[music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. All this week, Radio Rookies WNYC's Youth Radio Initiative is presenting its latest series of stories maybe you've been hearing them on Morning Edition and All Things Considered. This year's crop of radio rookies reporters are between the ages of 16 and 24, and they're all from New York City. Like every year, the rookies' reports are personal first-person stories, and this season they're focusing on policing, crime, and public safety, and alternatives to the criminal justice system based on their own experiences or those of people they know who they report on, as radio rookies.

Joining us are three of this year's radio rookies, Betsy-Jane Paul-Odionhin who is 16, and from Far Rockaway in Queens, Folashade Olatunde, who's 24 and from Mott Haven in the Bronx, and Kayla Ollivierre who is 17 and lives in St. Albans in Queens. Betsy-Jane, Folashade, Kayla, welcome to The Brian Lehrer Show. Thank you so much for coming on. I've been loving all your pieces.

Kayla Ollivierre: Thank you.

Folashade Olatunde: Thank you so much for having us.

Betsy-Jane: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Kayla, I'll start with you. We'll hear a clip from your radio rookies report in a minute, but for background for our listeners, your story begins with an interview with your mother on some really tough stuff. She talks to you about when she was attacked by her boyfriend during a domestic violence incident. You were 10 years old at the time, and you had to make the decision to call the police not once, but twice. Can you talk about why you started your story with that? Was it hard to decide to put that out on the radio in public?

Kayla Ollivierre: When I started to think about the story I wanted to speak about the domestic violence incident because it was something that was very personal to me, and I thought that it would help guide the story. It definitely was tough trying to figure out what I was going to say because it's hard speaking your truth when no one's heard it before.

I thought starting with that would just help lead into everything else a lot better, and that's the initial idea that I started with. I really wanted to just talk about what I went through. I know a lot of people have went through it and haven't gotten the chance to talk about it themselves so I just took the opportunity to say, "Hey, I want to speak about my truth," and just talk about what happened to me.

Brian Lehrer: Well, it's very brave. Let's listen to some of your stories. We'll hear what happened from the second time you called the police and we'll hear your mom speak first in this clip.

Female Speaker: He called, you called the police again, and that's when he left. He left.

Kayla Ollivierre: A different group of officers showed up. One of them gave us the phone number for domestic violence shelter, but they didn't really do anything. I was shocked and disappointed.

Jared: Growing up, everyone wanted to be a police officer. Everyone wanted to be a firefighter.

Kayla Ollivierre: That's my friend Jared. We grew up together in Queens.

Jared: I would go to school and be like, "Hey, I'm friends with a police officer," or whatever thinking I was cool.

Kayla Ollivierre: It's funny that you said that because I always wanted to be a cop.

Brian Lehrer: You use that domestic violence incident as a jumping-off point to talk about police reform using the second half of your story to interview Derecka Purnell a lawyer, activist, and police abolitionist. What was the connection between this actual domestic violence that you witnessed and feel compelled to call the police around and your interest in alternatives to policing?

Kayla Ollivierre: Initially, I didn't really think about the reason or the response to what the police had said when I called them those two times. It was really just me self-discovering and trying to figure out, "hey, what is wrong?" Because at that time I was 10. I didn't really think about policing or what they did wrong. When I started to look into the response rates of other crimes, there's gun violence, there's a lot of things that happen when the police come a lot too late.

I said, "Hey, I need to think about alternatives. I need to think about ways that people can get saved earlier," because I can just only imagine if the police had came at least a minute or two minutes late, my mom would have died. I just felt like thinking about using my domestic violence situation to talk about other forms of violence or to investigate other forms of violence just helped me think about reform and what alternatives there are.

Brian Lehrer: Kayla, stay there, we'll have you talk to some of your fellow radio rookies in a minute after we meet the other two or in a few minutes. Folashade, we're going to bring you in next. Your story is about your journey to rebuild your relationship with your father who's been in prison since you were two years old. To tell your story, you started recording audio diaries. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about what an audio diary is, and how you keep it, and how you use this medium?

