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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning everyone. Can a New Yorker help the House Democrats hang on to their majority any better than someone from Peoria did? We're about to find out. America, are we ready for the first Latino to head the Department of Health and Human Services at a time when Latinx Americans are being disproportionately killed by COVID-19? If confirmed by the Senate, we are about to find out.

America are we ready for the first African American to lead the House Foreign Affairs Committee? Yes, we are about to find out, and let's meet him. He is congressman Gregory Meeks of Southeast Queens and a little bit of Nassau County. It's from roughly Jamaica and Richmond Hill down through the Rockaways and JFK Airport and into a sliver of Nassau around Elmont in Valley Stream. He's been in the house since 1998, and he is now succeeding another new yorker as foreign affairs committee chair Eliot Engle from Westchester in the Bronx, who lost his reelection bid. Congressman Meeks, congratulations on your chairmanship, and welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Gregory Meeks: Thank you, Brian, good to be with you. My pleasure being with you.

Brian: Thinking about the geography of your district, which I just went over there. I think it's appropriate that the congressman from JFK Airport would be the Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman, because in normal times at least, there may be more people from more countries in JFK Airport than any square mile in the world. Have you ever thought of it that way?

Congressman Meeks: I absolutely have. We always have talked about queens being a actual visit of the United States of America, and people all over the world being the UN. All of Queens, yes. It's like the mini UN. You couldn't be in a better place and people have made America a much greater place because of the diversity that it has, it has in Queens, but many still have interest all around the world. You can talk about over 180 languages spoken in Queens. You talk about different cultures and different religions and ethnicities. It is perfect for me now chairing the committee and when we get to the 117th Congress because I have all of the experts right there in all of Queens County.

Brian: People say JFK Airport is the new Ellis Island. We'll get into foreign affairs here in a minute, and China and the Middle East and President Trump's lame-duck troop withdrawals from three different continents, but your district, largely African American, I think it's accurate to say largely working in middle class. I think it's accurate to say I'm guessing foreign relations is not their main concern, compared to the domestic concerns like the economy and health care, correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe that's true of any district in the United States, but why is this the chairmanship you are interested in rising up to and how does it serve the people of your district?

Congressman Meeks: Well, just as we just talked about all of Queens, so is my district very diverse in that regard, but when we talk about safety, when we talk about making sure that the quality of life as far as the cost of goods and services are concerned, when you talk about creating jobs, we live in a world now that is so interconnected, that it affects us domestically at home, you cannot isolate yourselves in foreign policy, without it not having a direct effect at home. When there is an economic issue, as we had back in 2008, it affected around the world.

If there was a crisis in some other part of the world, as we see right now with this pandemic, it affects us right here. When we talk about climate, it's not just the United States, we've got to deal with other countries around the world, to make sure that we preserve this planet so that we can all breathe clean air. Dealing with the Foreign Affairs Committee has a relationship on the everyday lives of individuals in my district and working together.

One of the things that I intend on doing as chair is to make sure that we're working with other committees because the Foreign Affairs Committee cannot work in and of itself. If you're talking about Energy and Commerce, that's international affairs is connected therein. If you're talking about the quality of education for folks, that's also International. There's very few things that we can talk about today that what we're dealing with, as far as foreign policy is concerned, that also does not have a direct result to everyday living right here in the United States.

Brian: Listeners, we can take phone calls for Congressman Gregory Meeks, from Queens and Nassau County, now named as the new chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee when the new Congress convenes after the new year. We can take phone calls for him on anything pertaining to the work of Congress. Some of you may want to call on the COVID relief bill, the progress toward that which we will definitely talk about, as well as any foreign affairs related issues, 646-435-7280.

We'll also talk about how close the Democrats came to losing their house majority, something nobody predicted, and why he thinks that is and what he thinks the current Democratic majority in Congress can do to prevent actually losing it in 2022, which would not be an uncommon outcome. Presidents in the first midterm election that they sit for often lose seats from their party in the house. It's fair to say the Democrat's majority itself is at risk in the house. Any of these things, and foreign affairs too, of course. 646-435-7280, for Congressman Meeks. 646-435-7280, or tweet a question @BrianLehrer.

