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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Georgia is voting, you know the stakes. We'll have live election returns tonight at 8:00, and we'll talk about the results on tomorrow's show. Guess what? There's nothing we can do sitting here in New York at ten o'clock in the morning about the Georgia run-offs except blah, blah, blah. Let's begin today by talking not about the first big election of 2021 but what is likely to be the second because don't look now, but the New York City mayoral race is already in high season.

The reason as we've mentioned before, but I know a lot of people are just coming to realize it is that everything happens earlier this year than in any mayoral election in the past. The New York primary has been moved up to June. It used to be in September. In this one-party town, Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis being about the only exception in this otherwise one-party town, that democratic primary in June is likely to be the election.

We've got our work cut out for us on this show and anywhere else that wants to take the future of New York seriously because according to a count by the real estate news website, Curbed, the other day, there are currently 34 people in the mayoral race. Remember how the Democratic presidential primaries last year started out with 23 people and everybody thought that was nuts? Well, if that was nuts, this is nuts and raisins, double nuts, mixed nuts, nuts on steroids, pick you more nuts than just nuts metaphor.

Here are the 34 names that Curb listed. Are you ready? I'm going to have to go through the pages of this article, which I printed out. Scott Stringer, Eric Adams, Maya Wiley, Shaun Donovan, Kathryn Garcia, Ray McGuire, Loree Sutton, Zach Iscol, Carlos Menchaca, Dianne Morales, Curtis Sliwa, Andrew Yang. Well, not officially yet, but we think he's going to run. Then it lists maybe running. This is really running, and maybe running, and might run. Maybe running, Christine Quinn, John Catsimatidis, he'd be Republican.

The drop-outs, Max Rose as of yesterday. They've updated this. Corey Johnson. Remember when Corey Johnson was like the mayor in waiting. Rubén Díaz Jr., Bronx's Borough President. The also runnings, Isaac Wright, Paperboy Prince, Quanda Francis, Art Chang, Stephen Bishop Seely, Edward Cullen, Cleopatra Fitzgerald, Aaron Foldenauer, Garry Guerrier, Abbey Laurel-Smith, William Pepitone, Joycelyn Taylor, Ahsan Syed. That's it. It's really 34 running, used to be running, maybe running, minor candidates also running in that list compiled by Curbed.

On top of that, there is this wrinkle in democracy New York style this year. You can vote for more than one of however many of those people actually wind up on the ballot. We'll explain the new ranked-choice voting system and help you figure out how to use it to make your vote count in the most powerful way. We declare this segment right now to be mayoral race coverage for 2021, edition number one on The Brian Lehrer Show, and joining us now is WNYC City Hall and politics reporter Brigid Bergin.

If you don't already know this voice, get to know it because Brigid who's been on the de Blasio beat is going to bring you great information about the mayoral race for the next five months and 17 days until the primary. Good morning, Brigid, thanks for joining us on the starting line.

Brigid Bergin: Good morning, Brian. Happy new year. Here we go. [chuckles]

Brian: Here we go. Listeners, in all seriousness, we promise you more substance than horse race on this show. More substance than horse race. We'll open up the phones right now for this introductory mayoral race segment of 2021. Question. What does the future of New York depend on? 646-435-7280. I don't want to know much yet about which candidates you may be leaning toward already. I know some of you are, but there's plenty of time for that. Let's think first about what you think the future of New York depends on. Who wants to put something on this list? 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280.

What does the city coming back from COVID depend on? What does the quality of life for New Yorkers beyond the recovery from COVID depend on? 646-435-7280 or you can tweet. This is something you can do in 280 characters. You can tweet @BrianLehrer. What does the future of New York depends on? We can break this down. You can break this down for yourself if you so choose by neighborhood, by race, gender, immigration status, by the kind of job you have, or the industry you work in.

What does the future of your block depend on or the future of your neighborhood, the future of your financial life or that of a New York City industry that you work in, people who look like you, or come from where you come from? What does the future of New York depend on based on any of those metrics or any other one that you want to throw on? 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280 or tweet @BrianLehrer with our City Hall and politics reporter, Brigid Bergin. Brigid, I read all those names, did I leave anybody out?

