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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. If you live in New York State, happy primary day or, more accurately, happy primary day again. You'll recall that the race for governor and other offices had its primary day back in June, but the extended legal battle over the redistricting process for congressional districts and state Senate districts wound up with the New York State Court of Appeals delaying these primaries until today, so happy primary day again, New Yorkers.

You know what that means. It means it's time for our informal, unofficial, thoroughly-unscientific primary day exit poll here on The Brian Lehrer Show. Who are you voting for out of the dozen candidates in the 10th congressional district, Democratic primary in Lower Manhattan and Northwest Brooklyn, or any other race on the ballot wherever you happen to be? 212-433-WNYC is our phone number, 212-433-9692.

In that 10th district free-for-all, did you decide on Dan Goldman, Carlina Rivera, Mondaire Jones, Yuh-Line Niou, Elizabeth Holtzman, Jo Anne Simon, or any of the six lesser-known candidates who are also on the ballot, or did you vote for Bill de Blasio, whose name appears on the ballot but who dropped out of the race after deciding he couldn't win? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

If you live in the 12th congressional district from roughly 14th Street through the Upper East and Upper West Sides, you're in that new district that forced longtime House members Carolyn Maloney and Jerry Nadler to run against each other. Did you pick one of them or did you pick the challenger to both of them in that race, Suraj Patel? 212-433-WNYC. 10th district voters, 12th district voters in these Democratic primaries, who did you vote for or who will you vote for later today?

How did you decide among so many candidates who you probably basically like if you're a registered Democrat or, in the case of the 12th, have probably voted for before if you're a registered Democrat? 212-433-9692, or who's your choice in any other race for Congress or state Senate nominations, which are also on the ballot? We'll get into some of those in our area in either party, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

It's informal, it's unofficial, it's thoroughly unscientific, but it's the exit poll we got. 212-433-9692. As your calls are coming in, WNYC and Gothamist New York State politics correspondent Jon Campbell joins us for a few minutes to fill us in on some of the special interest money in some of the state Senate races, and also the one high-stakes, non-primary on the ballot in New York today.

If you watch national politics like cable news, this one's all over that this morning. It's a special election for an open House seat in a potential swing district north of the city that both parties nationally are watching very closely to see if the Democratic candidates' campaign on democracy and abortion rights proves more powerful or the Republican candidates' campaign focusing on inflation and crime and saying, "Abortion rights, eh, don't worry about it." Hi, Jon, happy primary day again.

Jon Campbell: Happy primary day again to you too, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Can we start with this high-stakes special election being seen as a national test of both parties messaging for the fall? I'll let the listeners know who are not voters up there that this is the 19th congressional district in the Hudson Valley, both sides of the river. That's the Kingston and New Paltz side and the Poughkeepsie and Rhinebeck side, or if you prefer the Thruway side and the Taconic sides of the river above I-84 and it continues north to areas both east and west of Albany, though not the city of Albany. Why is there a non-primary, a general election, on what we're otherwise calling primary day?

Jon Campbell: That's because Antonio Delgado, who served the district for three and a half years or so, became the lieutenant governor when Brian Benjamin, the former lieutenant governor, was indicted, arrested. He stepped down. Kathy Hochul, the governor, she appointed Antonio Delgado as the lieutenant governor. That opened up this special election today. It's the last special election in the country before the November election, so it's getting a lot of national attention.

Brian Lehrer: It's the swing district because it was roughly a tie in the presidential race in 2020?

Jon Campbell: Yes, it's actually gone from Obama twice to Trump back to Biden. Biden won it by about a point and a half. Yes, it's very much a swing district that has followed the trend of the country. Also, it's about 163,000 Democrats, 146,000 Republicans, so it is very, very much a swing district.

Brian Lehrer: We have the Ulster County executive, Pat Ryan. Ulster County is the one on the Thruway side, versus the Dutchess County executive, Marc Molinaro, from the Taconic side. Democrat Ryan is focusing on the issue of choice and that's why this is making national news. A Washington Post article ran on it yesterday and it focused on how it's a test for both parties' messaging on abortion rights, certainly in states like New York that still have abortion rights. Ryan is running on the phrase, "Choice is on the ballot." Here's a little bit of Pat Ryan from a recent debate.

Pat Ryan: Ultimately, I'm running to deliver for this community that has had my backing to do two things at once. One, fight to protect and defend core foundational freedoms enshrined in our constitution and our founding documents, including explicitly the right for a woman to choose, the right for access to abortions and reproductive healthcare.

