Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Former President Jimmy Carter has become convinced that deprivation and abuse of women and girls is the most serious and most unaddressed problem in the world, and results from a false interpretation of carefully selected religious texts. President Carter is here in our studio to talk about that and more, including perhaps why he sends snail mail, not email to world leaders, which he said on television the other day. You can probably guess why. His new book is A Call to Action: Women, Religion, Violence, and Power. Mr. President, an honor. Welcome to our Varick Street home.

Former President Jimmy Carter: It's good to be with you again, Brian. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: You and I have spoken about religion before in the context of your faith and your lifetime of teaching the Bible, so why point to religion now as a prime cause of what you call the most serious problem in the world?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Religion and violence are two generic causes of the abuse of women and girls around the world. It's a misinterpretation of some of the scriptures that result in abuse of women and delegation of them in the eyes of men because they are convinced that women are inferior in the eyes of God. For religious people even that are Christians, for instance, we know that Jesus Christ in His ministry and His words, all the recorded words, He never discriminated against women. In fact, He exalted women far above what they had ever been previously in history.

Even in the New Testament where St. Paul began to write to the early churches, he wrote to individuals, sometimes little tiny churches that had 20 or 30 members, and some of his verses can be interpreted either way. For the first three centuries in the Christian church at least, women played an equal role as Paul points out in his 16th chapter of Acts. After that, the men who ran the church began to say, "Why don't we select other verses which show that women are not qualified to be priests or deacons in the church?"

Brian Lehrer: Can you give me an example of either of these verses on either side of this?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes. In fact, Paul said to one of the small churches that women should never adorn themselves, that women should be silent in church, and there's even a verse that says women shouldn't teach men. On the other hand, he said that in the eyes of God, men and women are equal as are slaves and masters and as Jews and Gentiles. They're equal in the eyes of God.

As I just mentioned, in the 16th chapter that I mentioned, he lists about 25 people who were preeminent in leadership roles in the early church, and about half of them are women by name. You can interpret it either way you want to if you have a preference. There's 36,000 verses, more or less, in the Old Testament in the Hebrew text and in the New Testament so you can interpret any way you want to.

Brian Lehrer: In today's world, is this mostly a radical Islam problem? Certainly, we can find the conservative Christian and the history you were just describing, or the orthodox Jewish or other religions' practices that are sexist and cause harm to women and girls, but maybe there's nothing like the terrorist attacks and other military campaigns aimed at depriving girls an education and other things. Taliban, things going on in Nigeria, et cetera. A tiny minority of Muslims, we should say, involved in global terms, but still at a unique scale and intensity compared to other religions.

Former President Jimmy Carter: I've studied the Quran probably more than most people have in the United States that are not Muslims. When they were holding our hostages in Iran, I really made a dedicated effort to understand the Quran. I had experts come into the Oval Office and teach me about the nuances of it. It's very difficult to find a verse in the Quran that doesn't emphasize the equality of men and women in the eyes of Allah as interpreted by Mohammed. Obviously, they are interpretations of that by the Taliban and others that deprive women of equal right.

Most of the problems that afflict women and girls are not from the religious text, but sometimes that's the basis for them as I've already mentioned. For instance, I'd say the worst unknown crime against women and girls is the murder of little girls by their parents. When a girl is born, they strangled her because they want a boy.

Brian Lehrer: For economic reasons?

Former President Jimmy Carter: For economic reasons and also because some countries like China and India and others have put a limit on the total size of families. One is best, two is most so if they only have one child, they want to make sure that it's a boy. Also, they don't have social security like we do so they want boys in their families so they can earn a living to support the parents when they're old age. They look at a family in an area of poverty and they say, "We can only feed two children, so they strangle the rest of them.

There's a new movie out called It's a Girl. It was premiered in November. There's a mother in India who very proudly says in fact that she strangled eight daughters when they were born because she had to have a son. We know that in many areas if there's only one opportunity to send a child to school, they send the boy. If they have a limited amount of food, the boys get first choice.