Brigid: Well, as you said, it's a long list. When I went and looked at the campaign finance board's website, recently, I had counted 35 candidates who had formally set up campaign committees for mayor, which include some of those names that you said have already dropped out of the race, Rubén Díaz Jr., Max Rose. Everyone who wants to run has to file even if they're not fundraising, folks like Ray McGuire, Loree Sutton, she's a former veteran's affairs commissioner under Mayor de Blasio, got into the race on the earlier side. She has a campaign committee set up.

As you noted, I think there are a lot of folks who are watching two other names, Andrew Yang, who has set up his committee but is as we know, if you follow him on Twitter, in Georgia today trying to get votes out there in the Senate races. Also on the Republican side, a lot of eyes on billionaire supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis. A lot of questions around whether he will be mounting his second bid for mayor. I think given the lopsided registration here in New York, so many more Democrats, more than six to one compared to Republicans.

Some notion that if a Republican is to be a viable candidate in this race that potentially you don't want a Republican primary like we saw in 2013 with Joe Lhota and John Catsimatidis going at each other and making ultimately, Joe Lhota a less viable candidate in the general election.

Brian: Yes, when he ran against de Blasio. Now, Catsimatidis was on that list from Curbed, I'm assuming as a Republican. Curtis Sliwa?

Brigid: Curtis Sliwa also could be a potential Republican candidate, founder of the Guardian Angels. A rather fiery and outspoken individual. Someone who has said that he is expecting to run and would potentially file a campaign committee later this month. A date that should be on the radar of anyone who's trying to get a sense of how viable some of these candidates are is actually coming up in just a week, Brian. On January 11th, that's the end of the latest fundraising period.

Anyone who's ever given their email address or phone number to any of these candidates will likely be getting emails and text messages looking for those donations because that filing deadline which is a few days later on January 15th is when we're going to really start to see how some of these candidates who announced in the fall who may have names and came out of the gate strong, we don't really know how much support they've been able to get in terms of contributions. This will be in the coming week, our first attempt at getting a sense of what that landscape looks like.

Only the candidates who had set up their campaign committees earlier, Eric Adams, Scott Stringer, and a few of the others, but those are the leading candidates right now with real strong fundraising. We'll start to get a sense of how some of these other candidates are shaping up.

Brian: All right. Listeners, what does the future of New York City depend on? What should the next mayor or the candidates hoping to be the next mayor hear from your lips about that? Meryl in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Meryl?

Meryl: Hi, thank you so much. I just want to say that I think the-

Brian: You get the first official opinion of the mayoral race on this show in 2021.

Meryl: I am unbelievably flattered and nervous, but I do want to say something I think is super important. I've lived here my whole life. I'm 56. I feel like every time the city gets in financial trouble, there's this weird trickle-down theory that comes into a city that's majority democratic and supposedly doesn't believe in that. Why do we always give chance tax breaks? Why do we always give developers tax breaks? Why can't a mayor do something that helps the poor and working people in the city who put money back in the economy immediately? Why can't we be creative? It just doesn't work the other way. It makes no sense. It's got to be done a different way.

Brian: Trickle-up economics rather than trickle-down economics.

Meryl: Thank you, yes.

Brian: How well did de Blasio do on that score by your lights?

Meryl: Terribly. He's totally beholden to developers. On my block alone, we have been fighting a splinter building that's supposed to be 27-story, on a block of mostly brownstones, a luxury building now when rich people are moving out of the city. We've been fighting it for two to three years, it's insane.

Brian: Meryl, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you very much, with the first opinion of 2021 in the mayoral race on the shelf. Fredericka in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Fredericka.

Fredericka: Hi, there. My litmus test question is, for any mayor, how well do you get along with Andrew Cuomo?

Brian: Interesting. Do you want the mayor to be subservient to Andrew Cuomo or what does get along mean?

