[music]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Well, that was some State of the Union address, wasn't it? It was good TV for one thing. Biden was feisty, high-energy, and sometimes playful. Politically, that tone was no accident, and so much to the point like, "Hey, America. I am not too old and slow to run for reelection. Thank you." He said the words let's finish the job or finish the job 12 times, I counted in the transcript, after noticing that it seemed to come up a lot as I was watching the speech. He practically announced his reelection bid right there.

The Republicans were feisty too as everybody's talking about. Democrat Jamie Raskin, have you heard this recently said of Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene, that when she's at an official thing where there's supposed to be a certain decorum, it's like she's at the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Rocky Horror for those of you who don't know is a movie where the audience talks back at the screen.

We pulled a number of clips, both of Biden and the Republican respondent Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the Governor of Arkansas. We'll have two guests and listeners, our phones are open for your reactions to anything from State of the Union night, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. I want to start in a different place than I think most reaction shows are starting. I want to start with a contrast between how Biden and Huckabee Sanders spoke about health care and having cancer. We're going to play Huckabee Sanders first. You'll hear that she starts with a knock on Democrats for wanting government to control things, and then segues into her cancer story.

[start of audio playback]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: Democrats want to rule us with more government control, but that's not who we are. America is the greatest country the world has ever known because we're the freest country the world has ever known with the people who are strong and resilient. Five months ago, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. It was a hard time for our family, particularly our kids, Scarlett, Huck, and George, but we kept our faith and persevered. Thanks to exceptional doctors here in Arkansas, a successful surgery, and the grace of God, I am cancer free.

[end of audio playback]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, it was good doctors and faith in God, the grace of God, that cured her cancer. Nothing about how she or other Americans pay for all that treatment. By contrast, Biden emphasize the health care costs that Americans face and a law he got passed with Democrat votes only and zero Republican votes to address it.

[start of audio playback]

President Biden: This law also caps and won't go into effect until 2025. It costs out-of-pocket drug costs for seniors on Medicare at a maximum of $2,000 yearly. You don't have to pay more than $2,000 a year no matter how much your drug costs are. You know why? You all know it. Many of you, like many in my family, have cancer. The drugs can range from $10,000, $11,000, $14,000 $15,000 for the cancer drugs. If drug prices rise faster than inflation, drug companies are going to have to pay Medicare back the difference.

[end of audio playback]

Biden from the State of the Union on health care. From Sarah Huckabee's language, it seems like that was part of the government control of our lives that she was against in her response. We have many more clips to play as we welcome our guests for this reaction segment. Andrew Seligsohn, president of Public Agenda, a nonpartisan research and public engagement organization that emphasizes what they call a hidden common ground that is seeking to highlight areas in which there's agreement across party lines that people may not realize exists.

He was previously Associate Chancellor for Civic Engagement and Strategic Planning at Rutgers University-Camden, and Director of Civic Engagement Learning in the Pace Center at Princeton, and Errin Haines, editor-at-large at The 19th, the news organization covering the intersection of women politics and policy named after the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote.

It's the 19th with an asterisk because, in practice, the amendment passed during Jim Crow excluded Black women from the right to vote. Errin was previously a national writer on race for the Associated Press. She's also worked at The Los Angeles Times and The Washington Post. Errin, welcome back, always good to have you, and Andrew Seligsohn, welcome to WNYC.

Andrew Seligsohn: Thank you so much, Brian.

Errin Haines: Brian, it's good to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we'll get your reactions to anything from the State of the Union night as we go, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Errin, can I get your take on the contrast between those two clips on how they talked about cancer in the family and how it relates to their party's approaches?

Errin Haines: Yes. Brian, I think a lot of your observations I tend to agree with. Also, I think the president in really highlighting the story of that couple who was in the gallery. It gets to the first lady who had a daughter who was able to survive and beat cancer, really putting their story on display, a story that probably also resonated with many Americans across the country. It felt particularly powerful, again and again, using examples of real Americans and talking about them to let them know that he really sees them and that fighting cancer is some of the work left undone, the let's finish the job thing.