The other thing is that there are now about 160 million missing girls on Earth because either the baby at birth or the fetus in the selective abortion have been eliminated. This has resulted in China and India in effect in a very great shortage of women to be married to men or to satisfy the men's sexual desires in a brothel and so forth. This is another ancillary terrible problem about it.

Brian Lehrer: My guest is Former President Jimmy Carter. His new book, A Call to Action: Women, Religion, Violence, and Power. Listeners, President Carter will take some phone calls here today. If there is anything you've always wanted to ask Jimmy Carter but he wasn't around your dining room table, now's your chance. 212-433-WNYC. This can be on his book, A Call to Action, or anything else from world affairs today, or even from his presidency. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Of course, we'll ask you to keep your questions brief and to the point, and we'll see if we can get some of you in here for Jimmy Carter, former president of the United States, on the phone. It's 212-433-9692. Am I right that you and Mrs. Carter left your Christian denomination of 70 years over women's issues?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes. In the year 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention deviated from its previous policy and ordained that women being inferior could not occupy the positions of pastor or deacon, or chaplain. They also even ordained it in some of the seminaries, which is the higher education level of the Southern Baptist Church, that women couldn't even teach boys in a classroom.

Brian Lehrer: It's not even just that they're not coming along as fast as some other denominations, it's that even in the post-feminist era, if you will, they went the other way.

Former President Jimmy Carter: They went the other way in the year 2000 and so my wife and I left the Southern Baptist Convention. We now belong to a Baptist church where I teach Bible lessons every Sunday, as a matter of fact. We've had women pastors and my wife is a deacon. The chairman of our board of deacons the last time was a woman and we have a majority of deacons who's women. We treat men and women equally, which I believe that Jesus Christ always exemplified and promulgated as his policy.

Brian Lehrer: Gee, If they don't want women teaching men and boys, maybe we can get more males into the teaching profession.

Former President Jimmy Carter: You certainly can in the Southern Baptist Seminary, yes.

Brian Lehrer: I guess so. [laughs] Nowhere else.

Former President Jimmy Carter: [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: Mr. President, put on your headphones and you can hear some of our callers that way. Our lines are already full at 212-433-WNYC. Maybe we can get somebody to come and help you with those headphones. Yes, we're going to get a producer in here to help untangle those phones. Oh, now you got them. All right. Kevin in Ridgewood, you're on WNYC with President Jimmy Carter. Hello.

Kevin: Yes, hello.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Good morning, Kevin.

Kevin: Hi, President Carter. My question is based upon your book and it's based upon where does the solution begin because obviously it's not a denouncing of religion, but it's looking for a change in views and how scriptures are interpreted.

Former President Jimmy Carter: That's true, Kevin. I want to point out that in the book, there are 23 different specific recommendations that I give to assuage the abuse of women all over the world. It ought to start in our own country because here, we have a terrible abuse of women and girls. For instance, in our two most respected I'd say institutions, the university system and in our military, that's where sexual abuse is most prevalent and is least brought to the attention of authorities because the college president and the deans of a college, even Emory University where I teach, or Harvard or whatever, they don't want to have a reputation in their university that sexual abuse is increasing.

We know that in the year 2000 where statistics have been promulgated, the same thing has applied in the military, 26,000 cases of sexual abuse were finally revealed when the military was forced to do so. Only about 300 of those resulted in a conviction or punishment of the rapist, which is about 1%. In a college campus, only about 4% of the total rapes are reported to the authorities, which is about one-sixth as much as takes place within the general population.

The United States has a long way to go to correct these problems. I certainly don't want to say I'm a very devout Christian. I think that if we all turn to the teachings of Christ as I just said, we would be very open and dedicated to the equality of treatment of women and would correct the problem that exists.

Brian Lehrer: Jim in Bricktown, you're on WNYC with Former President Carter. Hello.

Jim: Hello. A great honor to talk to President Carter. Over the weekend, there was online a projected piece of legislation in Iraq to allow men to marry girls as young as nine. One of the projected responses was sanctioned. I was wondering, first of all, Iraq had sanctions between the first Gulf War and the second incursion, so do sanctions work or would they make the country more isolated and culturally backward?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Jim, we have had Carter Center programs in 79 different countries on Earth, and we've gotten to know what goes on in those countries. Quite often if there's a local cultural commitment like to circumcising girls or mutilating their genitals, or to promote multiple marriages or to marry their children, an outsider who tries to make them change, quite often that's counterproductive. It's better for them to change on their own.