Fredericka: Well, obviously, I don't want him or her to be subservient. I'm just looking for a good working relationship that's a lot less toxic than what we've had.

Brian: Fredericka, thank you very much. Robert in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Robert.

Robert: Hello. First of all, I'm baffled why Seinfeld has not run so far for anything, but that's not my topic. My topic is, and I see what's coming, I don't know if you can see what's coming and I hope you do, but if we don't avoid the toxic political BS that's out there and we let it get to New York City, a great city like ours, we are in trouble. We are the world's financial capital. We cannot afford to allow that toxic nonsense to seep into our city. We can't do it, whatever the stakes are.

Brian: Are you talking about the kind of political polarization that we see on the national level?

Robert: Oh, yes, that has seeped into the local level very easily. It's not like we're insulated because my key issue is we are the financial capital of the world. We're going to lose that spot if we keep playing tiddlywinks with the politicians in Washington, DC. We're going to have to step up, all of us. Every New Yorker is going to have to step up to make sure that we keep this great city a great city. We can't afford it. Now, whatever side you're on, it doesn't make any difference because there's one thing everybody's missing. It's called common good. I'll shut up now.

Brian: Robert for president. I have just one follow-up question. Don't you think Kramer would stand a better chance of getting elected than Seinfeld?

Robert: Oh, no. We keep [unintelligible 00:13:49] Kramer exactly where he is. He's Seinfeld sidekick and every great man needs a sidekick like Kramer, every great man.

Brian: [laughs] Deputy Mayor, Kramer. Robert, that was great. Thank you very much. Brigid Bergin, to take Robert's point very seriously, is blue New York susceptible to the toxic left-right polarization of the rest of the country? We did see it in that one congressional race on Staten Island, South Brooklyn, where the Democrat, Max Rose was defeated by the newly Trumpy, Republican Nicole Malliotakis. Last I see, by the way, Malliotakis has not thrown in with those Republicans in the house who are going to contest the election results tomorrow, but in any case, does this become a thing in New York, or was New York in its own universe compared to the rest of the country?

Brigid: Well, as you said at the start, Brian, I think the real wild card, the thing that blows up any conventional wisdom, those of us who cover New York City politics have at this point, is ranked-choice voting. It is going to change the way these candidates campaign between now and June. Proponents of it argue that it will reduce the amount of negative campaigning, and force candidates to really dig in and talk about issues. One of the reasons it is supposed to do that is because, again, with conventional wisdom at this point, candidates who had a base would be out there talking to their base, rallying their base, expanding it incrementally, but really trying to put together the pieces so they could find a path to victory without necessarily having to talk to the entire city.

In theory, as we will test, because we don't know yet how it will work in New York City, ranked-choice voting is supposed to blow that up. It is supposed to force these candidates to have to talk to New Yorkers across the city to address issues that voters think are important-

Brian: [unintelligible 00:16:01] that is helpful. Thank you.

Brigid: -and to be able to really force them to think differently about how they run for office. Now, the question becomes, how does that end up playing out between now and the end of June? How long does it take for us to know who actually won this primary? Then, at that point, is there a real general election question to contend with? If we think about the year 2020, and what went on over this past year, [chuckles] we started off the year with Mayor de Blasio delivering a state of the city speech that had a hashtag of save our city and that was before a pandemic and that was all about the affordability crisis, but the notion that we went from a save our city, from addressing and affordability crisis that went on to become so much more acute, brought into so much more sharp relief because of the pandemic and the complete and total upheaval that came along with that in addition to the racial reckoning that we saw filling the streets of the city and the ongoing conversations about what role police should play and the increase in crime.

These issues and where we are in June may be very different from where we are right now. To answer your original question, is this mayor's race going to necessarily be split in this kind of red, blue space with the influence of Trump playing a large role? I think it is highly unlikely, but again, what is happening in June or July really may be very different than what we're experiencing right now.