He certainly puts cancer in that category of the work that they can collectively do as Americans and that he is committed to doing as president, whereas Governor Huckabee Sanders clearly felt that government really didn't have a role in helping Americans to deal with this disease that has taken so many people in this country and around the world. That was definitely a very sharp contrast between those two speeches.

Brian Lehrer: Andrew, anything on that before we set up the next clip? I know you're interested in common ground. The polls I've seen show concern about health care costs as way up there among Americans of both parties.

Andrew Seligsohn: I think one of the frustrations Democrats often have is that if you understand how a lot of issues are actually structured, the role that government plays, people are pretty supportive of things that it turns out are related to government policy, but very frequently, the public doesn't know how those things are connected. It makes sense to people that it's the doctor, and whatever else you believe might drive these things that is behind it without recognizing the role government policy either maybe playing in helping you or in some cases standing in the way of something, and it's about eliminating a barrier.

I think one of the things that I think Biden is good at rhetorically, he certainly has some challenges, is humanizing the way that government works in people's lives. I think for him, given his agenda, and as you said, his clear interest in running for reelection, trying to draw some of those connections is quite important because exactly as Governor Huckabee Sanders showed there's an interest on the other side in painting government as always part of the problem, which has been, obviously, a part of the Republican playbook at least since Ronald Reagan made that approach quite famous.

Brian Lehrer: Looks like the Bronx is in the house wanting to react to State of the Union night. We're getting a few calls from the Bronx. First up, so let's hear from Kenny in the Bronx. You're on WNYC. Hi, Kenny.

Kenny: Hey, Brian. The Bronx always loves you. I was listening to your coverage last night with Kai Wright, and you were asking everyone for their opinion of the state. For me, it was the state of chaos because of all the stuff that's been happening from the pandemic on and Trump and everything.

Brian Lehrer: Your answer to the State of the Union is, is the State of the Union is in a state of chaos?

Kenny: No, that was yesterday and today, upon hearing the president, I'm assured not only because he shouted down the Republicans heckling him, but the fact that he was basically in command, he actually has done legislative stuff and he's doing his thing. He was confident and even though there's only a four Republican majority, he's working with them, and he's trying to talk to them. The fact that he's doing what he's doing, he's actually has a legislative accomplishments, he's bringing money to New York, that's the most important thing.

Brian Lehrer: Kenny, thank you very much. Interesting that Kenny there, we're going to talk about this with our guests as we go, points out both bringing it to the Republicans and talking about bipartisan things. Steve in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Steve.

Steve: Hi, Brian. Thank you for taking my call.

Brian Lehrer: Sure.

Steve: I actually saw President Biden 11 years ago at a convention and he was just like he was last night feisty, strong, shouting when he needs to be. He was just a top of his form. I think he should take a play leave from Harry Truman's playbook as he already has been doing a year and a half from now, right in the middle of the campaign. If nothing's been passed, he should call a special session of the Congress and just lay it on the line up and down on these issues, and he's great. I think he was superb last night.

Brian Lehrer: Two big Biden fans in the Bronx. You told our screener happy warrior. I think he used that phrase, right?

Steven: That's right. He's a happy warrior. God bless him. He's an old pro.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Steven. Here's what we might characterize as one of those happy warrior moments, a good TV and playful moment from Biden right at the start. Andrew, this will be for you first after the clip with your interest in bipartisanship, practically the first words out of Biden's mouth as he acknowledges the new Republican Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy sitting behind him.

[start of audio playback]

President Biden: I start tonight by congratulating the 118th Congress and the new Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy.

[cheering]

Speaker, I don't want to ruin your reputation, but I look forward to working with you.

[laughter]

[end of audio playback]

Well, you heard the Republicans cheering there before he even got the Democrats cheering. Andrew, was that an olive branch, a way to disarm McCarthy, or some of both? You told us before the speech that one of the three big things you'd be watching for was how much Biden would reach for common ground versus sharpened distinctions between himself and the Republicans. How did you see that moment on that scale?