As a matter of fact, there are about 125 million girls who are married at an age all the way from eight years old up to early teens each year. This is accepted in many cultures around the world. I think that this is something that it would not be resolved, to answer your specific question, by any kind of sanctions or punishment from outside to that culture.

Brian Lehrer: Former President Jimmy Carter here, his new book, A Call to Action: Women, Religion, Violence, and Power. Let me touch on a few other current issues with you, if I might. Speaking of macho men and sanctions for that matter, how do you see Vladimir Putin in historical terms? You were president during the Cold War. Is he the latest expression of a century's long Russian expansionism, or how do you see Putin in historical terms?

Former President Jimmy Carter: In a way, I see him similar to what I saw Brezhnev when I was president when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and I wanted to make certain that they didn't go any further. I immediately withdrew the American ambassador, I declared an embargo against Russia, Soviet Union then. I approved the action of the Congress and the Olympic Committee to withdraw from the Olympics, which is very important to them.

Brian Lehrer: 1980 Olympics.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes, and resonated Putin. I also let Brezhnev know with a public statement that if he went any further than Afghanistan, that we would take military action to stop that invasion. Then we began secretly to give weapons to the freedom fighters in Afghanistan, which eventually resulted in the Soviets having to withdraw under Gorbachev.

Putin I think was dedicated to taking over Crimea. I don't think that any outside force could have prevented that taking place because most of the Crimeans wanted to go into the Russian orbit. but I think that now he has to be stopped. I watched with great attention last week, I think, when he made a speech saying, "We are not going to do that in Eastern Crimea."

Brian Lehrer: Eastern Ukraine.

Former President Jimmy Carter: In Eastern Ukraine. Crimea is going to be part of Russia no matter what anybody on the outside does. I think that what Putin is going to do now is try to woo the people in Eastern Ukraine who are Russian speaking and so forth with blandishments, with good trade, with loans and grants, easy traffic to and from Russia, and so forth. I think he's going to try to seduce them to believing that they will be better off in an alliance with Russia than the West.

Brian Lehrer: Some people say the current crisis is as much the West's fault for pushing NATO membership all the way to Russia's doorstep since the Cold War and boxing Russia in and making it feel defensive. Do you support that theory at all?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I can see the justification for the theory with which I don't agree. As I mentioned earlier, I believe that Putin was dedicated to taking Crimea no matter what happened. I don't think that anything could have deterred him from doing so.

Brian Lehrer: Mina in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Jimmy Carter. Hello, Mina.

Mina: Good morning, and thank you for giving me this opportunity. I'm just calling to really sincerely thank the president for being so active in helping all over the world and also being a superb human being. Thank you for this opportunity for giving to me to express my feelings towards him. I love him and God bless you and keep you safe and healthy for the rest of your life.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Thank you. That's the kind of question I like.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, you got a big smile out of Jimmy Carter, Mina.

Mina: Oh, I love him. I just love him. Kiss him for me.

Former President Jimmy Carter: [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: I'll let that be a virtual kiss. Maybe I'll give him a hug. Pamela in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Pamela: Hi, good morning. Good morning, Mr. President.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Morning, Pamela.

Pamela: My question is this, as a humanitarian, I'm wondering how you feel about the law whereby corporations have been designated as people.

Former President Jimmy Carter: I don't agree with it at all. I think one of the worst mistakes that the Supreme Court of the United States has ever made as far as political justification and equality in our country is to declare that corporations are the same as human beings. The Citizens United ruling I think has been one of the major causes of an almost total deadlock within the Congress when massive amounts of money, some of it coming from overseas, can be poured into the campaigns to be spent mostly on negative advertisements. I think it was a devastating blow to the integrity of our democratic system.

