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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Yes, one of the highlights of the inauguration for so many people was the poem. Amanda Gorman, America's first Youth Poet Laureate, and our youngest inaugural poet ever at age 22, read her poem written for the occasion, The Hill We Climb. The power of the poem and the power of the poet, who references her desire to even become president herself one day, have really impressed anyone who watched her reading or some of her interviews before or after, also very, very impressive. We thought you might like to hear the whole thing again. It's about five minutes.

We have the luxury for this in our longer-form show. We're going to replay it now, and then talk about the poem, and the poet, and the moment she was trying to meet with poet and essayist Elizabeth Alexander, who recited one of her poems, some of you will remember, at Barack Obama's first inaugural. Here it is, The Hill We Climb by Amanda Gorman.

[applause]

Amanda Gorman: Mr. President, Dr. Biden, Madam Vice President, Mr. Emhoff, Americans, and the world;

When day comes we ask ourselves,

where can we find light in this never-ending shade?

The loss we carry,

a sea we must wade

We've braved the belly of the beast

We've learned that quiet isn't always peace

And the norms and notions

of what just is

Isn’t always just-ice

And yet the dawn is ours

before we knew it

Somehow we do it

Somehow we've weathered and witnessed

a nation that isn’t broken

but simply unfinished

We the successors of a country and a time

Where a skinny Black girl

descended from slaves and raised by a single mother

can dream of becoming president

only to find herself reciting for one

And yes we are far from polished

far from pristine

but that doesn’t mean we are

striving to form a union that is perfect

We are striving to forge a union with purpose

To compose a country committed to all cultures, colors, characters and

conditions of man

And so we lift our gazes not to what stands between us

but what stands before us

We close the divide because we know, to put our future first,

we must first put our differences aside

We lay down our arms

so we can reach out our arms

to one another

We seek harm to none and harmony for all

Let the globe, if nothing else, say this is true:

That even as we grieved, we grew

That even as we hurt, we hoped

That even as we tired, we tried

That we’ll forever be tied together, victorious

Not because we will never again know defeat

but because we will never again sow division

Scripture tells us to envision

that everyone shall sit under their own vine and fig tree

And no one shall make them afraid

If we’re to live up to our own time

Then victory won’t lie in the blade

But in all the bridges we’ve made

That is the promise to glade

The hill we climb

If only we dare

It's because being American is more than a pride we inherit,

it’s the past we step into

and how we repair it

We’ve seen a force that would shatter our nation

rather than share it

Would destroy our country if it meant delaying democracy

And this effort very nearly succeeded

But while democracy can be periodically delayed

it can never be permanently defeated

In this truth

in this faith we trust

For while we have our eyes on the future

history has its eyes on us

This is the era of just redemption

We feared at its inception

We did not feel prepared to be the heirs

of such a terrifying hour

but within it we found the power

to author a new chapter

To offer hope and laughter to ourselves

So while once we asked,

how could we possibly prevail over catastrophe?

Now we assert

How could catastrophe possibly prevail over us?

We will not march back to what was

but move to what shall be

A country that is bruised but whole,

benevolent but bold,

fierce and free

We will not be turned around

or interrupted by intimidation

because we know our inaction and inertia

will be the inheritance of the next generation

Our blunders become their burdens

But one thing is certain:

If we merge mercy with might,

and might with right,

then love becomes our legacy

and change our children’s birthright

So let us leave behind a country

better than the one we were left with

Every breath from my bronze-pounded chest,

we will raise this wounded world into a wondrous one

We will rise from the gold-limbed hills of the west,

we will rise from the windswept northeast

where our forefathers first realized revolution

We will rise from the lake-rimmed cities of the midwestern states,

we will rise from the sunbaked south

We will rebuild, reconcile and recover

and every known nook of our nation and

every corner called our country,

our people diverse and beautiful will emerge,

battered and beautiful

When day comes we step out of the shade,

aflame and unafraid

The new dawn blooms as we free it

For there is always light,

if only we’re brave enough to see it

If only we’re brave enough to be it

Brian Lehrer: With that, Amanda Gorman joins the ranks of such distinguished poets as Robert Frost, Maya Angelou, and my next guest, Elizabeth Alexander, in rising to the challenge of finding the poetry in our political life and marking this peaceful, was it peaceful, transition of power that we can no longer take for granted. Elizabeth Alexander, for your background folks, read her poem, Praise Song for the Day at the first Obama inaugural. She's now the president of the Andrew W Mellon Foundation and author of the memoir, The Light of the World.

Some of you will remember she was last on this show in June for her New Yorker magazine essay, The Trayvon Generation. Elizabeth, always great to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Elizabeth Alexander: It is wonderful to be with you again, Brian. Thank you so much for this invitation.

Brian Lehrer: Wow, that poem. What were your thoughts as she read?

