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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer show, on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. On the White House South Lawn, President Biden signed the bipartisan infrastructure framework into law. One of the pillars of a so-called Build Back Better agenda. A trillion dollars will now go toward improvements and investments in roads, bridges, transportation, broadband utilities. Here's Biden yesterday.

President Biden: The bill I'm about to sign to law is proof that despite the cynics, Democrats and Republicans can come together and deliver results.

Brian Lehrer: The President has also urged Congress to advance the other parts of Build Back Better. The expansion of the social safety net and major climate action in the other bill that currently is stuck. We'll get a view now on the passage of this bill and other matters, local and national from Democratic Queens Congresswoman, Grace Meng, who was at the signing ceremony at the White House yesterday. She has also tweeted about the strong Asian-American vote for the Republican for mayor of New York Curtis Sliwa over Democrat and Mayor-elect Eric Adams and what it signals for next year's midterms.

Congresswoman Meng is on the House Appropriations Committee, which passes funding for every federal agency. She's a key voter in that respect. She's also in the House Progressive Caucus. Congresswoman Meng represents the 6th Congressional District, which includes parts of Flushing, Forest Hills, Fresh Meadows and other parts of North, Central and Eastern Queens. Congresswoman Meng, always great to have you on, welcome back to WNYC.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: Thanks, Brian. Great to be back. Hi everyone?

Brian Lehrer: We have all these issues to get into, the Asian-American vote for Sliwa. What happens next with Build Back Better. But first you were at the signing. How did it feel? What was the atmosphere like?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: It was really awesome. The temperature was very cold, but the environment was very warm and we know that we are so happy because we are able to deliver much needed help for our country and helping create more jobs. Hopefully, with the soon to be passed Build Back Better Act to make really important investments. A once in a generation opportunity for so many families who've too often been left behind.

Brian Lehrer: You are in the House Progressive Caucus, as you know, a few progressives from the city voted no. Because they didn't want to even vote on this physical infrastructure bill without the human infrastructure bill tied to it, fearing they would lose the leverage over people like Joe Manchin on that. AOC voted no, Jamal Bowman voted no. Why'd you vote yes?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: We have commitments from some of our own Caucus members that they will vote on this Build Back Better Act by November 15th. The CBO score likely comes out this Friday, but even aside from that, we have commitments from them. We want to make sure that they keep their promise. We need to make sure that we are going to pass the Build Back Better Act before we head home for Thanksgiving. I'm confident and optimistic, especially with the leadership of people like speaker Pelosi and our Progressive Caucus chairwoman, Pramila Jayapal who have literally been working day in and day out to ensure that both of these bills pass. Even the Vice President Kamala Harris said yesterday, that yesterday's bill signing was only part of the larger infrastructure package, that will literally transform our nation.

Brian Lehrer: Which doesn't get it through the Senate, and you still need Manchin and Sinema. Ritchie Torres Congressman from the Bronx, who's also in the Progressive Caucus, and also voted yes, was on the show last week. He said, he thinks it's a myth that you all had more leverage over Manchin and Sinema, by holding back the Physical Infrastructure Bill. That it's really irrelevant to what ultimately they decide to do on the Human Infrastructure Bill. Do you agree with that?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: Well, honestly, I think that we spent too much time talking about process and procedure. We want to make sure that we are putting forth plans to transform the working family's quality of life in this country. I just came from a rally with 1199, with moms, with home care workers. People who have too often been left behind, and this is our chance to make sure that we are helping the over 1 million moms who had to leave the workforce because of the COVID pandemic. We need to put these bills on the floor. People can and should vote how they want, but they are accountable to their constituents. Do they want to help people or not?

Brian Lehrer: If you get it through, it's going to be an interesting set of talking points for Democrats I think in swing districts around the country. Since every Republican it looks like, is going to vote no. You voted against a few weeks of paid family leave. You voted against pre-K for all the kids in America. You voted against more home health aids for grandma and our aging population. We'll see if you get to that, that's if you pass the bill, but first you have to pass it. You mentioned the CBO score a minute ago. I think this is the looming big story that a lot of people don't understand what it means yet.