Andrew Seligsohn: One of the things that stood out to me about the whole speech in that moment was a really good example of it is that I think Biden is a little bit seeking to have it both ways. In that, I think he's interested in sharpening the divisions on policy issues, but projecting a common ground style in the way he engages, the way he interacts, the way he talks about his opponents. I think, on a number of policy issues, he laid down a stance that he knew was not at all popular with and not going to be embraced by the Republicans in the room, but that he believed was appealing to the broad public in the United States.

At the same time, he did it in a way that suggested that he's open to dialogue, that he respects those with whom he disagrees. I thought the contrast with Sarah Huckabee Sanders was really interesting. She tried to persuade us that Joe Biden was himself an extremist. She talked about crazy. She said it may not be him, but the woke mob has taken over the White House. I think, again, Biden wants to say, look, on the issues we have real disagreements. Here's where I stand, et cetera.

Again, I think in many cases our polling shows the common ground is not always right in the center. On a lot of these issues, he's articulating a quite popular position, but he wants to show that he's also willing to work with the other side so that, stylistically, the public doesn't have to swallow the idea of somebody who just wants to battle. Again, I think he pulled that off a degree of feistiness, but it was feistiness on behalf of the people, but a willingness to say, "Hey, we may disagree, but let's sit at a table and try to work things out."

Brian Lehrer: Yes. We're going to play that Huckabee Sanders woke mob clip in just a minute as part of another specific policy contrast, really, or maybe a culture war contrast between Biden and her. Errin, before we do that, anything from you on that little play at the start, I think, tweaking the more radical Republicans by congratulating McCarthy saying he looks forward to working with him and he hopes that doesn't ruin his reputation?

Errin Haines: Yes. I think Happy Warrior probably is a correct description of the president's mood last night, but at the same time, he still is communicating what got him even into the racial president in the beginning, and that is that he is in a battle for the soul of America. That means that he is extending this message of unity and bipartisanship, but not unlike the substance of the tone that he struck in Philadelphia where he said we will not work with radical Republican extremists that he sees as people that he won't be able to work with. He wants to work with Republicans that he thinks that he can, but he understands that maybe there may be some Republicans that he can't.

He was mixing it up with some of those folks from the floor of the house last night, but also continued to say for those of you who do want to work with us, we are willing to do that. I'm thinking of other moments where he made similar quips, whether it was telling Republicans who either support infrastructure or are happy to see it come to their district see you at the groundbreaking is what he said to some laughs, or when he chatted. I don't know which lawmaker he was speaking to but brought up the quote from his football coach from high school who said good luck with your senior year to folks who were attempting to challenge him. Don't forget, there were several issues. Whether we're talking about emotional-

Brian Lehrer: Which means what, by the way? I was wondering about that line, that good luck with your senior year, meaning they're going to get voted out of office. Was that the implication?

Errin Haines: I think, yes, it was left open to interpretation, but it was basically good luck with that, but also him continuing to say more than once during that speech I will veto this. If you all attempt to PAC a federal ban on abortion or attempt to make cuts to Medicare or take away social security, it's not going to happen, right?

Brian Lehrer: Yes. On that reference to his football coach listener tweets, the State of the Union camera coverage is starting to be like sports now. When the president said ban assault weapons, the camera focused in on that gun nut Lauren Wilbert. That's one listener's observation. Errin, I see that you retweeted this from your colleague Kate Sosin from The 19th. The tweet was, "what many people may not realize is that LGBTQ people are at the center of all the issues Biden spoke about throughout his address. We also need to reimagine and continue to build our democracy so that fewer of us are left behind."

Wrote Kate Sosin in her article. Here's a moment from the speech where Biden addresses LGBTQ concerns explicitly, and it comes after what you just referenced, Errin. His reference and it was his only reference to abortion rights and the Supreme Court's Dobbs decision in which he said he would veto any national ban on abortions if Congress sends him one.

[start of audio playback]

President Biden: Let's also pass the Bipartisan Equality Act, ensure LGBTQ, Americans, especially transgender young people, can live with safety and dignity.