Folashade Olatunde: Hi, Brian. The way that I used the audio diary is I would record it on my phone. I started recording audio diaries of me visiting my dad after 12 years. I would just record my feelings, my emotions. It's like writing in a journal, but instead, you're actually speaking it through voice diaries.

Brian Lehrer: Over the summer, I see you decided to visit your dad in prison for the first time in 12 years like you just said, and although you probably couldn't record him in person, you did record him during a phone conversation. We're going to play a clip of that from your radio rookie story. We'll hear your dad speak first.

Male Speaker: How is your job?

Folashade Olatunde: It's good.

Male Speaker: Okay. That's good.

Folashade Olatunde: Yes. I saw you sent me a message. You were saying that your counselor told you some news about your release. It was really hard to see my dad, but I wanted to rebuild our relationship and get to know him. We started to talk more, and I decided that I would go visit him every other weekend. Today, I visit my dad for the second time, and he is definitely not himself. I don't know if he's suffering from a mental illness or if he's just out of it.

Brian Lehrer: Folashade, that's very powerful. In that brief exchange of dialogue between you and your dad, as well as what you describe afterwards, we can really hear how difficult the conversation can be. Why did you choose that snippet and what do you think it conveys?

Folashade Olatunde: The reason why I chose that snippet is because I wanted to showcase how being in prison for so long, how it can take a mental toll on you. I also wanted to show the trauma that it not only puts on the person in prison, but also the trauma that it puts on the child in the family.

Brian Lehrer: Your audio diary pieces express a whole range of emotions. At one point, you feel sad for your father and his condition. In another, you're worried that he may be suffering from mental illness as we just heard you say, and towards the end, you start sharing how frustrated you are, that you and your father aren't really connecting. When recording these diaries, did you go into them with the idea of what you would say? Did you sketch out some talking points for yourself to make audio or did you just allow yourself to feel your feelings and started living?

Folashade Olatunde: Through the process, we started to let the process take its own toll of just seeing how I was feeling through every situation, meaning every visit I would go on just feeling what emotion that I was feeling through each visit.

Brian Lehrer: Stay there Folashade, you'll talk about making radio with your fellow radio rookies, Kayla and Betsy-Jane in a minute after we introduce people to Betsy-Jane, who we haven't spoken to yet. Hi, Betsy-Jane.

Betsy-Jane: Hello.

Brian Lehrer: I see you moved to New York City from Nigeria on your 13th birthday. Your story is about how you lost the sense of safety in that process. You set the tone of your peace in the beginning when you walk out into the stairway of your apartment building. Before we play a clip from your piece, do you want to talk more about that scene and maybe what you think of when you leave the house?

Betsy-Jane: When I first leave the house, obviously I want to make sure my door is locked, but I think that it's just like shutting the door, I've always felt like-- I'm someone that's always been in fueling my feelings, but shutting the door just gives me a sense of having some anxiety. If this is my house, I know I'm safe somewhat in my house, but

once I leave the door, it's--once I leave my house, it's just me and against the world.

That's how it feels. Also, I go to school very early because live very far away from school, so I have to leave my house very early. It's always like that early morning. It's very quiet. It really, really feels like it's just me against the world. I felt like I wanted to bring people into my thoughts and into my head and into that space that I always feel every morning by starting the peace with just me walking into the stairwell.

Brian Lehrer: You came here not as a baby, as we said on your 13th birthday. You had most of your childhood back in Nigeria, what struck you as most different as it relates to public safety or personal safety, which is the theme of your piece or anything else once you suddenly were a teenager in New York City instead of a teenager in Nigeria?