Brian: Listeners, we're talking if you're just joining us about the coming mayoral race in New York City. I shouldn't say coming, it's here because the premise is that the primary is June 22nd, that's earlier than a mayoral primary has ever been in New York. There are so many candidates in the field, peak season is now, and rather than talk about the horse race, as we try to do on this show, we try to focus on the issues primarily.

Our first question of our mayoral race coverage for 2021 is, what does the future of New York depend on according to you? 6464357280 or tweet @Brian Lehrer. Our guest is Brigid Bergin, our city hall and politics reporter who, of course, is also covering the race besides covering the current mayor. Here's a tweet that says, the future of New York City needs a mayor who is able to bring business back like the entertainment industry projected not to have tourism until 2025. How is New York City going to make it till then? Let me take a call that I think is related. Melinda, peering down I95 from New Haven. Melinda, you're on WNYC. Hello?

Melinda: Hi. I'm really glad, that you're asking these questions right now. I think that the city of New York, the future will depend on how well this vaccine is distributed because by June, people may be very angry if they have not been able to get the vaccine and added to that, having this ranked-choice voting, which is a new system will add confusion to the situation. That said, I think the candidate with the best message for New York City would be Andrew Yang, with his universal basic income.

Brian: Melinda, thank you very much. Didn't want to really go to candidates yet, but interesting. One interested in Andrew Yang right there. Those two, the tweet and the call, Brigid, were COVID-related. Are candidates and political analysts assuming the virus will be pretty much not on their watch on January 1st, 2022, inauguration day after a year of vaccinations and defeating the virus may be a top concern now, but it's actually not that relevant to choosing the next mayor, even though not everybody will be vaccinated, even the people who want to be vaccinated are not can be all vaccinated by primary day in June?

Brigid: I think, Brian, right now the conversations that the candidates are leading with are very much about recovery and rebuilding in the wake of the pandemic, which is not to say that there's an assumption that we will have entirely emerged from this crisis. I think very much what we're hearing candidates talk about is how do you think about government as a tool that can address some of the city's biggest challenges and that may continue to be the ongoing pandemic?

What we have seen coming, what we've seen most acutely is some of the most severe breakdowns in how our government provides services in the infrastructure of our public health system are being experienced in neighborhoods that already we're dealing with inequities. I do think, at least, in the democratic field right now, that is definitely a driver of the conversation, but again, as I think that caller noted, this issue right now with the vaccine distribution, if the city and state is still struggling with that in six months, you can bet that the candidates are going to come out with plans for how to do it better, faster, more effectively because they are going to have to respond to what's happening in the moment.

I think given that so many students are facing what will have been almost an entire year and a half of remote learning, what will be the education plan that defines this race? I don't think we've heard that yet. Eric Adams released 100 new policy ideas just yesterday including a proposal for year-round school. We're starting to hear some of that, but I think those mid-year policy conversations are really just beginning.

Brian: When we talk about inequality, since the caller raised Andrew Yang and his universal basic income proposal, that was one thing when he was running for president and you have the federal treasury to work with. Do you know if Andrew Yang is planning to run on a universal basic income city-wide platform using city tax coffers to give every New Yorker a universal basic income?

Brigid: I don't know the answer to that yet, Brian, and I certainly think it will be the first question he gets from all reporters when he does his first press conference with us when and if he officially launches. Certainly, lots of folks tweeting about spotting him, filming what one can only imagine is a campaign launch video. The likelihood of that seems like it is increasing and that it will happen soon.

One of the criticisms of universal basic income that is often made is in order to do that, that often means you have to cut from somewhere else. I think if that is a proposal that he is going to run on city-wide, then the question becomes where does the money come from? Obviously, one of the conversations that has been going on throughout this year is related to the funding of the NYPD. Calls for cutting more than a billion dollars, calls for entirely defunding and restructuring, overhauling that agency.

It will be interesting to see how much a proposal for universal basic income, which it's important to note, there are other candidates in the race who are offering similar ideas. That was certainly his signature idea in the presidential campaign, but how you go about funding that, and what it would mean for other city services?