Brian Lehrer: That's Pat Ryan, the Democrat. The Republican Molinaro is running like, "Choice shouldn't be so much of an issue for voters in the district." Here's a little bit of him.

Marc Molinaro: Like most Americans, I accepted that that was the law. The Supreme Court has decided otherwise, but what they did do is require now the states to make those decisions. In this state, the right to access is basically without limit. Like most Americans, I think there ought to be thoughtful limitations.

Brian Lehrer: Give me the context there. What are we hearing from those two candidates and how central is choice now an issue after the Supreme Court ruling in Dobbs?

Jon Campbell: That's the argument that you hear a lot from Democrats and Republicans in New York. We do know that in 2019, New York expanded-- well, I should say codified abortion rights in state law, made it so that you can have an abortion at any time if the health or life of the birth-giving person is in danger.

You hear Republicans say a lot of times that you can have it at any point, really, which is only true if the health or life of the birth-giving person's in danger. Listen, it is going to be viewed rightly or wrongly as a bellwether here. It's going to be viewed rightly or wrongly as a prediction as to whether this Democratic abortion platform can win in the wake of this Supreme Court decision. Whether that changed the race, we'll see come tonight actually.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, it's also a mobilization question whether Democratic-leaning voters, who might have been a little apathetic in races like this, now think something is really at stake and turn out in larger numbers. Let's touch briefly on the congressional primary in the newly-redrawn 16th congressional district, including Southern Westchester and the Northern Bronx. Progressive Democrat Jamaal Bowman is the incumbent.

Two Westchester County legislators are running against him, Vedat Gashi and Catherine Parker. Now, Gashi is running explicitly as a more centrist Democrat and has become controversial, I've seen in recent days, for a mailer showing Bowman, the incumbent who's Black, as significantly darker skin than he actually is. Gashi is white. Is Catherine Parker running as a centrist too?

Jon Campbell: In general, they're both running to the center of Jamaal Bowman, who is very much in the progressive mold and is very much aligned with your AOCs and progressive lawmakers on that front. This is the district that just has a little, tiny snippet of the Bronx and it's got all of lower Westchester, so it is very much a suburban district and urban district when you include Mount Vernon, Yonkers. It's an interesting makeup here. Whether this is a competitive race or not, there hasn't been a lot of public polling.

There's been one kind of poll by a local pollster that's been floating around, suggesting that this is a competitive race between Parker and Bowman. Listen, when you have a late August primary that a lot of people don't know about quite frankly, anything could happen. You have a three-way race with three candidates that have campaigned very hard, so turnout is a huge question here. When there's low turnout, wild things can happen.

Brian Lehrer: This is also primary day for state Senate races and you had a revealing article on Gothamist called Super PACs Spend Big on New York Senate Races to Hold Off Progressives. Listeners, if you didn't see this or hear Jon's radio version, this was about some of New York's wealthiest interests as he puts it, including real estate, Wall Street, and Madison Square Garden interests, plus even some Walmart heir's money. What policy questions are driving these masters of the universe to sink cash into New York State legislature primaries?

Jon Campbell: [laughs] Well, it depends on the super PAC. We'll start with New Yorkers for a balance to Albany. That's the one that's backed by the Walmart heir, Jim Walton. Also, billionaire Daniel Loeb is a huge backer and that is a pro-charter school pack. That is charter school supporters spending big on pro-charter school candidates. The one they're spending the biggest on is Miguelina Camilo in the 33rd district in the Bronx. She is running against incumbent Senator Gustavo Rivera, who's more to the left. She actually has the backing of the Bronx Democratic Party.

That is another redistricting that's more fallout from the redistricting mess, but that is a race that we're really going to be watching. Madison Square Garden, they're backing 10 different candidates. They haven't really explicitly said why they have been focusing on crime on some level, quality-of-life issues on some level, but they've spent about $400,000 on mailers in support of 10 different candidates. Then there's also labor unions and real estate interests that are backing Elizabeth Crowley in this 59th district. It's a wide-open race in Brooklyn, Queens, and Manhattan.

Brian Lehrer: The Madison Square Garden money. I'm just curious. Does it have anything to do with a proposed renovation of Penn station? I know a lot of people wanted Madison Square Garden to have to move so that Penn Station can be a nicer place when it's renovated, higher ceilings, and everything since, now, they're just under the ice [laughs] or under the basketball court, the hardwood. I think that ship has sailed and Madison Square Garden does not have to move, but is that an issue?