Betsy-Jane: It was very-- I think the biggest part about New York is that everyone says, whenever you're coming to visit is just mind your own business. It doesn't matter if someone is swallowing fire right next to you, or if they're jumping off rooftops, whatever. Most people are telling you no matter what, don't look back, just mind your own business and keep moving forward. That was the biggest thing for me when I moved from Nigeria because although a lot of people might say, "Betsy-Jane is just them being nosy." In Nigeria, I really felt like someone looked out for me.

If I were to fall-- even if I were to fall and graze my knee or something, I knew that a few people would come running over to me and they would ask me if I was okay or if I needed a bandaid, or if I needed somewhere to sit for a little bit, if my knee was still hurting and how-- if I was okay in general. If I were to fall in New York, no one would even look back or give me a glance back. It really, really-- that sense of safety was really lost. I think that that was one of the biggest things there because that was not a change that I expected to happen.

Brian Lehrer: You could be in a crowd and feel very alone in a different way than before.

Betsy-Jane: Yes. It did feel like that sense of me against the world. It wasn't something that really ever left.

Brian Lehrer: You're not alone in your feeling as you, of course, know you interviewed your friend [unintelligible 00:12:28] who compared New York to the Dominican Republic where she grew up will hear her first and then your reflections after.

Female Speaker 2: Everybody knew each other, if something happened to you, you would feel protected, but here everybody minds their own business. If something happened to me, I don't feel like people would go out of their way to help me.

Betsy-Jane: That's exactly how I feel. I've realized it's because in the US, people don't see me as Betsy-Jane, they see me as a Black immigrants girl and here those labels mean I'm less. I don't think of myself as less, but other people do, and that affects my safety.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking to Betsy-Jane who just talking, and Kayla and Folashade, who I spoke to one-on-one before, three of this year's Radio Rookies here at WNYC. We're hearing some excerpts from their pieces. Now, I wonder if I can get the three of you to talk to each other a little bit and compare notes about this whole process.

Of all the things in the world that you could be doing with your time you chose to join the WNYC Radio Rookies program. I'm curious about why and what that experience has been like for you so far. Now that you've finished these pieces what you hope to take from them going forward. Kayla, would you like to start? Why were you drawn to apply to radio rookies in the first place?

Kayla Ollivierre: Well, my interest has always been in podcasting. I was in 10th grade at the time and I told my global kids leader, which is a program in our school that I wanted to start a podcast because I wanted to do a YouTube channel. I have so much to say. I want to have a platform to say it. She put me on her name was [unintelligible 00:14:31] The global kids leader, she put me on to Radio Rookies and I just was taken away by the fact that kids can be given of life in such a broad way.

I would've never thought I would be doing something as grand as this. I really took that opportunity and it's just been so-- it's been so heartfelt to have me just speak about what I've been through. A lot of people don't really know what I've been through. They see me smiling all the time and laughing, but that's something that empowers me going through that situation, empowers me to be the person that I am today. I'm just really grateful that I was able to have this opportunity.

Brian Lehrer: That's really great Folashade, how about you?

Folashade Olatunde: The reason why I joined Radio Rookies is I always have a passion for writing and for Kayla, I have a YouTube channel and I just want to share my voice and also let people know that they're not alone, and I too, people see me and they think that I am all always happy and jolly, but I do get sad and I do have moments where I am low. I just want to show people that it's part of the human experience. The reason why I wanted to be a part of Radio Rookies is because I definitely wanted people to hear my story and to also make sure that they know that they're not alone in their story.

Brian Lehrer: Betsy-Jane, how about you? Why Radio Rookies?

Betsy-Jane: I also like Kayla heard about Radio Rookies through Global Kids, but my reasoning was a little bit different. I've always been interested in mass communication and I remember growing up, I would watch news now I'd be like, "I want to be a news reporter one day." When I learned about Radio Rookies, it was perfect for me because I've always loved the idea of being able to talk to people and change in a sense, their perspective on certain themes or bring something that they haven't really talked about to their minds by just speaking to them even if it's not necessarily directed to them. Radio Rookie was a perfect opportunity for me to really see how I felt about it [unintelligible 00:16:49] something that I actually did like doing and also share my story with other people.