So many things on the table that I just laid out there Congressman, but let me go to some things in the news that do relate to foreign affairs. President Trump on Friday announced plans to bring most of the 700 US troops home from Somalia. Most Americans probably don't have troops there at all, but this adds to his plan withdrawals from Iraq, and 2,000 troops from Afghanistan, and 12,000 troops from Germany. We have 34,000 Americans stationed in Germany according to military.com, which reports that at least the Germany and Afghanistan drawdowns would be blocked by the massive defense policy bill now headed to his desk. What's your position on this?

Congressman Meeks: Well, especially dealing with Afghanistan and Somalia, I'm very concerned about the president acting now. We're just under just about 40 days away from a new administration. I think that he should not tie the hands of the president-elect coming in, he should be going through the transition, getting the information that the current administration has going to the individuals that he would put in his administration so that he can make the appropriate decisions.

Now, I'm one for and I do, I've talked previously that we do at some point need to make sure that that we are drawing down troops, but we got to do so carefully. We got to do so smartly. In Afghanistan, for example, we still have the Taliban there. You don't want all the work that has been done because we just not-- We don't do it on a smart basis just drawing down for the sake of drawing down where there's a resurgence.

That's where the intelligence and the conversation and the talk between a president-elect in the transition should be taking place so that we can make sure that that is in fact happening. You talk about Somalia, there's an issue that the whole region is in a very tentative situation right now. It's got to be done, but it's got to be done very smartly and very slowly in my estimation.

Brian: It seems to me the write is contradictory on this because conservative politicians these days led by President Trump tend to say America first and that the countries we've got troops in are getting over on us by having us spend money on their defense when we could be spending it on Americans, but then Trump and his allies boast about the biggest defense buildup in history and rip the Democrats for wanting to reduce the military budget at all. Do you see the contradiction in that?

Congressman Meeks: Absolutely. There's a big contradiction in that. That's why I said it focuses and it's politics in that, as opposed to doing what's the right thing for America and in dealing in most of these scenarios. What the Trump administration says, let's do it by ourselves, as opposed to engaging with other countries and working together to deal with some of these crises. There's a full of contradictions in what they have, and continue to say, especially this president.

Brian: For you as a progressive Democrat, why wouldn't you be in favor of these drawdowns? I saw progressive California congressman Ro Khanna and Glenn Greenwald from the intercept, both went on Fox News last week because strange bedfellows maybe with the Fox News hosts, but the populist America first wing seems to have a similar position to the progressive anti-US imperialism peace camp to not be the world's policemen or the world's occupier, depending on your point of view and spend money on this country's problems instead. Why wouldn't that be your position?

Congressman Meeks: No, that's not my position. My position is what I said that I do believe that we should begin and look drawing down, but not just to put out to say that we're pulling out, it's got to be done in a very smart way and we've got to work with others. It is not just America by itself. The problem that we've had recently in my estimation is as foreign policy, we need to say it's America first or America only, both are bad foreign policies.

That's why we've got to work with other allies and come up with a collective decision on how we deal in these volatile areas. It is something because if we don't then it still is something that can come back home to bite us. For America's security, it is working multilateral relationships trying to figure these things out and working collectively with others is how we get it done so that you don't have a resurgence of the Taliban, for example, and then we get back to where we were almost 20 years ago, but you've got to be able to do it and to do it we're going to have to do it with others.

Brian: Congressman Gregory Meeks with us from Queens and Nassau County, the new incoming chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, congressman, it's historic, of course, that you're the first Black chair of Foreign Affairs. I'm going to ask you, is it also significant in policy terms based on what you bring to it with your background and life experience or anything else?

Congressman Meeks: Absolutely. You'll see also for me as an African-American and looking at the issues around the world, I think it's tremendously important to understand that there are, for example, our own hemisphere dealing with Central and South America in a different manner that we've had in the past. My bringing up and upbringing, and as you've indicated, the top of the show living in Queens County gives me a different perspective on how, and we need to talk and work with others.