[end of audio playback]

Brian Lehrer: Notable perhaps that he did say the word transgender and the phrase transgender young people out loud there. Again, I'm going to contrast this with the Republican response. Here, again, is Arkansas Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders taking two explicit shots at even the existence of transgender identity. Here's the first one.

[start of audio playback]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: I'm the first woman to lead my state, and he's the first man to surrender his presidency to a woke mob that can't even tell you what a woman is.

[end of audio playback]

Brian Lehrer: Here's the second one.

[start of audio playback]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: Upon taking office, just a few weeks ago, I signed executive orders to ban CRT racism and indoctrination in our schools, eliminate the use of derogatory term Latinx in our government.

[end of audio playback]

Brian Lehrer: Errin, maybe I shouldn't be surprised by now, but those lines blew my mind last night. She said she signed an executive order to ban racism, but the only racism she named was what she must see as racism against white people, CRT. She called out the word Latinx there. The only reason I could think of that, that she would've done that is because different from Latino or Latina, Latinx is a gender-neutral word. How did you hear all that from Biden and from her?

Errin Haines: I think what we know is that you have Republicans who are already trying to create a climate that very much features the culture wars headed into 2024, coming out of 2022, even though leaning into the culture wars had really mixed results from the midterm election, but we know that it is still pretty potent and can be effective in close races. You see her certainly leaning into that and her response to what the president had to say, not really much in terms of policy priorities or what that agenda might look like from Republicans, but very much focused on the culture wars.

For President Biden's part, yes, Kate has written for us a lot about really the anti-LGBT to legislation that has been sweeping states across the country at The 19th. This is something that we have been very focused on because it does feel existential, for a lot of folks in the LGBTQ, particularly in the trans community, so they have been focused on that coverage. Orion Rummler, another one of our reporters has also been focused a lot on this coverage. What it means for them as Americans, as voters, who are trying to really push back against legislation that is having an impact on their daily lives.

For folks like that, for folks who are contemplating the post-jobs landscape, six months after that consequential decision, to hear the President mention abortion, to mention transgender youth, is not unimportant, but that doesn't really go far enough, given the climate that the country now finds itself in for folks who are concerned about these issues. So many folks who I saw online reacting to those moments, felt like he didn't go far enough or it didn't feel like enough of a priority in the speech.

It came up in like this lightning round, where he's going down the list of things that are on the agenda, but didn't feel like as much of a priority as say, the issue of police violence, the need for police reform, which he talked about, at length and really singled out Tyre Nichols family that was in the gallery with the First Lady and really personalizing that issue for several moments, before moving on. [unintelligible 00:21:38] really the same level of attention.

Brian Lehrer: Will play a clip from that part of the speech shortly. Andrew, to what Errin was just saying, you told us before the speech that you'd be watching, among other things, for how much does Biden address the concerns of key Democratic constituencies versus appeal as broadly as possible? Does the Biden clip we just heard nevermind, the Huckabee Sanders' portions, create attention for you on that count, you heard Errin reflecting the disappointment of a lot of people in the abortion rights and LGBTQ constituencies that he didn't dwell enough or get specific enough?

Andrew Seligsohn: If I might start with the point about Latinx because I think it leads into this conversation. I heard that a little bit differently, Sarah Huckabee Sanders' use of that than you did, Brian, in that, I thought the reason she was focusing on that. I've seen a bunch of survey evidence suggesting that people who are intended to be described by that term, that is to say, Latinos and Latinas, in general, don't actually like the term Latinx, that the evidence is that more educated progressives, many of whom are white, use that term, but most people who aren't supposed to characterize, don't choose it over the terms Latino and Latina.

I think that the intention from Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and the right more generally, is to find these kinds of wedge issues where Democrats look like they're pandering to a constituency. This is the construction they're seeking to create, that doesn't really appeal to the broad public, and it's supposed to emphasize how out of touch Democratic leadership is.

Obviously, there's been a very strong attempt, it's been fairly successful to increase support among Republicans or for Republicans among Latino Latina voters. I think there's a sense that, "Hey, if we can persuade ordinary Latinos and Latinas that the Democratic Party is focused on these issues that aren't really related to your life, and they don't understand your identity, that there's an opportunity actually to build some support there."

