. On the other side, I saw myself on the film. I am a DACA recipient. Seeing myself on the films touched me. Also about the Abuela part where I don't want to say it, but my mother passed--

Brian: Don't give away any endings.

Daniella: I know I try not to, but my mother passed away last year, and she was the Abuela in the neighborhood too. That completely--

Brian: You identified with?

Daniella: I was in tears, I was in tears with it and seeing the presentation, we don't see a lot of community-- That's why I even get emotional with everything. For the first time, I saw myself on the screen, plus the fact that I love my culture. My nationality is Mexican. I do agree and disagree with some parts, but honestly, from my point of view, I did love the movie. I think it was great. I loved the music. I love the Latinx community, how it's been more included into Hollywood. I guess that's it. [chuckles]

Brian: That's a lot.

Daniella: Thank you.

Brian: Daniella, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate it, and the emotion of the connection with the Abuela character and your own mother and the complexity of identification that you found and didn't find in the film. Thank you so much. Please call us again. Lisa in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lisa.

Lisa: Hi, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you?

Lisa: Can you hear me?

Brian: I can hear you.

Lisa: I'm fine, thank you.

Brian: Did you see the film in a movie theater or at home?

Lisa: I saw it at home. I'm not quite ready to go to the theater.

Brian: I hear you. Lots of people aren't. They're not filling up those seats yet. That's another show. What did you think of In the Heights?

Lisa: You know what, I just thought the changes in the storyline that they made for the film didn't do justice because the two big reveals, which is basically Abuela winning the lottery, and the second one when she dies. In the play, the actual play, she reveals that she won the ticket and everybody reacts to that, and then she dies, which has a completely different impact. In the film, it took all that away. It was like, "Okay, well," she finds out about the ticket after she has died and so there was not that emotional impact.

Brian: They changed the story? I apologize, listeners, we probably should have put a big fat spoiler alert on this segment.

Lisa: [laughs] Sorry.

Brian: They changed the storyline from the play is your point, and you think they changed it for the worse?

Lisa: I think so. I think it took away from the reaction to her winning the lottery ticket and then her giving it to him to do what he had to do and then dying, which then has a second emotional impact. I think that was changed. It didn't have that.

Brian: Lisa, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate it. Carol, in the Heights, Washington Heights, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in. Hi, Carol.

Carol: Hi. Let me first say I am so passionate about the neighborhood that I grew up in. I'm from Washington Heights and moved there as a little girl in 1964. No, I did not see the movie or the play, but I'm very disappointed that nothing is mentioned about the Black community. The fact that there's Rev. Ike Church right there, and Duke Ellington [unintelligible 00:13:36] home to Washington Heights. I remember as a child, the Italians, the Irish, the Jews, the Black shop owners, they all worked together peacefully side by side. Everyone looked out for everyone's child. Nothing is mentioned about that.

Brian: It could be seen as a defense in a certain way that this is more particularly about the Latino communities that have in more recent times become so dominant in the Heights that the old Jewish community, the old Irish community, the old Italian

community, they're not depicted either, and so it's a particular ethnic story.

Carol: It's heartbreaking.

Brian: Carol, I hear you. I hear the emotion in your voice, and I hear how much you love your neighborhood. Thank you very much. Ross, in the Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ross. Thanks for calling in.

Ross: Hi. I saw it. I liked it. I've lived in the Heights for six years, and the film doesn't reflect the neighborhood as I experience it, but it's entertaining. Perhaps if the name wasn't In the Heights, there would be less controversy, maybe if it was [unintelligible 00:15:10] or Little Dreams or whatever. The actors don't-- They look like some people but not the majority, but it was entertaining. I totally enjoyed it.

Brian: Ross, thank you very much. Cynthia, in the Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Cynthia.

Cynthia: Hello, how are you?

Brian: Good, and you? Did you see it?

Cynthia: Great. I did. I saw it on Saturday at the Lincoln Square AMC in a big giant movie theater. I loved it. I think the cinematography and the choreography were amazing. I am originally from San Antonio, a very, very Hispanic city, even though I'm an Anglo. What I do like about the film is that, yes, it focuses on the Latino community here, but I think that's great because I think there's been so many negatives portrayed about the Dominican community and other communities here that I just feel like this is a celebration.

It's not that they're excluding people, it's just a celebration of this community in this neighborhood. I loved it. I thought it was so happy, so uplifting. Some of the scenes when they're unfurling these huge vaults of different colored fabrics from the roofs of the buildings around the streets, the dancers below, it's so beautiful. It's so imaginative. I just loved it.

Brian: How was the scene in the theater? That's the one you said Lincoln Square, so Upper West Side Lincoln Center area?

Cynthia: Right. It was pretty full.

Brian: Pretty full?

Cynthia: Yes, but they'd made some kind of plan. It was a little confusing on buying your tickets, which seats were blocked out. They had left seats between people, but it was pretty full. I thought it was very beautiful. I feel it's a community that needs to have some positive recognition.

Brian: Well, welcome back to the movies. Cynthia, thank you for calling in. Thanks to all of you who called from the Heights and elsewhere about In the Heights. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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