The Congressional Budget Office, which is nonpartisan or bipartisan, by Friday is supposed to come out with a score, which is to say whether this bill, $1.75 trillion over 10 years will increase the deficit or not. Or if it's paid for by the tax hikes on the wealthiest Americans and non-corporations. If they come out with a zero CBO score, which is I think what you're hoping for, that there's no impact on the federal debt. It seems to me that's transformative in the political conversation, both with Manchin and Sinema, and to embarrass the Republicans who are going to vote no, as a block. How important is the CBO score?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: What we don't talk about enough is that the bill is totally paid for. It is a bill that will only affect those who make over $400,000 a year. All this legislation is essentially lowering taxes for middle class and working families, the bill is fully paid for. I work with some hypocrites in Congress for some members who vote-- Like the Republicans who vote against the bill, their same Republican governors are back home touting the legislation and looking these constituents in the eye, bragging about bills that their Republican house members literally voted against.

Brian Lehrer: What if the CBO comes out with the score higher than zero on the impact of the deficit, do you lose your neighboring Congressman to the east, Tom Suozzi? Do you lose Josh Gottheimer in New Jersey? Only a few Democrats need to say this is too expensive for it to fail even in the house.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: I hope not, because they made a commitment to vote for the legislation. They did not even specifically say that they are only waiting for the CBO score. We want to make sure that they keep to their commitment. They should not drag this out any longer than needed. It's time to finish the job. We are literally steps away from creating millions of jobs in this country.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, some phone calls for Congresswoman Grace Meng of Queens. Our lines are open, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or you can tweet a question or a comment @BrianLehrer. In a speech at the signing ceremony yesterday, Biden spoke with Senator Chuck Schumer, as well as you there. About seeing the aftermath of extreme weather events in recent months, he said he went to Louisiana after Hurricane Ida, and then--

President Biden: Then I headed on up to New York. Chuck I was up in your area, in Queens, in New Jersey. More people died there than in the hurricane. More people died with the flooding. Record wildfires, rains. I went to Idaho and California and saw more land is burning to the ground than the entire state of New Jersey out West. Folks walk the neighborhoods and look the people in the eye, in these circumstances as many of you have, and you'll see the despair in the heartache. So many of you understand, you're living through it.

Brian Lehrer: President Biden yesterday at the signing ceremony, Congresswoman Meng was there. What do you think this is going to mean specifically for your district? Talk to your constituents who were listening in Flushing and thereabouts, infrastructure wise. When I was a kid growing up right around there, people used to fantasize about the number 7 train being extended all the way out to the Nassau County line. We didn't have to take a bus into Flushing first to get to the city, that's not happening. What do you hope will happen?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: My district was one of the hardest hit from Hurricane Ida and the aftermath of the flooding. We lost six constituents due to drownings. I was heartened to have president Biden visit our County of Queens, and even as you heard mention Queens in his speech yesterday. I looked him in the eye and told him how many of my constituents died from the flooding that night. I am hopeful for this legislation, this Infrastructure Bill to help repair much needed infrastructure in our Queen Streets. Some families have experienced this before. We need to make sure we have a more robust catch basin and sewer system.

We need to learn from our past gaps and where we can better fix. We need to make sure that we are addressing climate change adequately to improve our infrastructures against the more often extreme weather that we are having. This legislation helps in other areas too. Clean water, we're going to revamp all the lead pipes that pump out lead water. Queens has one of the highest amounts of lead in our parks, in New York City parks compared to the rest of the city. We need to make sure that we're doing right by our families.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call Gary in Queens against raising taxes on corporations in this climate of inflation. Gary you're on WNYC with Congresswoman Meng.

Gary: Hi, Brian. Corporations never pay taxes, they pass along the increases to consumers and the consumers have to pay higher prices. Same thing with rich people. Rich people don't put their money in the ground. They invest it and investments create profit making businesses. When businesses make profits they create jobs. People are going to suffer. It's a money transfer scheme. That's all this is.