We've not paid enough attention, I don't think, to the continent of Africa to some of the Caribbean islands [unintelligible 00:12:51] that on top of that, so I'm going to bring that perspective to it, and then to just having a deep respect for all the cultures. I think that's why the United States is the greatest country on this planet because you've got people that was either brought here in the halls of slave ships, as my ancestors were, or others who were indigenous to this land, like the Native Americans.

I bring that sensitivity when we look at folks, for example, that are indigenous to other lands or others where those that had been enslaved was brought there. I'm going to that perspective to this also, but then understanding in places like Japan, or North, or South Korea or in the Philippines, their history and what they brought to the world and have brought to the United States, treating people with respect is tremendously important.

Brian: What's an example of a particular policy that you might push. I realize Congress, even as chair of the foreign affairs committee in the House, you have only a certain limited amount of power over foreign affairs which largely rests in the executive branch with the president, but with all those examples you gave and that awareness of diversity around the world and people's experiences around the world who aren't from Europe, is there an example of a policy you can say that you would advocate toward anywhere take your pick that might reflect that positioning that you just described?

Congressman Meeks: Yes, look, I've done a lot of work in my career, for example, in Colombia, like what had been neglected for a long time in Columbia as we look and miraculous changes in places like Bogota and Cartagena, but if you go to places like Chocó or Buenaventura on the Pacific coast, where there are individuals who are ancestors of slavery also brought from Africa had been no attention there, so the talk about trying to make sure that you do improving infrastructure, there, making sure that we are competing with because here is where it also becomes to our benefit.

We've got China now, for example, trying to go into some of these areas to say that they will be helpful, but when we know they don't bring the same values that we do, that we've got to make sure that we're there to compete with China to one degree, but bringing our values to it. It's really going to bring some sustainability to the area that's going to make a difference for folks in these remote places that ultimately will make a difference for us too because when we talk about individuals are charged to immigrate to the United States, just because of the fact that they don't have the opportunities in their own native land.

By having that kind of focus, we are helping individuals and other countries and this example on our own hemisphere, but we're also helping without, for ourselves, the immigration issue that we've been dealing with for a long period of time in the United States. I'm going to bring that to the forefront. I think that's tremendously important.

Brian: One of the issues in Eliot Engel's race, your predecessor as Foreign Affairs chair, and for people who don't understand how this works, he wasn't competing against Congressman Meeks who's from another part of New York, he was competing against his own primary candidate in his own district in the Bronx in Westchester, and he lost that race.

Now, Congressman Meeks, is one of the senior people on the Foreign Affairs Committee gets elevated to the chairmanship, but one of the issues in Eliot Engle's race in his district was that he was so supportive of Israel to reflexively for some of his constituents just right for others. Now he's gone from the position you're assuming as foreign affairs committee chair out of the House altogether, is there a contrast that you would make between you and Engel on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Congressman Meeks: Look, there's no question that Israel is one of our strongest and best allies in the Middle East and around the world. We've got to make sure that we stand by Israel and their right to defend themselves, but at the same time, I think that it is important that the way to really have a true peace in the middle East is a two-state solution and that two-state solution means that we have to get the Palestinians back to the table to have that dialogue and conversation and to make sure that there is not further annexation of land because if you allow and agree with the further annexation of land and Israel, then you have no territory of which to deal with for two-state solution.

I think that what I'll focus would be, what my focus will be is to get the sides to the table to have some actual real negotiations so that we can try to get a true peace in the Middle East, which will benefit both the Palestinians as well as the Israelis and as a result, I think that we could try to finally get to a place of the Middle East where we could have some peace and instead of folks the Palestinians and Israelis fighting one another to figure out how they can do commerce to support one another.

I say that, understanding that I've been to Israel where I've gone and seen some of the tunnels that was dug by the Palestinians to try to get into Israel. That's why has to have the right to protect itself, but we really have to get into a scenario where as the United States, we're talking about folks getting together, negotiating a true peace by establishing a two-state solution.