Jon Campbell: It's an issue until the Penn Station redevelopment plan is built. Until shovels are on the ground, so to speak, but another issue is the tax break. Madison Square Garden, the facility does not pay any property taxes, hasn't since 1982, and that is set in state law. I actually did ask all 10 candidates or their campaigns where they stood on that tax break. Only one of those candidates that were back, Nathalia Fernandez who's running in the Bronx. She's in a primary in the Bronx. She said that she supports repealing it, but the other nine either didn't respond or some said they don't want to repeal it.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC and Gothamist state politics correspondent Jon Campbell. Jon, thanks a lot. Hope you're not up too late tonight watching the returns come in.

Jon Campbell: Hey, it's primary night. It's going to be late. That's okay with me.

Brian Lehrer: Now, to your calls, folks, in our informal, unofficial, thoroughly-unscientific primary day exit poll, who are you voting for in any race we've just been talking about or any other race? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We'll start with Craig in the East Village in that very popular for candidates to enter, District 10 congressional primary. Hi, Craig. You're on WNYC.

Craig: Morning, Brian. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Who are you voting for and why?

Craig: I'm voting for Mondaire Jones and I was leaning toward Dan Goldman because of his reputation as a prosecutor and his performance in the impeachment trial. When I saw the debate, I was really won over by Mondaire Jones's performance in the debate and his accomplishment so far as a junior representative. I was also not impressed by Dan Goldman's performance. I think perhaps his politics may not be his metier.

Brian Lehrer: Craig, thank you very much for starting us off. David in Brooklyn in that same district. David, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

David: Thank you, Brian. I'm voting for Carlina and I'm urging all my friends and neighbors to vote for Carlina as well. She's not a carpetbagger like Mondaire, who gave up on his constituents, or Joe Manchin like Democrat like Goldman who wants to buy this election. She's the homegrown battle-tested champion for the people of Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan. She has the support of dozens of electives, unions, LGBTQ groups, environmental and animal rights advocates, disability rights, reproductive rights, and the list goes on and on. She is the candidate for New York 10.

Brian Lehrer: David, thank you very much. Well, no ambivalence there. Ralph on the Upper West Side in the 12th district. Hi, Ralph, you're on WNYC.

Ralph: Hi. Yes, I voted for Jerry Nadler because of his experience and he's somebody I've known somewhat personally. I'm very unimpressed by Carolyn Maloney. I think she's very shaky on some of the issues and Patel is very interesting. He seems like a promising newcomer, but he's very much a newcomer. I also voted for Brad Hoylman for state Senate. I met him once and he's the only name that I recognized on the ballot.

Brian Lehrer: That's one criteria. The only name I recognized on the ballot in that race. If you think, folks, that name recognition doesn't really matter, well, Ralph on the Upper West Side just proved that it is. Ralph, thank you very much. Oh, here is Assembly Member Emily Gallagher from Brooklyn calling in. Now, she is not on the ballot today herself, so she qualifies to call into this. We would not take candidates themselves calling in today and trying to get an advantage that way, but this is not an assembly primary day. That was in June. Assembly Member Gallagher, welcome to WNYC. You want to support somebody in a state Senate race, right?

Assembly Member Emily Gallagher: Yes. Hi, thank you so much for allowing me to call in. Always been my dream to be on the show, [laughs] but I am very much in support of Kristen Gonzalez. I've been really impressed by the way she's shown up in our communities. Actually, I'm not the only one. All of the elected officials in my district are supporting her and also up in Queens. It's just so important to have someone who's really standing on values when they're going to Albany.

Her values really for tenants' rights, for environmentalism, all of these things are big fights in Albany. We really need strong progressive voices there. That's what really represents this district. I've been doing grassroots activism in this neighborhood for 16 years. Kristen really showed up for all of those activists, really got to know them, really learned what the issues were on the ground in the area that she doesn't actually live in, and really worked those into thinking about what her policy positions were going to be.

I really like that. I like somebody who's ground up. As your reporter just said, her main opponent in this race has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from the real estate industry and from Trump's backpack. It's just really upsetting to me that someone like that is going to be weighing in on these issues. Please, I urge you all. Vote for Kristen Gonzalez in Senate District 59. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: That's the district that Jon Campbell mentioned in our conversation just before, where some of this special interest money, the corporate money, the real estate, or Madison Square Garden or Wall Street money is going in to support some of their interests and going overwhelmingly to Elizabeth Crowley, not Kristen Gonzalez who you are supporting?