Brian Lehrer: Gary. Thank you. Congresswoman, what about his argument?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: This legislation as I mentioned, the Build Back Better Act, is paid for. It will charge the wealthiest of people and our multinational corporations simply to pay their fair share. Our average home care worker, our average moms should not be paying more taxes than some of our wealthiest companies. It establishes new taxes on some of these corporations who are making over a billion dollars a year in profits. Gary is right, normally under the current system there are loopholes from Medicare tax loopholes, to stock buybacks, to the Trump rebate rule that was passed under the former administration. We need to make sure that the wealthiest who are literally earning money off the backs of our everyday working families, that they're paying their fair share.

Brian Lehrer: What about his central argument that the tax hikes on corporations just get passed along to the consumers in higher prices, it's not that they eat less profits.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: I don't believe that, and if we're going to talk about trickle down economics I think we have seen that that doesn't really work either. We are just literally asking people to pay their fair share.

Brian Lehrer: Tom in Queens. You're on WNYC with Congresswoman Grace Meng. Hi, Tom.

Tom: How are you doing Brian? Thanks for my call. I hear all this talk about people paying fair share, especially the wealthy. It seems hypocritical to me because a big part of this plan is the Democrats wanting to suspend the state and local tax deduction which is more or less a direct tax on wealthy Democrats. I don't know. I'd like to get her thoughts on that one. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Congresswoman Meng, did the infrastructure bill include a partial repeal of the SALT tax deduction cap and I'll explain this in a line for our listeners who don't know what that is. SALT stands for state and local taxes, and it used to be that you could deduct from your federal income tax whatever state and local tax you paid. Then under Trump they capped that at $10,000. Some of your colleagues like Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, like Bernie Sanders in the Senate from a progressive standpoint say we should keep that cap. Because if you're paying more state and local tax than that then you're probably pretty well off. Why restore it to the way it was and give the wealthier constituents a tax break right now when we're trying to pay for all this stuff. I know there's another way to look at it, so which way do you?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: We want to make sure we're helping as many families as possible, and so the SALT deduction is part of the Build Back Better Act. It will actually raise the current $10,000 cap on the deduction that is in place under current law through 2025, to 72,000 I believe through 2031. That's something that will be addressed in the Build Back Better Act that we will hopefully vote on soon.

Brian Lehrer: That $80,000 limit, instead of a $10,000 limit you're hoping that takes care of say the retired senior citizen who's a homeowner and is paying a lot in property taxes on Long Island, or Westchester, or Bergen County or wherever, but doesn't have a lot of income. It will not protect those who are really making a lot of money who pay more than $80,000 in state and local taxes. Is that basically the point?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: Correct, and I think it'll be capped at about 72,000.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you about the local elections this month. Republicans as you know gained ground in a handful of assembly districts in Queens. They didn't win the seats, but they got large Asian-American votes apparently. We had Ron Kim, assemblyman from Queens on the show last week for example, very progressive member of the assembly. The people who voted for him in his assembly district did not apparently carry the day, or they switched to the Republican Curtis Sliwa for mayor, because Sliwa carried that assembly district.

You wrote a on Twitter, "Our party better start giving more of an S--T," rhymes with a flick, "about AAPI voters, Asian-American and Pacific Islander voters and communities. No other community turned out at a faster pace than a AAPIs in 2020." Why do you think the vote turned out the way that it did, more for Republicans than in the past?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: I think that Democrats overall need to do a better job at outreach. It is true that in the 2020 elections the Asian-American Community which is the fastest growing community in this country turned out electorally at a higher and faster pace than any other community in our battleground states and helped propel Joe Biden to victory. That was after years of historical investment and outreach. What we saw whether it's in New York to Virginia was that we wanted Democrats to continue that outreach and to make sure that we are expanding the level of outreach.

It is both about having a message but also about having a messenger. We need to make sure that we are listening authentically to the Asian-American Community and to include them as we're having discussions about education for example. We cannot and should not be left out. We need to be part of the conversations. We just want to make sure that we are being heard.