Elizabeth Alexander: I tell you, listening to it again now, it was flawless. She was flawless. Here's what I want to say. I have a lot of things to say. The first thing I want to say is that Joe Biden and Dr. Jill Biden, because I've read that she had heard Amanda Gorman read before and was a part of this decision, did the nation a huge service, by deciding that there would be an inaugural poet. Remember, there doesn't have to be one.

There's no law. There have been very few in our history. Amanda is now the sixth. Number one, thank you for a poem because, on this day, after all the strife we've been living through, this acknowledgment that the language of poetry is something that we need in order to aspirationally move us forward on such a day, is a wonderful thing. Then, that they chose Amanda Gorman. Someone who is young, and brilliant, and vibrant.

I marvel at her poise, at her grace, at her confidence, at her rising to the occasion, and standing before the entire world, to show us that young people have so much to say and to offer to our country moving forward. First, having a poem, then choosing a young poet; Amanda being the first National Youth Poet Laureate. There have been four since then. It's a very important position. Then finally, to what she did, that she gave us a poem that was rich with reference, that was a political poem, in the sense that she really engaged the politics of the moment and the day, a poem of ideas.

I think that, primarily, it's a poem of ideas, and we can talk about a number of them that are in here, that really meditates on the things that we need to think about moving forward. Small wonder that with all of that, we have something that caused a complete sensation. She gained-- I don't even know. By four o'clock, she had more than a million new followers. Which is important, not so much for Amanda Gorman per se, but for the art of poetry, for people understanding that this art form and words presented in this way are something that we need. That's just to begin.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take a few of your thoughts. I know many of you are bursting with them. You can call in 646-435-7280. For Elizabeth Alexander, 646-435-7280. I understand she sought your advice. What did she ask, and what did you tell her?

Elizabeth Alexander: Yes, I've known Amanda for several years. I have done readings with her and talked with her about her education, and her life, and her writing, and her plans. She is one of many, many, many young people, young writers who are dear to my heart and for whom I have all the time that they need, because I think that that's what we're supposed to do, is pass it on.

We had a long conversation, where we talked about all kinds of things about what it meant to be a representative of the tribe, if you will, and that when you stand up there, you're not alone. You bring with you poets living and dead. You bring American poetry with you. You bring all of the writers who helped you learn how to make a poem, in the first place. That it's not about the individual, it's about representing poetry and bringing its force to the fore. We talked about things large and small.

We had to talk about clothes because standing up there, and she had given beautiful thoughts, and was dazzling, and bright, and full of life and light in her sunshine-colored coat up there, which I think was so beautiful and important. I wanted to speak to her because, again, she was someone who was already in my circle of young mentees, but also, before I delivered my poem, Maya Angelou, who I did not know, called me on the phone.

We had a conversation that I almost can't remember in the details because it just washed over me as a benediction. To have that time to talk with someone who, most importantly, I said, "You've got this, baby. You've written this poem. Get up there, breathe, and offer it. You have got this." She's a very poised person. I think that it was wonderful.Then to be in touch with her in Indian [unintelligible 00:13:04], to know that she was widely reported.

Brian Lehrer: I want to go to Sean on line six. Is Sean ready to go? Can I take Sean here in Manhattan, who seems to be calling with a good point? There you go. Sean, you're on WNYC with Elizabeth Alexander. Hi.

Sean: Hey, Brian. A great fan of yours and a great fan of Elizabeth Alexander. I loved your opening remarks, Elizabeth, for you talked about her poem and what it meant. I was listening with my 13-year-old eighth grade daughter yesterday. It just happened to coincide with her lunch break on an online school. We watched in astonishment at this young woman's brilliant artly. I have to say that it brought tears, as it did again just now. There were two lines, two sections that I really wanted to point out.

One was, first, she had this wonderful metaphor, merging might with rise and rise with love. That's such a strong use of language in such a condensed way, which, of course, was what poetry is all about. Then the last section, I want to ask Elizabeth for her thoughts about this. The last section was a series of inspirations really. Just let us do this, let us do that. It's one of the most powerful pieces of public artly that has maybe ever been expressed in the United States at a public event. They were my comments. Thank you for bringing this back to us, Brian. It really is a powerful and very emotional moment.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. I hear the emotion in your voice. It's so wonderful that you express it. Let's see. I think he was referring at the end there to;

"So let us leave behind the country

better than the one we were left with

Every breath from my bronze-pounded chest,

we will raise this wounded world into a wondrous one

We will rise from the gold-limbed hills of the west,"

et cetera. Elizabeth, your reaction to Sean?

Elizabeth Alexander: Thank you so much, Sean, for your own analysis as well. I'm glad you pointed to that place because there are all kinds of wonderful literary and cultural references in that poem. I think that she is invoking Maya Angelou, who I know has been an influence on her, the poem, And Still I Rise. She goes from raise to rise, the repeated, "We will rise, we will rise." The way that that is a wonderful evolution from the Angelou, I Rise, is that that I has become a we because of the occasion that she's writing for.