Brian: In your opinion, do some of these treaties that the Trump administration brokered between Israel and some of the Gulf Arab nations contribute to a solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or isolate the Palestinians too much and remove leverage from them if these other Arab countries have already made their peace with Israel?

Congressman Meeks: No, I think that that's the one piece that I agree with and I would hope that those Arab States would now encourage the Palestinians to come to the table to negotiate a true peace deal. One of the things that I used to say all the time is with the Arab States, "How can you get a peace with Israel if you don't acknowledge Israel's right to exist?" If you did not make that acknowledgement, then there's no room to negotiate a two-state solution because on one side, you're saying that some folks should not be there.

Clearly, that's not the right way to have peace. I look at it as a great opportunity by the UAE and Bahrain and I hope other Arab States begin to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and start working together and then as a result, those Arab States work with many in Palestine to say, "Well, now, let's get to the table and negotiate further peace so that you too can have a kind of relationships that we're trying to have right now with Israel."

I hope that there are other Arab States that come and follow and begin to have diplomatic relationships with Israel and as a result, the entire region, including the Palestinians now try to focus on having a true and real peace in the region. Understanding that Israel has a right to as well exist.

Brian: John, in Brooklyn, you're on w NYC with Congressman Gregory Meeks from Queens and Nassau, newly named chairman of the foreign affairs committee of the house. Hi, John.

John: Hi, good morning to all of you.

Congressman Meeks: Good morning.

John: I have an idea about the Black caucus. I wish the Black caucus can represent for the community as a leader where all Black with millions, of billions of whatever thousands or we can create some investment where we can develop opportunities for education, for medical, for everything. Also, I have an example about [unintelligible 00:22:23] in Haiti, after he give up everything he had, he said he cannot live happy when he sees his race is being tortured during the slavery time.

He united everybody, every little group that was fighting, make it such big army that's when Haiti defeated, English, French, and Spanish, and Haiti is paying the price for today. The question I have, after more than 30 years of dictatorship of Duvalier, that they were put in there. The first democratic elected president Haiti had which was Jean-Bertrand Aristide, why when George Bush kidnapped that president leading Haiti in that situation it is today and Democrat was the mother of democracy around the world did not stand and say, "No, that should not happen."

Brian: John, let me bring you up to the present because we could talk about that past US policy toward Haiti. What would you like to see the United States do today under a President Biden and the house foreign affairs committee led by Congressman Meeks?

John: What I would like to do to see happen to restore democracy in Haiti. Right now, since they had Coup d'état is become a lot of gangs with a lot of different weapons and they put in power, there were not people-- The Haitian people who put them, the United States put them, such as the guy who's here, the United States who put them, the guy who was before that Martelly, the United States put them. We want people that Haiti can elect. Not being selected by the United States, just for the insurance of the United States.

Brian: I understand Congressman Meeks. How do you react to any of that? And do you think the United States controls Haiti too much?

Congressman Meeks: What I think that the United States needs to do, and it's got to be one of them countries that we will have a focus on in our committee is to try to help and working with the UN and others, so it's not just the United States. That's why I believe in multilateral relationships so no one can say, "It's just the United States," but so that we can do institutional building.

What has been a problem in my estimation and the several times that I've gone down to Haiti and as I've talked to-- I've got a number of Haitians here in my congressional district, et cetera. We've got a bail institutions and have a checks and balance there and it's got to be done with the UN, with the people of Haiti so that we can have a strong stability institutions like the judicial system, institutions like the economic systems that's what makes a government work with people can depend upon their government to give and work and serve them for their everyday needs.

There's got to be capacity building so that individuals there can be able to work and create jobs by fixing their infrastructure. We've understood after the great and unfortunate earthquakes that have taken place and then storms thereafter, that the infrastructure in Haiti has been devastated, but you've got to create the capacity so that individuals could help preserve and build-up that infrastructure along with the government. It is going to take a number of us in order to do that. I don't think that the United States should prop-up anyone as far as needed, but the United States and others should be able to be helpful to make sure that there are legal free, and fair elections. That's what I think that the focus should be.