Brian Lehrer: Pamela, thank you. You told NBC on Sunday that you use snail mail, old-fashioned paper letters to communicate with world leaders because you think the NSA is spying on your electronic communication. Did you think that before Edward Snowden?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes, I did. When I was president, I was very concerned about the intrusion on private affairs of the intelligence agencies of our country. I knew what was going on as president, so I sponsored the passage of the bill known as the FISA Act, which meant that the intelligence agencies couldn't interrogate or intercede any communication between two American citizens unless applying to an individual citizen. They got a ruling from the justices that were appointed that it was necessary for security reasons. Then I think after 9/11, my FISA Act was completely distorted and liberalized so that it made possible additional intrusions.

Some of the members of the congressional intelligence committees understood but most of the members of the House and Senate didn't even know what was going on. I think that NSA and others have gone even beyond that in liberally interpreting the law that did exist. I think that the recommendations of the 40 or so distinguished members that President Obama appointed, I hope they'll be carried out. I noticed that in the news this morning, he's going to stop the recording of almost every telephone call or email message in America, which has been going on and been retained by the NSA.

Brian Lehrer: You would support that as The New York Times describes it this morning, the president would end the NSA's systematic collection of data, as you say, about Americans calling habits. Those bulk records would stay in the hands of the phone companies, which would not be required to retain the data for any longer than they normally would, and the NSA could obtain specific records only with the permission of a judge using a new court order. Is that good in your opinion? I guess you're saying it is. Does it threaten our national security at all, which is the concern on the other side?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I don't think it does, and I would go even further than that. I don't think that the NSA ought to record every message even if they turn it over to the private telephone companies. I don't think they ought to record my messages when I want to communicate with my grandchildren or with another politician.

Brian Lehrer: They're not recording the messages, right? They're recording what number called what number, when, and for how long.

Former President Jimmy Carter: If they want to go back and get that message, they can tell exactly what you said. I think that kind of thing ought to be severely limited.

Brian Lehrer: Jane in Park Slope, you're on WNYC with Jimmy Carter. Hello.

Jane: Hi. Hi, fellas. Jimmy, God bless you for the wonderful things you've done around the world for over the years. You're going to the top of heaven in my book.

Former President Jimmy Carter: [chuckles] Thank you, Jane.

Jane: Also, especially since you're touching on issues that affect women around the world, I hope that something can be done in Western countries to counter the problems I see especially for young women that are caused by the media's heavy influence on sexual activity, and also the use of younger and younger girls and young women in advertising and pornography.

Brian Lehrer: Jane, forgive me, I'm going to leave it there and get President Carter's reaction to your critique of US media.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Jane, one of the things that I haven't mentioned yet that takes place in the United States is a horrible degree of slavery. That results, indirectly at least, from what you just described. We have a terrible amount or a terrible number of young girls that are sold into slavery in this country every year according to the statistics from the US State Department, about 100,000. The worst place on America for young girls to be sold into slavery is in Atlanta, Georgia because we have the largest airport on Earth, and we also have passengers coming in from the poorer countries in the southern hemisphere in Latin America and Africa and so forth.

An average girl can be got into slavery and sold in Atlanta for $1,000. If they come from Europe and so forth, it costs up to $8,000. New York Times last week had a report that the prostitution industry in Atlanta alone was $290 million a year. This is what's happening in our country. Slavery now far exceeds what it did in the 19th century as far as the number of dollars involved, about $32 billion, and the number of people who are actually in slavery, which is now about 29 million in the world.

Brian Lehrer: We actually talked about this on yesterday's show with the author Holly Austin Smith who just wrote a book about sex slavery in the United States-

Former President Jimmy Carter: In the United States.

Brian Lehrer: -among underage girls, among children, really. When you say slavery, people will think of the plantation system before the Civil War. What does slavery in 2014 that you're referring to look like?

Former President Jimmy Carter: These are people living in bondage where they don't have any control over their own activities, and they're forced by a master who dominates them.

Brian Lehrer: In the United States?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes, in the United States and around the world, of course, but I'm talking about the United States right now. A young girl who's sold into slavery has no control over her activity. She's a victim of a brothel owner or a pimp and she's also a victim of the male customers who frequent her and pay her to do it. There's hardly a whore house or brothel in America that's not known by the existing authorities. The mayor or the city council, the policeman know when a house of prostitution exists.