I think that, to other references, the one that you mentioned, if we merge mercy with might and might with right, that structure is straight from the Blacks harmonic tradition, that has permeated so much of African-American public speaking. I think that's what she's pulling on there. She has a reference to Hamilton. She's spoken about that before, "History has its eyes on us." The Hamilton poem, "History has its eyes on you," again, from the singular to the collective.

Then just one other, there are many, but worth mentioning, "We the successors of a country in a time where a skinny Black girl descended from slaves and raised by a single mother can dream of becoming president." Well, what are we hearing there? We're hearing Barack Obama's 2004 convention speech. The hope of a skinny kid with a funny name, who believes that America has a place for him too. The unpacking and the studying of this poem, there's so much that will keep us happily engaged for a very long time.

Brian Lehrer: There are a couple of echoes of Hamilton in there. I saw that she was extra thrilled when Lin-Manuel Miranda tweeted praise for her reading afterwards and she tweeted that. Sharon in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sharon.

Sharon: Hi, I'm honored. I watched it with my three-year-old granddaughter in my lap. She likes to use a microphone at three. She likes to express herself with words. With the distance learning factor, I'm a former teacher and my daughter is a principal, we have lost the art of talking, children performing with words and reciting poetry. When I grew up, we had to recite poetry for assembly. My granddaughter was amazed, and very quietly listened to this young woman. She had such an impact on me. I just cried through the whole thing, but I also looked at the effects she had upon my three-year-old granddaughter. It's exceptional.

We must encourage young people to do more spoken word performances and to speak, because now with distance learning, they are not used to having the camera on them all the time, but now they are individually being singled out to learn. We need to take advantage of that.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much. The performance, as you mentioned at the beginning, Elizabeth, not just the poem was so outstanding. I really keyed on that as we were listening back to it, almost like a comedian has to get the timing exactly right. She had this five-minute extended reading. She obviously must have rehearsed and rehearsed because the rhythms that she brought to it were really so precise and changed through it as the way she wrote it. It struck me that that must've been the case. Just her reading, her performance was so effective. Nora in White Plains, you're on WN-- Go ahead.

Elizabeth Alexander: Just to say to Sharon's wonderful comment about young people and reciting poetry, it is so important. When you take a poem in and memorize it and then give it back out again, that's part of air-reading a poem with the life force that it is meant to have. Amanda's experience in the spoken word world and that kind of performance served her very well yesterday. I think that what is exciting is that we have something that was an exquisite performance, if you also even look at the physicality of it when you watch her and the way that she used her hands.

What we're learning now is that we have something on the page that also has enduring value. I think that's actually the hardest thing to do.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, to have both like that. Let's sneak in one more before we run out of time. Nora, in White Plains, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nora?

Nora: Hi. Thank you. I agree with so much of what has been said, and it will stay with me for a very, very long time, especially maybe that last couplet. I find myself hesitating to raise this, and that's a can of worms in itself. I was also struck by how this very young woman poet celebrating, least of all, the election of the first woman to national office, use the term man to refer to humanity, and talked about our forefathers rather than our ancestors. That really did hit me too. I'm not a poet. I have written poetry. I wonder about that and I can't help wishing that there was language that requested all of humanity for those things.

Brian Lehrer: Inclusive language. "We will rise from the gold-limbed hills of the west. We will rise from the windswept northeast where our forefathers first realized revolution." Did that strike you at all, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Alexander: Yes, it did. I'm so glad that you brought that up. I think that one of the big challenges, I take it not so much as a critique of the poem, and that this is a young poet. This is a poet whose craft, and ideas, and thinking will continue to evolve. She's just at the beginning of her career. To me, that also speaks to the kind of language that, actually, poetry can help us get to because poetry is theoretically the most inclusive language of all because of the breadth and the capacity that it has. Also, something to mention that's really important is, again, there are so--

American poetry right now, and I could name a million names. I'll just call the name of Joy Harjo, our grown-up poet laureate, as opposed to our youth poet laureates, is one among so many American poets with so much language, so much vision, so much power. I hope that this moment that Amanda has carried with so much power and grace becomes a moment for us to turn to the incredible riches of our poets because that's what it's all about. It's about the art form and what it offers political life, civic life, and all of us.

Brian Lehrer: Elizabeth Alexander, poet, educator, memoirist scholar, and president of the Andrew W Mellon Foundation, I can't think of a better person to have come on and discussed Amanda Gorman's amazing poem and amazing reading with us than you. Thank you so much for gracing us with your presence today.

Elizabeth Alexander: Oh, this was wonderful. Thank you so much, Brian. Have a wonderful, wonderful, bright light day.

Brian Lehrer: You too.

 

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