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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, WNYC's lead Eric Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim. The only time each week that the Mayor will answer an array of reporters' questions is at his weekly Tuesday news conference. We've been having Liz on the show on Wednesdays with clips and analysis to keep you informed about the Mayor of New York, and what he's up to, and what he does means, and after journalists get their one weekly shot at asking him questions of their choice. Hi, Liz, thanks as always for doing this, and welcome back to the show.

Elizabeth Kim: Good morning, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Yesterday's news conference seemed to focus mostly on subway crime, why was that?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, subway crime is up 13% year to date, and that includes three fatal subway shootings. Just last Thursday, someone slashed a conductor in the neck while he was doing a routine safety check at a Brooklyn station. It's been said over and over, the subway is the lifeblood of the city. In order for the city to have an economic recovery from the pandemic, a successful economic recovery, the city and the Mayor really needs to get people back on the subways, and he has to reassure them that the subways are safe.

Now, while overall crime has been down, and I should emphasize that there are about 4 million rides on weekdays on the subway system. The uptick in crime remains a low risk that the risk of a person being a victim of a crime on the subway remains very low. At the same time, these are high-profile incidents, particularly the fatal shootings. The Mayor really wants to come out ahead of this issue and reassure New Yorkers that he has a handle on this. He has surged the number of police officers in the station.

There are about 1,000 more police officers, and yesterday, he announced that he's going to expand random bag searches. That's something that the city has done since 2005 that began because of fears of a terrorist attack on the subway. They've done it from time to time, but now he's saying that he's going to expand this. It's going to happen at major stations across the five boroughs.

Brian Lehrer: Can they search people's bags randomly under the law? I guess they can with no suspicion about the individual.

Elizabeth Kim: In 2005, the New York Civil Liberties Union actually brought a lawsuit against this, and they claimed that this was unconstitutional because it violates the Fourth Amendment, which protects people against unreasonable searches and seizures. They ultimately lost that case because the judge ruled that the checks were constitutional because, at the time, he said the intrusion was relatively minimal. He agreed that-- this argument that these searches could help prevent a terrorist attack.

I think what's interesting now is whether there will be another lawsuit because you could argue, in that moment in time, it was because it was right on the heels of bombings in London's underground transit system. The judge at the time said there was a real risk of a terrorist attack. At this point in time, the Mayor is really looking at violent crime in the subway system, but overall, and the Mayor himself will say, "Shootings are down, overall crime in the city is down." Can this justifiably be the reason why NYPD can pick up this practice again? I think it's going to be an interesting test, and it's something, I think, that civil liberties experts will probably be mulling in the next several days.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting, and didn't the Mayor also say that he might place metal detectors at some stations next to look for guns?

Elizabeth Kim: Right. This is something that the Mayor has talked about since last year when there was that mass shooting on a Brooklyn subway train, but the problem with that is that he feels that the technology just isn't there yet. He's not thinking about installing these metal detectors that we see at airports. That's not what he wants, and I don't think that he believes that that's viable. He has been out there looking for other possible innovations in the technology where they can detect weapons, in particular, guns. He says that there are two promising models that they've come across, but they're nowhere near a pilot yet, he says.

Brian Lehrer: Now, here's the Mayor. This is actually from New York 1 this morning where he appeared to reinforce the messages he was delivering at the news conference. Let's listen.

Mayor Eric Adams: We don't have a surge in crime. We have a surge in recidivism. Bad people, police are doing their job, making sure that people are apprehended. Prosecutors are doing their jobs, judges must do their job. That's what the criminal justice system is about. When we look at the bag checks and other methods, it is part of the overall public safety plan.

Brian Lehrer: In just those 24 seconds, Liz, there are a few things, I think, we could unpack and explain. One, the Mayor's distinction between a surge in crime and a surge in recidivism. What's the difference that he's trying to emphasize?

Elizabeth Kim: This is a theme that the Mayor has gone to again and again, is that this is about a small number of repeat offenders that he says are being arrested. I think he has, in the past, been critical of bail reform laws and also district attorneys, but now he's saying that judges must also do their jobs. Meaning that he's pointing the finger suggesting that judges are allowing these repeat offenders to be released before their trials. That's a theme, actually. That's a real theme that the top brass at the NYPD have been making in particular on their social media.

This was a story that I wrote last week that the chief of patrol, his name is John Chell, he was making the case about repeat offenders, and he cited a particular individual, and he went through a checklist and he says, "Let's see who's doing our jobs." He says, "The police arrested him, check. The DA requested that bail be required." Then he says, "But the judge didn't do her job."