Assembly Member Emily Gallagher: Right, Kristen Gonzalez is totally grassroots. She gets her donations only from human beings that are donating on behalf of their life in the city, not on behalf of their greed. I'm really, really excited about her. I think she really comes correct to the communities and I just think she is a breath of fresh air. I really am excited about her. I really hope she wins.

Brian Lehrer: Assembly Member Gallagher, thank you for calling in and chiming in today. Electioneering welcome here, but that, of course, applies to any of you who are voting for anyone. 212-433-WNYC, that line now open. Let's clear Line 5, where David in Brooklyn finished up a little bit ago so people can call in and keep this going on any congressional or state Senate primary in New York today. Let's go to Rockland County next, where Dolores is calling from. Hi, Dolores, you're on WNYC.

Dolores: Very happy to be. Thank you, Brian, and good morning. I'm calling in to let people know, picking up from your last caller, a breath of fresh air. Here's another one. Alessandra Biaggi. I am thrilled with what I've learned about this woman who's running for Congress up here in a very highly, massively redistricted area. We previously were represented by Mondaire Jones.

By the way, not only his two years in Congress did he show us how exceptional he was, but I knew him for about five years prior. People in the 10th district, I think it is, you're lucky. Vote for Mondaire. He's totally for the people, no carpetbagger, and stands for very progressive politics. Also in that line, going back to Alessandra Biaggi. Alessandra has come in here. Everywhere I turn around, around the county in at least the past six months, she's everywhere.

Her biggest fan, she's known for being hailed by AOC. Very progressive platform. She's fighting for voting and abortion rights, health care, gun safety. Really big coming out on these issues and trying to protect the people. Something that you brought up before, Brian, that I think the columnist that you had on, I think, from the Gothamist, Jon Campbell, wrote about. I didn't read that article, unfortunately, but precisely what he said about the massive redistricting and these strange mailers that people are getting.

If I may say, I was horrified more than any other year I've been up in Rockland County for 20 years. This year, I might have received two mailers supporting Alessandra Biaggi. I know her. People should be coming out in droves to vote for her if they really care about people, people's rights, the environment, et cetera. I have received at least five mailers from the other side touting, saying horrible things about her, almost like aligning her with the devil.

A dear friend of mine recently told me that, in fact, who's paying for those mailers against Alessandra Biaggi? The Democratic Party. Please, if anybody knows any information about this, speak up because maybe they're trying to get their other Democratic candidates in because Alessandra Biaggi might appear to be the biggest threat, but I was horrified to hear this.

Brian Lehrer: Well, we haven't mentioned the main other candidate in that race who is the incumbent in roughly that region before the redistricting, and that's Sean Patrick Maloney-

Dolores: Sean Patrick Maloney.

Brian Lehrer: -who's a very powerful member of the Democratic Caucus in Congress. He's the head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the DCCC, which means that he's actually in charge of coordinating all the races and all the swing districts around the country trying to help the Democrats hold the House of Representatives. He's a power player in the Democratic Party as it exists. Yes, Alessandra Biaggi is challenging him, who's generally progressive from the left. Do you have any policy comparisons? What is it about Sean Patrick Maloney that you think Biaggi would improve upon on a policy level if you go there?

Dolores: I'm going to come up short here, Brian, because the only thing I've read about him have struck me as negative, but I would be remiss if I tried to represent them on the air. It's more of an impression. Sorry.

Brian Lehrer: All right, but thank you very much for chiming in. You know what? Because she brought up those ads, which I haven't seen, Joe in Pound Ridge in that district and also a Biaggi supporter wants to elaborate on those. Joe, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in today.

Joe: Thank you, Brian. I have been listening to you since you started on the air. I moved into the city in '77, so we're about the same age. Anyway, thank you very much.

Brian Lehrer: Although I started years after that, but good. I'm glad you're on. Go ahead.

Joe: Okay, so I didn't mind Maloney as my representative, but then I started getting these. I didn't even know about Alessandra Biaggi to be honest, but I heard she was endorsed by AOC. Then I got these despicable ads as the woman before me had just said, and taking quotes out of context. Then it says, "Paid by Our Hudson PAC and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee." I think that's dark money. It's despicable.