Quite often, the policeman in charge of that particular block or street, they either get paid a bribe or they look the other way, or are given sexual privileges free. This is something that we need to do. In America, we're particularly vulnerable because 50 times as many prostitutes, the innocent girls quite often, are arrested as are brothel owners or pimps, or male customers. In other countries like Sweden, they now do not ever arrest a prostitute, but they do arrest male customers as well as pimps and brothel owners. That is really working in reducing the level of prostitution.

Brian Lehrer: We have just a few minutes left with Former President Carter. I know you have to go to your next appointment. In fact, is it a book appearance?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes, this will be my first book signing as a matter of fact at Barnes & Noble.

Brian Lehrer: Which Barnes & Noble? Do you know? [crosstalk] Let me see if we can get-- We're going to look it up and tell everybody where you can meet President Carter at noon, I think. Is that right?

Former President Jimmy Carter: Yes, it is.

Brian Lehrer: Just tell me briefly, on John Kerry's negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians, do you see success as possible?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I think it's possible, yes. I think John Kerry's made the most notable effort maybe in the last 15 years or so. Recently I think we've seen some signs that President Obama is supporting him in a more public way. I'm really filled with admiration and gratitude to John Kerry for his great effort.

Brian Lehrer: A big concern for the Israelis is always that if they give up military control of the West Bank, a Palestinian army or police force will not be willing to dismantle terrorist cells that still want to attack Israel. Gaza after Israeli withdrawal is unfortunately seen as a cautionary tale. What provision in a treaty do you think could address that major stumbling block?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I think the Palestinians will accept a demilitarization of the Palestinian state. I think they will also accept troops being sent in from the United States and from Europe and even from Israel to make sure that there's no violence that is organized or directed against Israel. I don't think it's necessary for the Israeli military to retain control over all of the West Bank, including the eastern area of it in the Jordan River Valley.

Brian Lehrer: One more call to wrap it up. Don in New Milford, you're on WNYC with President Carter. Hi.

Don: Hello, Mr. Lehrer. Hello, Mr. President.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Morning. Good, Don.

Don: It is a wonderful opportunity. President Carter, I voted for you. I think you're a wonderful person.

Former President Jimmy Carter: Thank you for that.

Don: The things you do for people are amazing. Your naval service, I always got very interested in that. What years did you serve in the navy, President Carter?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I served in the navy from 1943 until 1953. I was on battleships and three submarines, and I spent the last part of my career as a submarine officer.

Don: I have one more question, President Carter. Did you once say that you witnessed a UFO in Puerto Rico?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I witnessed a UFO in South Georgia, but it was an unidentified flying object. I've made reports on that a lot of times. It was just a light in the sky that looks about like the moon that changed the colors and then disappeared. We never did identify what that object was, but I don't claim that it came from outer space. I don't claim that it was a vehicle or something like that, but it was unidentified, it was flying, and it was an object.

Brian Lehrer: October 1st this year will be your 90th birthday. Considering the seriousness of the problems you document in your new book, do you think humanity has made real progress during your lifetime toward becoming a race of just and merciful beings, or are we simply who we are, no more compassionate, no less warlike because that's human nature?

Former President Jimmy Carter: I think there are more wars going on now, either bilateral wars or ones quite often initiated from America than they were before the United Nations was formed. I also think that the selective abortion of girls has resulted in a much more wide death rate among little girls than it was, say, 50 years ago. In some areas, we're making progress, obviously more equality of treatment, but I don't think that the world in general has improved itself on the treatment of girls and women.

Brian Lehrer: Former President Jimmy Carter. His new book, A Call to Action: Women, Religion, Violence, and Power. President Carter will be at the Barnes & Noble at 555 5th Avenue, that's 5th Avenue in 46th Street, doing that book signing at noon. Good luck on your commute and such an honor to have you in our studio here at WNYC. Thank you very much.

Former President Jimmy Carter: I'm on the way. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Coming up next, we'll look at a new study that seems to suggest that parents helping their kids do their homework and other parental involvement in your children's studies does not help them in school. We'll see what they argue. Stay with us.

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