Brian Lehrer: It sounds like at least for you and Kayla, you might want to do media for a living, yes, Betsy-Jane?

Betsy-Jane: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Kayla, you too.

Kayla Ollivierre: Yes, I do.

Brian Lehrer: Folashade, how about you that or something else?

Folashade Olatunde: Yes. I definitely would love to pursue media as a career.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Now, we should say you are, as I said in the intro, you're older than the other two Betsy-Jane I see is 16. Kayla is 17, you're 24. Do you think your young adult experience brought something to this or informs what you want to continue to do on a career path?

Folashade Olatunde: Yes. I definitely think that being a lot older, I feel like it shows like that you can be older and still be vulnerable and still share your truth and that you still go through things just like everybody else.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, I want to acknowledge the additional participant in this conversation. Which one of you has a dog?

Folashade Olatunde: Me, my dog is barking at the door. I am so sorry.

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] It's really cute and adorable. What's your dog's name?

Folashade Olatunde: Her name is Miracle.

Brian Lehrer: That's a wonderful name for a dog. How'd you choose Miracle?

Folashade Olatunde: Oh, the reason why I chose the name Miracle is because she came into my life when I was going through a really rough patch and I felt like she was an angel, like my little miracle. I thought of the name miracle and I also heard it in a song, and so I was like, "Oh, Miracle, that's a good name."

Brian Lehrer: That's really fabulous. Hello Miracle. Good dog Miracle, if you can hear me. All right. Let me put you all on the spot a little bit in our last few minutes. If you don't have anything to come up with, that's fine. I was wondering since you've been hearing each other's pieces on the radio this week, if you have any questions, as Miracle comes closer to the microphone as if you have a question that you would like to ask either of the other rookies.

Folashade, can I throw that at you? Anything you were thinking, either hearing the pieces on the air originally or just even in this conversation as you're listening to Betsy-Jane or to Kayla that you would like to ask them about?

Folashade Olatunde: Yes. I would like to ask Betsy and Kayla, what was the most fun part about working on your story?

Brian Lehrer: Betsy-Jane?

Betsy-Jane: Yes. I guess the most fun part. Everything was fun.

I think the most fun part was just talking to people, getting to interview people, because I love talking. I love sharing my ideas with other people. I just loved including my friend Jared into the conversation, that was really nice to hear his input on stuff that I've been thinking about for a while. It was also good to talk to Derecka because I hadn't really thought so deeply into police abolition. It was just really good to have insight from other people and get to meet them.

Brian Lehrer: All right, now that you've got to answer a question, you want to ask one of your fellow rookies?

Betsy-Jane: Yes, sure. I had related to Folashade because I know we spoke about my father is also incarcerated. I just want to know if you have any advice on how to deal with this because I know you've been going through it for a while.

Folashade Olatunde: Yes, the advice I would give is definitely it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to tell your parents how you feel and how it has affected you. Also to look at what it has caused you and also look at what it has caused your parents and kind of compare it in a way and see how you guys can connect through that and heal from that as well.

Brian Lehrer: Kayla, I think I'm going to have to make you ask your question to one of your fellow rookies off the air because we're out of time. Maybe we've planted a seed there just in case you haven't gotten the chance to do it. There we will have to leave it with WNYC Radio Rookie reporters, Betsy-Jane, Paul-Odionhin, Folashade Olatunde, and Kayla Ollivierre. You can hear all of the radio rookie stories this week on WNYC. They also have their own website. They also have their own website. It's radiorookies.org, Betsy-Jane, and Folashade, and Kayla, thank you so much for coming on today, and congratulations on your wonderful reporting.

Folashade Olatunde: Thank you.

Betsy-Jane: Thank you.

Kayla Ollivierre: Thank you. Have a nice day.

Copyright © 2022 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.