The other thing I wonder about is that, why hasn't Sean Patrick Maloney said anything about this, that he's letting this go on, that he's not saying anything about these ads? It's like, "Really, you?" His lack of saying anything to me is an endorsement that says, "Okay, it's okay for people to send out despicable ads." I didn't know anything as this woman had just said that it's funded by the Democratic Party, which again is really horrible. There's one other thing I wanted to say about Sean Patrick Maloney.

Brian Lehrer: I'll try to fact-check that because those are two different things. If it's funded by the Democratic Party, that's one thing. If it's funded by an independent group that has whatever interests that wants to keep Biaggi out and is attacking her, then that might be coming from the private sector, not from the Democratic Party. I don't know. Either way, you raised the issue of whatever that language is and Sean Patrick Maloney's response to it. Go ahead, Joe. You wanted to finish the thought.

Joe: Just one other thing about Maloney. I worked with an agency that's helping Afghan refugees. Right now, their status after one year is very uncertain. There's a bill in Congress about, whatever it is, Refugee Act, which will give them a clear path to citizenship. I wrote to Patrick Maloney and I said, "What about this bill?" I got a response that was basically, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," but it said nothing about the bill.

Then I wrote him back again and I said, "Excuse me, but you did not answer the question of whether you support this bill or not. Please let me know." Of course, he didn't write back to that. I just felt like, "All right, that's typical politician." On the other hand, it was pretty soulless if you ask me. That's one of the criticisms against Biaggi as they're calling her soulless. Anyway, thank you very much, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much for your call. It's our informal, unofficial, thoroughly-unscientific primary day exit poll. Who are you voting for in any race on the ballot today for Congress or state Senate in New York, 212-433-WNYC. We'll take more of your calls and we'll talk to our Brigid Bergin, who's covering some of the races, right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As promised, we looked up a little more on those mailers. Thanks to my producer, Amina, who did that turning on a dime. From the New York Daily News, and this is about the 17th congressional district primary, Sean Patrick Maloney against challenger Alessandra Biaggi, AOC-endorsed. The Daily News says on those antibiotic mailers, a group called Our Hudson PAC has spent just over a $100,000 on mailers attacking Biaggi over past tweets critical of police and her "divisive politics."

The Daily News says the shadowy group formed just last month received a contribution of $300,000 from the National Association of Realtors and another $50,000 from a sugar refinery based in Florida, realsludge.com first reported. That's, obviously, a site that digs up political dirt, realsludge.com. That's reiterated in the Daily News. There's a little background on some of those mailers. Sean Patrick Maloney has the endorsement of Bill Clinton as one example of a prominent Democrat who lives in the district. The basic argument for Maloney, I believe, is that he is not as far to the left as Biaggi.

This is going to be a swing district, his supporters say, in the fall. It's north of the city. It's a place where Republicans could potentially win. The argument from the more centrist side of the Democratic Party is Biaggi would be easier pickings for a Republican than Sean Patrick Maloney without his AOC endorsement and things like that. That's just some of the arguments on both sides, which we've heard now from our callers, and just trying to fill in some holes. There you go. It's our informal, unofficial, thoroughly-unscientific Brian Lehrer Show exit poll for primary day number two in New York State today.

Who are you voting for out of the dozen candidates in the 10th congressional district in Lower Manhattan and Northwest Brooklyn or the 17th that we were just talking about or the 12th or any other race on the ballot, wherever you are? 212-433-WNYC. We'll talk a little about that 10th district race now and the 12th district race too that's pitting House veterans Jerrold Nadler and Carolyn Maloney against each other and against candidate Suraj Patel, a lawyer, former Obama campaign staffer, and more.

In the new district that covers both the east and west sides of Manhattan from roughly 14th Street up through the Upper East Side and Upper West Side. Hey, Brigid, I feel like today for you is like April 15th for tax accountants. Work around the clock for weeks leading up to today. Then, hopefully, later this week, you'll get some really good night's sleep. Are you ready for the crescendo of news tonight?

Brigid Bergin: Oh, I absolutely am. Primary days are my favorite kind of days. We're looking forward to really finally seeing how voters respond. There's obviously been lots and lots of speculation that we're going to see abysmally low turnout. I know Twitter's not real life, but I like seeing all the energy in social media. Voters who are out there, candidates who are out there. We'll finally see if these stalwarts are able to hold. One of these stalwarts in New York 12 was able to hold onto their seat and who the new representative will likely be heading to Washington from the 10th congressional district.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid Bergin, primed for primary day. We did have early voting, of course, through Sunday plus mail-in ballots before today's actual primary day. Can you tell anything about turnout in the 10th or the 12th? Is it dismal?