I think that is the line that Biden has been walking that he does need. I think it was pretty clear that a lot of these core Democratic constituency issues came very late in the speech, that the core of the speech was focused on bread and butter, economic issues that weren't intended to be common ground based broadening focus areas rather than abortion rights, transgender rights, et cetera. It makes sense to me that people would have felt like, "Hey, those issues got pushed to one side."

I think Biden when he ran in 2020, everybody during the primaries, lots of commentators thought, "Oh, he's not doing enough to appeal to base Democratic voters," and he was consistently outflanked on the left. It was clear, he chose that strategy, and obviously, proved successful, and a general election strategy that was successful was built right from it. I think he's pursuing that same approach. He's showing respect to core-based Democratic voters, but he wants to be very clear that the things that are primary on his mind are things that are affecting the pocketbooks of all Americans.

Again, I think the attempt by Republicans will be to say that Democrats are focused on this other set of issues that isn't related to your real lives. I don't know that it would be that successful because I think, again, Biden has been quite strong at convincing Americans that he is thinking about the things that matter to them.

Brian Lehrer: Errin, do you want to keep going on that, including anything that Andrew just said, also how can we Sanders' description of Latinx as a derogatory word?

Errin Haines: I do. Certainly, to Andrew's point, think that there are folks in the Latino community, which is not a monolith, but there are cultural differences and generational differences, as it pertains to that term. Again, for that to be Governor Huckabee Sanders' first order of business really just reflects that there are Republicans who are focused on the culture wars as a strategy, as a political playbook strategy headed into 2024.

This is somebody who certainly is being looked at as a rising star in the Democratic Party, first woman Governor of Arkansas, youngest Governor in the country, and yet, still is espousing a lot of the same priorities that you see among people who are being discussed as possible presidential contenders, as well as obviously a former president who has announced his intent to run for president again.

For the president, who we're assuming is running for reelection, we're expecting an announcement to be imminent that he will run for reelection, it really is about him pulling together this coalition. I do think that that is why you saw him talking about at the top of the speech these issues of the economy and health care and infrastructure, really those things that we know, that all Americans really care about, and that are top of mind for them as he's kitchen table issues, but also being able to think about issues of reproductive rights access, or LGBTQ rights as kitchen table issues for those people, for their families, as well.

I think was something that he gave a nod to, that maybe was appreciated, especially the word abortion, frankly, was something that people concerned about that issue had not heard from him out of his own mouth. I think that that mattered, and there were a lot of folks that were feeling seen. You had folks like the previous caller, Steven and Kenny really saying that his performance was what they were wanting. I think that they are among the folks who are exactly the kind of audience that the President was speaking to last night, and it's helping to appeal to ensure up if he had been to his reelection bid.

Brian Lehrer: I wonder if any of this runs along generational lines. Millennial callers, Gen-Z callers, what did you think? Did you feel as much as some of the older people who might be Biden's base that he was talking to you, that he was addressing your concerns enough, that he was hitting the right notes? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Among everyone else is also welcome to call in. I think Steven and Cambria Heights wants in on this piece of conversation we were just having. Steven, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Steven: Hey. Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Unfortunately, I'm sorry, I'm not generation ethics.

Brian Lehrer: No, that's all right. It doesn't matter. That's for later.

Steven: I'll make it quick. I guess what really got me was the comparison. When I watched Biden, I thought he had a great speech. I thought he did well. On the other hand, I watched Huckabee and I got this, you talked about the worst administration, yet there's no mention of the administration she was involved in. She talked about going to the war zone with former president and how they loved him so much. All I kept thinking of, "Well, Roosevelt and Truman and LBJ and Nixon, all went to war zones and W also had went there." You are encouraged as members of the troop to your president, you can't really criticize him.

Brian Lehrer: [unintelligible 00:29:53] your commander-in-chief when he shows up at the front.