It's interesting because he doesn't just say a judge didn't do her job by not requiring bail. He goes on to cite the specific name of the judge. That is quite an escalation in rhetoric, particularly coming from a chief. This is not the police commissioner, this is not the head of the police union. We know that they have historically been critical of the different actors in the criminal justice system, but this was from a chief, and it was later shared by other top brass in the NYPD.

The Mayor today coming out and singling out judges, and he did that in a subsequent interview later this morning as well. I think it's a sign that this is a coordinated message by the Mayor to put pressure on other actors in the criminal justice system that this is about repeat offenders, he says, and you guys have to step up and do your jobs. He's saying, "The NYPD, we're doing our jobs." Now he's putting pressure on the DAs and the judges.

Brian Lehrer: You reported on a case the other day where the NYPD named the wrong judge and the wrong prosecutor in a case they singled out.

Elizabeth Kim: Correct. That particular story I was talking about involving the chief of patrol, John Chell, it later turned out because a spokesman for the court system put out a statement saying that the judge that he named was the wrong judge. Not only was the judge wrong, the DA that Chell named in his post, he also went on to name a specific DA, that was also the wrong DA as well. It was quite ironic because when we reached out to the NYPD about this post, they were criticized by legal experts who said that this kind of specific naming of a judge puts judges in danger because we're in a very charged political climate.

Their response was, "No, this is something that we believe in. We want to hold judges accountable." The other thing they told us was, this is also about battling misinformation. It turned out to be quite ironic, and it was really this idea that they were battling misinformation, but they were, in fact, putting out misinformation. It really backfired on them.

Brian Lehrer: At least in that case. Are judges allowed to hit back at their critics if critics are allowed to criticize them publicly on social media around their decisions?

Elizabeth Kim: I think that there's nothing preventing a judge from going out on the record and saying something, but in general, they're quite reticent in terms of commenting. I reached out to this judge that was misnamed, for example, and did not receive a comment back. I was told by the spokesperson that they issued one statement. They just wanted to correct the record, get the facts out there that the judge named in the NYPD's post was incorrect, but that was all that they were willing to say.

Brian Lehrer: Also, at yesterday's news conference, the Mayor was asked about another FBI raid at the home of another close aide and fundraiser for him. This clip begins with the reporter's question.

Reporter: Another raid of another aide of another top fundraiser. It's now a round of guilty pleas and two federal raids. At what point do you question the confidence that you've publicly expressed? Have you lost that confidence?

Mayor Eric Adams: Well, what I have confidence is in my constant belief from my days of law enforcement, follow the law. That's what I have confidence in. I've confidence in instruction I give people who are around me. I say the same thing. I say, allow the inquiry to run its course, and that's the best that I can say. The inquiry should run its course.

Brian Lehrer: Liz, tell us more about this inquiry, particularly the FBI raid and where it fits into a bigger picture.

Elizabeth Kim: Last Thursday, FBI agents raided the home of Winnie Greco. She's a senior advisor to the Mayor who reports directly to him. She's Chinese-American and she works as a liaison to the Asian community. She was also very instrumental to his campaign as a fundraiser. The latest raid happens to come while she's under a city investigation. We don't know the details about that, but the investigation was prompted by the Mayor's Office after the news outlet the city reported that she had used her position for personal gain.

One of the accusations was that she had, for example, charged people to come to events that she had helped organize at Gracie Mansion. The mayor has not been accused of any wrongdoing, but this is now at least the third person that we know of in his inner circle who has had their home raided. The Mayor himself had his digital devices seized by the FBI in November. The fact that there are now been at least three raids that we know of, plus the Mayor, it suggests that something is intensifying here.

We do know that there is an ongoing investigation by the Southern District US Attorney's Office, and that's into his campaign activities. I think what's notable about how the Mayor answered that question yesterday was that initially, when he was asked about questions around his campaign, it was, "We run a very tight ship," and he had a lot of confidence in his team. Now, you see him responding by saying, "I know that I follow the law. I know that I give people instructions to follow the law."

I think once there have been at least three people who appear to be scrutinized for whatever they did in their work with the campaign, it becomes harder and harder for the Mayor to defend the campaign, especially if, in fact, there may be some kind of wrongdoing that's found by the investigators.

Brian Lehrer: As we run out of time, any indication when we'll know if anybody will actually be charged? The reelection campaign is still a year away, but that's only one year away.

Elizabeth Kim: No, Brian. That is one of the biggest questions that I think political reporters who cover the Mayor wake up every day wondering, "Will this be another day in which there will be another development in the investigation, or perhaps even indictments?"

Brian Lehrer: WNYC and Gothamist city hall reporter, our lead Eric Adams reporter, Liz Kim, who comes on with us every Wednesday after the Mayor's weekly Tuesday news conferences. Liz, thanks as always.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Brian.

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