Brigid Bergin: It's really a tough thing to gauge. We know that about 10,000 fewer voters participated in early voting as compared to the June primary. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison because, in the June primary, we had statewide contests so that all registered Democrats, all registered Republicans could vote. We were selecting our nominees for the gubernatorial contests.

In these races, you only can participate if you are a member of the party that has a primary in your district. Not every district has a primary. One of the things voters should do if you're unsure-- Hopefully, at this point, you know who you're going to vote for. If you don't, go to the findmypollsite.vote.nyc. You can enter your address. Find out where your polling site is. A lot of those sites changed.

Then you can also find out who is potentially on your ballot or who is on your ballot and whether you have a contest. I think one of the things that we'll be able to do at the end of this, we'll have a better sense tonight when we have unofficial results in, is we'll be able to see how many people participated in these districts and compare that to previous elections. Again, it's not apples-to-apples because these are redrawn districts, but we'll get a sense of what the turnout was like.

Certainly, if you gauge it by the appetite for absentee ballots, there were lots of absentee ballot requests in both the 10th and the 12th. About 34,000 people requested an absentee ballot in the 12th congressional district. That's that Manhattan district. About 21,000 requested them in the 10th. Request and return are very different numbers, and so the numbers that have been returned are certainly significantly lower. About 16,000 in the 12th and about 6,600 in the 10th so far.

Brian Lehrer: For people who still have their unfilled-out absentee ballots sitting on their kitchen counters, they can still send them in today as long as they're postmarked by today, correct?

Brigid Bergin: That's absolutely right. They can send them in today. They could have someone drop it off for them at a Board of Elections office or at a poll site, but they have to be in the mail today, postmarked today, and then they must be received by the Board of Elections by a week from today for them to count.

Brian Lehrer: Speaking of postmarked, we were just talking about the controversial mailers in the 17th congressional district. Your final story, I think, on this 12th district race is about ethically-questionable mailers paid for by taxpayers, not the campaign that Carolyn Maloney sent out. What are those mailers?

Brigid Bergin: I started getting some emails from voters in the 12th district asking me about these letters they were receiving from Congresswoman Maloney that talked about issues that she supported, a whole range of issues. The first person who reached out to me had received a letter about a piece of legislation she supported called the Armenian Genocide Education Act. It's a resolution to help people learn more about the Armenian genocide with Turkey in the early 20th century.

There was a whole host of issues, letters about affordable housing for residents who live near Stuyvesant Town, letters about the Child Tax Credit. These letters are called "franked letters." The reason they are called that is because they come in envelopes that are official congressional stationery. As opposed to having a stamp in the upper right-hand corner, there is a signature from the member and that is the postage. These are letters that are a way for members to communicate with their constituents. They're totally within bounds. However, there's a--

Brian Lehrer: They're supposed to be business, right? They're supposed to be congressional business, not your campaign.

Brigid Bergin: They're supposed to be in response to a constituent's query, or if they are unsolicited, there's a limit to the number that you can send out. There's a blackout period ahead of the primary itself. If you are sending out fewer than 500 of these specific letters, you don't have to go through this very complex process to get the letters approved by what's called the Franking Commission. As I was receiving more inquiries from voters about, "What are these letters?" it's not a campaign email explicitly.

The voters who I spoke to said they were more inclined to open them because they actually stuck out from the glossy mailers that were jamming their inboxes. I reached out to Maloney's office and they said, yes, they had been sending these letters out. In fact, they had sent out 53 different form letters on 53 different topics in batches of 499 or fewer. That would be about 26,000 letters within the district. It is not the same as blanketing an entire district with campaign mail. It is within the guidelines of the rules, but ethics experts who I spoke to saw it as walking right up to that line.

Brian Lehrer: Now, what's your sense of the decision-making process for voters in the district? Is it like there are those who prefer the generational change of sending Suraj Patel to Congress and others are confused on how to choose between these two legendary lines, or Maloney and Nadler did represent different parts of the district, so maybe they each have advantages in those neighborhoods that have been voting for them for decades, West Side for Nadler, East Side for Maloney? Traditionally, the Upper West Side was a more liberal, scrappy place than the East Side with all its old money. I don't know if that applies anymore in the last 10 or 20 years as the West Side has become so expensive. What do you think?