Steven: Thank you. When she talked about the young Republicans and I've worked with them and I'm thinking what Taylor Greene gets in Holland, all being controlled supposedly by Kevin McCarthy, a man who half the time ain't got the backbone of Charlie McCarthy. You're telling me that this is your party and you need to talk about it. You talk about the CRT and you want to talk about well, Blacks that everyone is doing great, well, I'm Black, well, great Blacks are doing great in this country and this and that, but you don't want to talk about the history of what we came through.

There's nothing wrong with young white children learning what my father did in World War II, and learning also about men like Mel Brooks, who was Jewish, and what he went through in his basic training in the south during World War II.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Steven, and by referencing-

Steven: Wouldn't hurt your children to know that. That's all.

Brian Lehrer: By referencing Charlie McCarthy, you definitely showed your edge.

Steven: Thanks you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Steven, call us again look it up folks, Charlie McCarthy. To put a pin in what Steven was just saying listen to tweets, that when Sarah Huckabee Sanders spoke about her trip with the President to visit the troops in Iraq, and she talked about how the troops reacted, she never mentioned that president's name. Will continue in a minute with excerpts from and your reactions to State of the Union night stay with us.

[music]

Brian there on WNYC, as we continue with excerpts from and your reactions to State of the Union night, and with our guests, Errin Haines, editor-at-large at the news organization The 19th, and Andrew Seligsohn, president of the nonpartisan research and public engagement organization, Public Agenda. Let's get to the feisty Biden that everybody's talking about. He was feisty, and on the Biden feisty track, here's the clip and I didn't want to lead with it, because everybody's been playing it but this is the one I'm seeing replayed the most.

It is worthy of attention, in which he seems to go the Republicans this is to my eye anyway, what happened. He seemed to go the Republicans into booing him, and then he has his response to that ready to engage with. It comes at the end of a section on making the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes, which he segues into the topic of Social Security and Medicare.

[start of audio playback]

President Biden: Instead of making the wealthy pay their fair share some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security sunset, I'm not saying it's the majority. Let me give you-- Anybody who doubts it, contact my office, I'll give you a copy of the proposal.

[end of audio playback]

Brian Lehrer: Andrew, that was political theater, like nothing I remember seeing at the State of the Union address. That's why it's getting so much attention, I guess, a lot of people don't remember seeing anything like that. Did it also look to you like Biden set that whole thing up so he could look good and high energy and get the Republicans on the record about not cutting Social Security and Medicare? Maybe he was leaning into a bipartisan priority and drawing a distinction between the parties at the same time there?

Andrew Seligsohn: It was a little hard to say whether he got lucky and improvised well or whether it was scripted. I think for folks who there is this plan from I'm pretty sure for Rick Scott that has language that can at least be interpreted as indicating that he would sunset Social Security, Medicare, it is not gotten a broad support among Republicans, et cetera. I think it certainly was calculated to seem like dirty pool to the Republicans, which as he said, he had a technical defense for but I definitely think yes, the opportunity to show that he's ready to mix it up in defense of those very popular programs that so many people including so many seniors rely on. That certainly worked well for him.

I think it's it is absolutely the-- That mix of things we were discussing that there's a readiness to stand and fight for the American people. That's part of what he's presenting, but also, looking for the common ground and as he said that the fact that he was able to wrap it up by saying, "Hey, if it looks like we've come to some agreement here, that's terrific." It allowed him to stand tough on the issue. It's obviously a Democratic priority to protect those programs and I think he's partly teeing up the battle that is about to come over the debt ceiling as those entitlement programs are likely to be part of that story.

The better he can do at setting up Republicans for being on record that they want to protect those programs, the better position he is going into that. I think that balance that he's constantly seeking to strike between toughness, readiness to fight on the issues that matter to people, but also a willingness to come to agreement. It all came together there because he had that smiling, laughing approach to it, which just made it seem like a pretty relatable person.