Brian: So many of the comments that we're getting have to do with inequality one way or another. Steve on Twitter, "Like in the Democratic presidential primary, I want every mayoral candidate to articulate a specific policy platform about how they would achieve net-zero city-wide GHG emissions by mid-century and how they build reliance to climate change impact in vulnerable communities."

Toby Ray on Twitter, "The future of New York depends on resting it from real estate who have controlled the future of the city for decades. It depends on investing in CUNY which also relates to inequality." From Monroe on Twitter, "The future of New York City depends on universal connectivity. Everyone should have affordable access to the internet from work, school, health, to ordering groceries online. Internet is essential."

Raymond on Twitter, "The future of New York depends on holding lowering internet cost for schooling and work, increased affordable housing, lower commercial rents for small businesses, holding landlords accountable, et cetera, et cetera." You see how much inequality is top of mind and we remember that Bill de Blasio ran as the anti-inequality mayor and won on that platform in 2013. Obviously, that issue is not gone away with COVID, it's only increased.

Let me ask you this about that, Brigid. Are there lanes in this race when it comes to fighting inequality? That was how many people made sense of the presidential primary field, right? I know it's an imperfect measure because every candidate is an individual, but there was a Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and a few other progressive's lane. A Joe Biden and Amy Klobuchar, and a few others moderate's lane which had some meaning. Do we see anything like that in the mayoral race yet, particularly, when it comes to best ways to fight inequality?

Brigid: This mayoral race would need to be a superhighway for all of these candidates to have lanes. I think what we're seeing right now, at least in these early phases is we're seeing candidates with experience, candidates who are either already in elected office or experienced in government, scoop up some of those endorsements which really only matters in terms of whether or not those people are going to be out there really doing the work for you and helping you expand your social and digital media presence during a pandemic since this is not at this point going to be a traditional looking, feeling, seeming campaign.

In terms of if there were a continuum, where some of these candidates would lie on this continuum, yes, there are certainly candidates that are much further to the left. Dianne Morales, Carlos Menchaca, moving left to right. Maya Wiley is certainly in that left-leaning camp, but maybe a little bit more center. Scott Stringer. Eric Adams is probably emerging as a more centrist candidate in this field. A former NYPD officer. Has a lot of ideas about how to address issues with policing, but certainly does not believe in defunding the NYPD, but wants a department that looks like the city that it's serving and wants officers to be doing the work of policing and not moving barricades for a parade.

I think as we get further into this race, and we continue to see if people are facing threats of eviction, increasing unemployment, we are going to see the need for really innovative ideas from people who can actually tell us how they're going to do them. One of the things that really is a hallmark of the candidates in this race right now is there are so many first time candidates. People who've never run for office before, people who are brand new to government.

While that has appeal to some voters, in some other context for those folks who supported our current president, it hasn't necessarily proven to be a sure-fire way to be elected mayor of New York City. Michael Bloomberg, an obvious exception. I think the ability to put forth ideas about how to actually tackle real problems and be able to point to how you would do it is going to matter a lot to voters as they evaluate this huge number of candidates ahead of voting in June which will actually begin on June 12 with early voting.

Brian: One more call for today. Obviously, as we've been saying, this is segment number one of our 2021 mayoral race coverage here on The Brian Lehrer Show, and again, part of the premise that this is going to come up really fast. I know you can't wait for winter to be over for a lot of reasons and it feels like it's going to take a long time. The primary isn't until June but on the other hand, the primary is already in June and that's going to come up really fast. It is high season in the mayoral race. We've been asking in this segment with our Brigid Bergin, what does the future of New York depend on, not which candidate you're for?

One more, David in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. David, thank you so much for calling in today.

David: Oh, sure, Brian. Happy New Year. The list of candidates, they're going to try to outwork each other. The issue for me and I think it's the overriding issue, is crime. I've lived here all my life. I voted for Bloomberg, I voted for Giuliani, I voted for Koch way back when. I even voted for Lindsay. I'm an older guy, I live near Kensington and maybe a mile from my house on Ocean Avenue in Prospect Park, there's been shootings, broad daylight. Retaliatory gang shootings. Now the crime is starting to hit like fancy neighborhoods like Tribeca and Chelsea where this guy went on a one-hour crime spree hitting, randomly, 10 people.