Brigid Bergin: I think, honestly, Brian, it's a little bit of all of those things. I think that there are loyalists to both of these candidates who have been in office for 30 years that are going to stick with them no matter what. Certainly, I think that Congresswoman Maloney has tried to distinguish herself and make an appeal as the only woman in this race at a time when abortion rights are threatened in a way they have not been threatened before that her daughters have fewer rights than she did when she went into Congress.

I think that is part of her closing argument that she will say, "Don't send a man to do a woman's job." On the other side of that, I think supporters of Nadler will point to his voting record and point to where he has been historically on issues that really matter to loyal Democratic voters voting against the Iraq War, in favor of the Iran nuclear deal, and against the Patriot Act. Three of the issues that he will point to distinguishing him from Maloney. The other piece would--

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead. Go ahead. Finish the thought.

Brigid Bergin: The other piece with Maloney is, of course, some of the comments she has made historically on vaccines and skepticism that she has raised about the connection between childhood vaccines and the risk of autism she tried during the debate that I co-moderated with Errol Louis. I pressed her on that because she was a co-sponsor of legislation as recently as 2015 that would've required the National Institutes of Health to conduct a study looking at the rates of autism for those with vaccinations versus those without.

She really tries to push back on that, talks about what she's done to get COVID vaccines into the district. It is something that has dogged her throughout this race. Then with Patel, absolutely, he is running on generational change. He calls it "new F" if you want to change the vibes. [chuckles] I think that particular argument is appealing to some voters.

There are people who do feel like it's time for the Democratic Party to start building their bench. Here's someone who seems like a smart, credible candidate who could be part of that process. He's certainly not a far-left progressive, but he's someone who, in some ways, is more of a tactician than both Nadler and Maloney and offers an alternative for someone who thinks it's just time for change.

Brian Lehrer: Give me one thought on the 10th congressional district before you go, Brigid. Lower Manhattan and Northwest Brooklyn. 12 candidates running. Six of them considered leading candidates. Dan Goldman, Carlina Rivera, Mondaire Jones, Yuh-Line Niou, Elizabeth Holtzman, and Jo Anne Simon. There's no incumbent. We did a segment last week looking at the endorsements of each of the major candidates. I know you co-moderated a NY1/WNYC debate among these six candidates also. There are so many heavyweights endorsing for different ones of them.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for Mondaire Jones, The New York Times for Dan Goldman. We have Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine, the healthcare workers' union 1199, the Stonewall Democrats, Congresswoman Nydia Velázquez, and others offer Carlina Rivera. There's the Working Families Party with all its progressive cloud for Yuh-Line Niou and Liz Holtzman has Gloria Steinem in the National Organization for Women. How much do you think today is a test of how powerful different endorsers are for turning out a Manhattan and Brooklyn vote?

Brigid Bergin: I think it's really a test of when an endorsement translates to actual boots on the ground. If an endorsement is just a symbolic statement or if it means you're actually getting volunteers to go knock on doors and get people out to vote because that is what is going to win the race today, we know that this is not a time people are used to voting. This is not a time we are used to having primaries. We see that there are fewer absentee ballots that have been requested in this district. This is really going to be a race that is going to be decided by getting your supporters out to vote.

At least six of these candidates have a core group of supporters that, if they are able to mobilize and get out to vote, could make the difference. I am so excited for tonight to see how it breaks because I think there's been a lot of speculation about the last-minute infusion of money from the Goldman campaign and some of the last-minute endorsements for some of these other candidates if that will tip the balance. I think it's really all about the turnout. It's about the boots on the ground and who gets their voters out to the polls.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Brigid, thanks for your moderating and your reporting throughout this campaign. We'll be looking forward to your reports on the results.

Brigid Bergin: I can't wait.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC's Brigid Bergin. Let's go to a caller in that 10th district race as we continue with our informal, unofficial, thoroughly unscientific, and I mean thoroughly, Brian Lehrer Show exit poll on this primary day. Rita on the Lower East Side, you're on WNYC. Hi, Rita.

Rita: Hi, so I am leaning towards Goldman. I'm an immigrant, Latina voter in Carlina's district. I would love to support Carlina, but we need more of our voices obviously in DC. However, I've seen her use some divisive identity politics in our community. Therefore, I'm voting for Goldman. I know Trump falsely endorsed Goldman, but he was trying to use, I think, reverse psychology because Trump is afraid of Goldman being in DC and the way that he can deal with the right-wing Republican agenda. It's very hard because--

Brian Lehrer: Not to confuse people if they haven't heard about that before. It was a really sarcastic endorsement by Trump on social media of Dan Goldman the other day. It was an endorsement, but it was a sarcastic endorsement. It was like, "I beat Dan Goldman when he tried to be the lawyer who would impeach me and I look forward to beating him again if he's elected to Congress, so I endorse him for that reason." [chuckles] It was that sarcastic.