Brian Lehrer: Right and whether he said the whole thing up or as you speculate, maybe just [unintelligible 00:35:36] well, when he got that response from the Republicans, either way, it makes him look on it and not over the hill. Peter in Great Neck wants in on this portion of the conversation. Peter, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Peter: Hi, good morning, Brian, thanks for taking my call. I do not watch State of the Unions first of all. The next day, listen to NPR, read The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, et cetera. This part of his speech really gets to me and aggravates me, because everyone knows what is going to take to fix Social Security and set it up for long-term. This type of sloganeering and using the State of the Union to demonize the other side, to me strikes me as one of the most Craven things that a president can do in a State of the Union.

I'm Gen-X, I look forward to collecting Social Security. I've paid into it all my life and I also know that some things that have to be done might include raising taxes, might include adjusting the benefits, and might include raising the retirement age. This idea that Republicans want to cut Social Security or sunset it, at worst, it's lying, and at its best, it's misdirection. That, to someone who knows what the facts are, is really frustrating.

Brian Lehrer: The word sunset comes from that proposal maybe you know this by Republican senator Rick Scott of Florida.

Peter: [unintelligible 00:37:26] Yes, right. One Republican puts a proposal together and it gets a demonized by the other side. We've been seeing this kooky act for so long, that if somebody has an idea to fix social security, whether it's George Bush or Rick Scott, and it has some sense, it gets twisted and demonized by the Democrats into something that it's not. It's really aggravating for somebody who's 10 years away from retirement.

Brian Lehrer: Peter, thank you. We appreciate your call. Thank you call us again. Speaking of seniors, here's another senior. Luke in Westchester, who is a senior in high school. Hi, Luke, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling in today.

Luke: Hi, thank you so much, Brian, where's the folder. I was actually watching the State of the Union with my friend last night, we're in AP gov class and we had to fill out a sheet while we were watching, and we were analyzing it. I actually thought that Biden was very enthusiastic and I disagree with the previous caller. I thought that Biden calling out the specific Republicans not specific, but calling out the Republicans who have voiced some not exactly opposition, but just some thoughts that aren't exactly 100% in favor of Social Security. I think that that's actually something that invigorates the party. Also at the end, what I thought he did was smart was that he reached out he said, "Call my office, be bipartisan." I thought that there was a good [unintelligible 00:39:05]

Brian Lehrer: You liked that. Did last night change your impression of Biden in any way from what you may have had before?

Luke: I've been pretty enthusiastic about Biden, I supported him in 2020 and obviously I couldn't vote, but I support him and I plan to in 2024 if he's the nominee, vote for him again. Vote for him very enthusiastically.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I hope you get extra credit for calling the show in your AP government class.

Luke: Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Luke call us again. Kathleen in Princeton, you're on WNYC. Hi, Kathleen.

Kathleen: Hi. As I was telling the screener, I'm a young millennial old Gen Z, depending on how you draw that line. You asked if people of my demographic felt like he was talking to us and I personally didn't, but I wasn't surprised by that. I expect pretty middle-of-the-road stances from Joe Biden and especially given the mess that is the House Republican Caucus and just the state of division generally in partisan politics. I expected him to do the appealing to the broadest possible base, talking about things like jobs and inflation, and infrastructure that he thinks are going to appeal to as many people as possible.

While, certainly, he said a couple of things that upset Republicans, he also stopped at one point because he was surprised by how many people were standing in the chamber, applauding when he said something excessively moderate. I wasn't surprised by that at all because that's what I expect from him.

Brian Lehrer: What could he have said that would've made you feel more like he was talking to you?

Kathleen: That's a good question. I think, partially, like I said, I don't expect him to be talking to me. I expect that from more or less leaning members of the party and especially younger members of the party who just tend to speak to issues that more directly affect me. I appreciated that he talked about climate change. That's something that I think is important for my generation.

He did talk about education, but he didn't talk about student debt. I think there are just issues that more progressive members of the Democratic Party who also tend to be younger are more inclined to talk about and those are some strong examples. Climate change and student debt and doing something radical about those issues whereas he was trying to keep his comments on those things as neutral and moderate as possible.