Brian Lehrer: Is it not also the issues? Assemblyman Kim said on the show last week when I asked him about this, that Democrats seem to have lost ground in the city among Asian-Americans because of mayor de Blasio's stances on things pertaining to small business and things pertaining to education. Particularly the specialized high school admissions test which de Blasio wanted to abolish. I don't think that's Eric Adams position, and doing away with the G&T program in the elementary schools which again is not Eric Adams position. It would indicate that there's a perception rising in the community that the Democrats don't have the community's interests at heart, the Republicans do.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: Of course, the issues and the message itself are very important. When we're talking about gifted and talented, when there is a lack of diversity and not enough programs the answer is to fix them and to expand them, not to eliminate them. Even in my own district, there are middle schools in more affluent areas, every one of which has a gifted program. Then there are middle schools in my less affluent and more diverse areas who have zero gifted and talented programs. I'm not an expert, but that's a pretty easy fix. If you put gifted and talented accessibility for every student in this city in every zip code, that will diversify the program.

We're talking about lack of diversity in our high schools. There are high schools that are not as diverse as they should be, but Asian-Americans may not be the majority. Are we taking a look at those schools, or are we just analyzing the schools that have a larger percentage or Asian majority? We can't target where and when we want to address a lack of diversity in our schools.

Brian Lehrer: Larry in Chelsea you are on WNYC with Congresswoman Grace Meng. Hi, Larry. Whoops. I have to actually put Larry onto the air to get him. Hi, Larry. I'm sorry. We have you now.

Larry: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can. Yes, you're on. Go ahead.

Larry: Wonderful. Raising taxes on people making $400,000 a year, if you're in the middle of the country, maybe you are raising taxes on the rich. If you're on the Coast, you're raising taxes on middle class. There are people who have one or two kids in private schools and they're barely making ends meet because the cost of living is much in the Coast than it is in the middle of the country. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Larry's line is breaking up really badly, but I heard his question. Congresswoman, $400,000 isn't rich in New York City, it is rich in places in the middle of the country with a much lower cost of living. What do you say to that when you're looking at $400,000? When Biden uses $400,000 as the national cutoff, one size fits all for who should pay more to be paying their fair share of taxes?

Congresswoman Grace Meng: To be clear, the bulk of the way that this bill is paid for will be by making sure that our largest multinational corporations are paying their fair share. Also that our highest income individuals are first paying their fair share. It's going to have, for example, a new tax on the income of multimillionaires and billionaires, the wealthiest less than 1% of people in our country. It is a staggered array, but we want to make sure that at the very least the highest earners in this country are paying their fair share.

Brian Lehrer: In New York, the numbers that I've seen, if you make over $250,000 a year, you're in the top 5%. People may have certain perceptions about their own place on the economic ladder, but if you're making $400,000 in New York, you're still in the top few percent of earners even with the cost of living here. I think that's a pretty well-known stat.

I know you got to go, just give me 30 seconds on how the Democrats-- You are in the democratic leadership in the house. How the Democrats hold Congress in 2022, the history would suggest, and the current trending of polling and the outcome this month would suggest that you're in trouble.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: We are not letting history or convention predetermine our path. This is not just about Democrats controlling any party or legislative body. This is literally about making sure that we are preserving our democracy. We are going to fight as hard as we can to get the message out. We did the hard part, we passed legislation on infrastructure. Then the other necessary part is to get the message out to the American people about what we've done, how it helps them put food on the tables for their families.

This is about making sure that we are not letting the party who basically allows and continues to promote the lie of January 6th, back into control of the house. American lives and families and our country's democracy are at stake. We're not going to let history predetermine what we think will happen. We are going to make sure that we're getting the message out about this amazing legislation that we have passed. Make sure that people know and feel how it helps them in their day-to-day lives. Onto victory, I believe it.

Brian Lehrer: Congresswoman Grace Meng, Democrat from Queens, thank you so much for coming on today. We always appreciate it.

Congresswoman Grace Meng: Thanks Brian. Thanks everyone.

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