Rita: [chuckles] Yes, and so with Carlina, she has a track record of upzoning and gentrifying our neighborhood. There's always been these yes votes for big real estate. Her campaign donors are who's who of big New York City real estate commercial development businesses. I don't trust that. I question her ability to stand up to special interests in DC because she let our community down when she got talked into allowing the environmentally-disastrous plan, East Side Coastal Resiliency project. That environmental issue alone is enough to question Rivera's leadership.

Brian Lehrer: Goldman is the alternative that you've landed on. Rita, thank you very much. Let's go back up to the 16th district, part of the Bronx in lower Westchester where Jamaal Bowman is running for renomination. Congressman Bowman running against two challengers who are currently in the Westchester County legislature. Alice from the Mamaroneck, though she's currently in Maine, she says, is calling in on that one. Hi, Alice.

Alice: Hi, can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Alice: Okay, so I'm calling also about mailers in the 16th district in this case. Jamaal Bowman has been questionably on pro-Israel, anti-Israel, or whatever. Both Catherine Parker and Vedat Gashi are potentially trying to take a little advantage of that. Whereas supposedly, Gashi sent a mailer that had mistakenly blackened Bowman's face, Catherine Parker also sent out a mailer that was extremely--

Brian Lehrer: Mistakenly or not, right, but inaccurately had made Bowman look like a darker skin, darker than he is. Go ahead.

Alice: Correct. In this case, it was, in my opinion, extremely intentionally deceptive. The Parker mailer, part of it was devoted to her historical support for Israel. She showed a picture of herself, seemingly in a synagogue, perhaps up on the bema clearly with a family where the boy had just apparently become a bar mitzvah. She was the only woman in the picture.

There was no mother of the child, but there was a father and other children, which caused me to think, "Wait a minute. Is Catherine Parker Jewish?" which I then asked a friend of mine who said, "No, absolutely not. She's not Jewish," and this is extremely deceptive. In my opinion, that was clearly an effort to jump ahead and get the Jewish vote in Westchester, which is off considerably.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that's very interesting. Thank you very much. Staying north of the city, we had the two callers earlier for Alessandra Biaggi against Sean Patrick Maloney. We have a Maloney voter calling in now. Richard in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Richard.

Richard: Good morning, Brian. As I explained to your screener, I'm voting for Maloney. My position is that I agree with many of the progressive Democrats' positions. Socialized medicine, socialized education, I would be in favor of, but none of that is going to happen until you get enough votes to pass the Democratic agenda. The aggressive positions that some progressives have taken like AOC, in particular. AOC, I think, has lost more votes for Democrats throughout the country than she's gained by a lot.

Brian Lehrer: She is endorsing Biaggi in that race. You're afraid that that association will help that district flip to the Republican because it is considered a swing district in the fall and that's why you're supporting Maloney?

Richard: Well, yes, that's one reason. When Mondaire Jones was my congressman before and when he was elected, of course, he was on your program. You let him to sound as if he's going to be one of the very progressive ones. I sent several letters to him, explaining the position that none of that is going to happen unless you elect candidates, unless you control both Houses of the Congress. I don't want to see Kevin McCarthy being the speaker of the House. I don't want to see the Republicans in control of anything as a matter of fact. The electable candidates have to be chosen. I think there's no question that Sean Patrick Maloney is going to be more electable than Biaggi.

Brian Lehrer: Richard, I'm going to leave it there for time. Thank you very much. I guess we're hearing the what-makes-somebody-more-electable debate in all kinds of districts all over the country, not just in New York. Is it going to be turnout of a more enthusiastic base or is it going to be somebody who is seen as not from the further-left wing of the Democratic Party and, therefore, more appealing to people who might be swing voters?

Those debates obviously go on within the party and then a similar debate on the right between wings of the Republican Party, but there you have it. Very much in play in the 17th congressional district Democratic primary in New York right now. All right, we'll take more of your informal, unofficial, thoroughly-unscientific primary day exit poll calls a little later in the show. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Much more to come.

 

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