Then invariably, if people get busted, oh, it's their 12th offense. The guy that attacked women at the Morgan station, four times, he attacked women. The next day, he was released, no bail. I'm a total anti-Trumper but I'm also a realist. What made New York great was, as naughty as he is now, Giuliani helped solve the crime problem. It's coming to that. Where is crime done? Where does it fall on people the most and inner-city so-called neighborhoods? Can you imagine at two in the morning, there's a domestic dispute, and Thrive which doesn't exist sends out a couple of social workers. Does that work?

Brian: The mental health program? David, let me leave it there because we're running out of time in the segment but your voice is clear. Brigid, obviously, it is a big issue. How are the candidates, if there's an easy answer to this with 34 people, balancing crime fighting and police reform differently from each other? Are there lanes regarding this yet?

Brigid: Yes, to some degree and I feel you could feel the caller's anxiety. I think that the increase in shootings and gun violence is an issue that is very real and that the candidates are talking about. Maya Wiley, her first policy proposal was a gun violence prevention plan. It is something that is very top of mind. In terms of how these candidates are breaking apart on this issue, Scott stringer was very much a proponent of cutting that billion dollars from the NYPD earlier this year and has really put a focus on talking about how to strengthen police reform. He calls for strengthening the civilian complaint review board which is the civilian agency responsible for oversight of the NYPD.

He has said that their disciplinary findings after those investigations they do when an officer has come under scrutiny, that those should not just be advisory opinions, that the commissioner must be required for implementing that discipline, and that that would be one way to ensure that officers who are not conducting themselves the way they should will be held to a standard where they need to because they know there'll be real consequences.

Eric Adams, a former NYPD officer has really talked about how the department needs to truly be diverse, that you need to have diversity throughout the ranks and particularly at the leadership level. He's talked about other ways to civilianize certain police units so that people who are trained to be police officers and trained to do the work of fighting crime are not doing paperwork. Shaun Donovan has also talked about re-imagining the role of police. Maya Wiley is closer to the defund the NYPD. She says she embraced-

Brian: The camp?

Brigid: Yes, the camp. Thank you. She says she embraces some of what the people who are proponents of that say but she is more in a-- It's a little bit of a hedge talks about rightsizing the department which I think again gets into that re-imagining. Then you have someone like Dianne Morales who is much further to the left and does believe that one of the things that the city needs to be thinking about is who is responding to certain calls.

In the case of perhaps a domestic violence call like the caller described, should there be a community first responders department? That's one of the things that she has envisioned where the response is with some social workers in addition to potentially someone who is from the NYPD who has the experience to deal with what potential crime could be committed in that situation. That is certainly a conversation that is very much happening among these candidates. If those numbers continue to go up, if there's a high profile incident, it could be a driver of which candidate is most successful in this primary.

Brian: It could be a high profile crime or it could be a high profile police violence incident.

Brigid: Absolutely.

Brian: Could drive in either direction or some mix. All right. We will leave it there for our first mayoral race segment of 2021 on The Brian Lehrer Show with our city hall and politics reporter Brigid Bergin. I'll say one last thing about this for now, which is that we are blessed on this show with tremendous access to these candidates. They want to come on because they know that you, Brian Lehrer Show listeners are voters and you are voters. I don't know that anybody's actually polled you but I think people could tell that you are voters disproportionately to your percentage in the population.

All the candidates have wanted to come on. We've been bringing the declared or likely to declare candidates on this show already at the end of last year, they're going to want to keep coming on and we're going to keep having them on. We're going to try to find meaningful ways to do that so they're not just boilerplate interviews and you get to interact meaningfully with these candidates. We will try to cover this race in good faith between now and primary day on June 22nd, when the next mayor of New York will likely be decided. Watch this space and remember this name, Brigid Bergin. Brigid, thank you very much.

Brigid: Thank you, Brian.

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