Brian Lehrer: Great. Kathleen, thank you very much. Call us again, please. All right. One more clip. Errin, I see that your article on The 19th site this morning is about Tyre Nichols' parents being at the State of the Union address. Looks like you interviewed his mom, RowVaughn Wells, and Biden referenced how, as a white father, he never had to have the talk with his own kids about how to act when you encounter the police. Then he said this, which you highlighted in your piece.

[start of audio playback]

President Biden: It's up to us, to all of us. We all want the same thing. Neighborhoods free of violence. Law enforcement who earns the community's trust, just as every cop when they pin on that badge in the morning has a right to be able to go home at night so does everybody else out there. [applause] Our children have a right to come home safely.

[end of audio playback]

How did that strike you, Errin? How did you contextualize it in your reporting today?

Errin Haines: Well, it was striking, Brian, because RowVaughn Wells, her husband Rodney, they are, to my mind, and I've been covering the Black Lives Matter movement for the better part of a decade, the first time that you've seen parents of a Black American killed by law enforcement in the First Lady's box at a State of the Union address. That signals the priority that the administration is putting on this issue.

You have several family members of Black families affected by this issue who were also in the House Gallery at the invitation of Black lawmakers who are continuing to push for federal police reform legislation and really putting a face on this issue, making it more human. That is certainly something that RowVaughn Wells told me that she was hoping her presence would bring to the speech and to this issue as federal police reform legislation continues to stall in Congress.

We know that the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act didn't pass last summer, got stalled out in the Senate. These families are really hoping that the tragic death of Tyre Nichols is going to be something that can help to create momentum for this issue yet again as we have seen in past years with mass shooting incidents and folks trying to push for action around gun violence, which we did see as able to happen last year in Congress.

Seeing these families, seeing RowVaughn Wells without even having to hear from that family at all, but for the President to address them and to talk about their son and to talk about this issue in a way that says that he sees them and that this is something that he cares about and that the American people should be working together to address, even while praising law enforcement, that he does have respect for when they're doing the right thing, but also wanting to hold bad actors accountable. That was really something that felt remarkable for a State of the Union and something that has not happened.

Brian Lehrer: Good that they were there, but also really sadly, another example of what you called in your peace having to grieve in public for Tyre's parents. Andrew, last word from you with your interest in bipartisanship and identifying areas of common ground. Did the President, and we've had so much interesting conversation between you two and the callers on what was too much centrism, not enough addressing particular issues or hitting a sweet spot for actually getting things done? Do you think this sets him up in any way with the Republican Congress to get some bipartisan legislation passed this year?

Andrew Seligsohn: Well, it's a tough question. Immediately, having trouble even forming a sentence because I think, as I think Errin referred to earlier, there's Kevin McCarthy, but there's also the wing of the Republican Party that made it so hard for Kevin McCarthy to even just win the speaker election. I think it seems unlikely that the president would be able to peel away Republicans given people's fears about getting primary, the fact that so many folks are running in districts where that's where the game is, not the general election, just the mathematics of it make it hard to break up that party.

It's hard to imagine that the Lauren Boebert and Matt cases in Marjorie Taylor Greenes are ready to start compromising or looking for common ground issues. I think part of what he's doing is a 2024 strategy about saying, "Yes, we were blocked from doing the things we wanted to do, but you understand what I was trying to do, which is take care of the bread and butter issues facing the American public."

Obviously, that's what he spent a huge amount of the speech on manufacturing jobs, accomplishments already through the infrastructure bill, and finish the job routine. I think I don't expect to see a ton of bipartisanship in the Congress works. I think Biden wants to go into 2024 with the public thinking of him as the one who was seeking to be reasonable and Republicans refusing to compromise.

Brian Lehrer: Andrew Seligsohn from Public Agenda, Errin Haines from The 19th, thank you both so much for getting up and doing this with us this morning after, I'm sure you were up late last night digesting the two speeches. Thank you very much.

Andrew Seligsohn: Pleasure to be here, Brian. Thank you.

Errin Haines: Thank you, Brian. [unintelligible 00:48:04].

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Brian Lehrer on WNYC. I did not expect a football reference to get in there at the end. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Much more to come.

 

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