Brian: You mentioned your interest in the nation of Columbia here is one of your constituents, apparently, Martha in the Rockaways who has a follow-up on that. Martha on WNYC with Congressman Meeks. Hello.

Martha: Hi, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I just wanted to get more information on the harm that was caused in Columbia in the name of free trade and close ties with right-wing paramilitary group. How does that progress the United States of America? I just want a little bit more information.

Congressman Meeks: Let's just talk about that. Number one, when you look at those areas, even before the Colombia agreement, the violence, the neglect, the lack of connection to the central government existed. It wasn't the free trade agreement that caused the problems that we've seen in Columbia. It has been that no one had been dealing in that area since the 60s really and individuals. What the focus has been is to reduce the violence and the violence had been reduced compared to what it was 25, 30 years ago.

Now, there's recently been an uptick, which is why I've been focused down there. In fact, after this call, I'll be on the line with a number of African Colombian mayors and throughout the various cities in Colombia, trying to work together to try to make sure that we can bring in health facilities to fight the Coronavirus issues that are taking place down there. Trying to create opportunities so that you don't have whether it's the right-wing militants or the narco-traffickers, or others that have been there destroying and devastating the people in those areas.

They had not been the type of, I think of law enforcement and others to help protect the people of Colombia in those particular areas. The whole focus, in fact, before I got involved there had never been an Afro-Colombian that was ever involved in the government itself and in the administration, we were able to change that and now we've got two or three and more governors that have been elected. That's going to be focusing so they can have a voice in the Colombian government directly and that's what this is about.

Brian: I know people will disagree on that in some quarters, but before we run out of time, I want to get your report to the entire listening area, the entire country on the very important domestic policy issue right now of the COVID relief bill. Here is Senator Chuck Schumer over the weekend on the economic emergency that so many Americans are facing because of COVID with much of the current relief provisions about to expire later this month.

Chuck Schumer: It's called the Christmas cliff on December 26, over a million New Yorkers and 13 million Americans will be cut off from unemployment insurance if we don't do something quickly.

Brian: Now it seems like speaker Pelosi is ready to compromise on a bill that's less than $1 trillion when the original bill will have in the house was more than $2 trillion, will you vote for it and what can our listeners expect?

Congressman Meeks: Yes, we're getting close to an agreement because we do have to do something to help individuals who have been devastated by the coronavirus. Look, we passed almost five months ago the HEROES Bill that was $3.2 trillion because we know of the longterm aid that's needed to get people back on their feet and keep others from being evicted from their homes or their apartments, small businesses from closing up forever, people who are unemployed, that's the reason why we came with the most comprehensive bill because we know it was going to be needed.

They said it did nothing. Now, we are trying to negotiate a bill and I should tell you that that bill was for long term. It seems as though the Republicans and McConnell, almost having an agreement for $1.8 trillion. McConnell then said, no-- told the president not to agree to it because it would divide his the Republican caucus. He still hasn't agreed to this $900 billion, he's gone down to $500 and at the time he didn't want any aid for cities and states.

We've now got an agreement and by this group, that's come together to make sure that there's aid to cities and states. and but it is for a shorter term and that's what I think we're looking at now. I know it's a small amount of money, less than what I would like to do, but it's for four months. It's also to give the opportunity for the Biden administration to get into place and then we need to go back at it again and look to see what we need to do to make sure that we continue to get people back on their feet because we know that in just four months, everyone isn't still not going to be on their feet.

We know we still going be in the middle of this pandemic and hopefully looking down the road where we are to get out of it, but we'll be able to see in four months where we are with the vaccine, where we are with people testing, and tracing. Then make a determination at that point, what additional resources are necessary, but we have to do something now. That's why I'm hopeful that this week we'll be able to pass something so it is a short term and not as much as I would like. It's a compromise.

Brian: Congressman Gregory Meeks from Queens in Nassau, the incoming chairman now of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Thank you so much for the time today. Let's keep talking.

Congressman Meeks: Thank you. Good to be on with you.

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